Alonso Moving On

[Sakae 0]

6 hours ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

... I just don't understand why it's fair to criticise anyone when they don't deliver (Renault, Ferrari, etc) but not Honda, Honda should take criticism on the chin and try to do a good job and prove their critics wrong, when they will have done they will be in a position to take offence at what Nando says, now they don't have that luxury, now they should be ashamed of their failures and work hard to rectify them 

Honda is not immune to criticism, and lord knows they really got earful of it since they came back. To use however your analogy, if someone is shielded by old wives tales, than it our St. Freddy. From Singapore to errors on the track, nothing sticks. That's impression I have. (Now I am waiting for maure's customary: haters hate...shrug)

I think Honda is exerting all its might to do precisely that. If I may, also would suggest for some more intelligent critics ought to compile comparative development time-lines (I have no doubt that you can do that), place it into context of regulatory restriction, and maybe you become converted into more understanding (if not forgiving) soul. Honda is not playing safe, they are after win. I have no problem with it. It's wonderful. Without failure there is no progress (/cliche). 

 

[radical-one 0]

3 hours ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

do you expect Nando to work for free? they all get paid you know... the difference between Nando and, say, Hamilton or Vettel is that Nando is asked to race against F1 cars using a GP2 engine, Hamilto and Vettel riceive both a lot of money and a good engine

Not my problem

[Emmcee 0]

Without failure there's no progress? Wise.

[radical-one 0]

54 minutes ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

Nando is going to race at Indy with an Honda powered car, excellent news, I hope that he can have a chance of doing well, he deserves it

Or he can hit the wall at over 220MPH and put himself out of action for the rest of the F1 season.

Good thing Button is there to replace him. I like Jenson.

[Insider 0]

Jens is a must for Monaco otherwise there will just be a pile of carbon fibre in the other garage. 

[radical-one 0]

And? Do you have a point ?

[Sakae 0]

Quote

The 35-year-old Spaniard will be desperate to leave McLaren, but Mercedes seems unlikely – Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen are both signed up at Red Bull until the end of 2018 – while his bridges have surely been burnt at former team Ferrari. As one McLaren insider recently said: “I think Fernando will have to stay here because there is nowhere else for him to go.”

per GP247

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

16 hours ago, radical-one said:

Or he can hit the wall at over 220MPH and put himself out of action for the rest of the F1 season.

sometimes we read silly things in this forum, I think that you have sunk even further, this is the saddest thing that I have seen in a long time

 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

16 hours ago, radical-one said:

Not my problem

no, exactly, your problem is national pride, nothing to do with racing, isn't it? why doesn't Honda hire a japanese driver if national pride is so important? we shall see if he does a better job than Alsonso 

[radical-one 0]

42 minutes ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

no, exactly, your problem is national pride, nothing to do with racing, isn't it? why doesn't Honda hire a japanese driver if national pride is so important? we shall see if he does a better job than Alsonso 

Wrong. I not even Japanese by blood. And I am not racist and I don't care about your national pride issues. You can have all your national pride issues to yourself. I need nothing of that issues. It's business issues duh ! 

My point is -  It wasn't Honda who is bad mouthing Alonso, it's the other way around. Even if it's wasn't Alonso, if someone talks badly to their employer like he did, then  I have business practice criticism.

Get your facts straight then we can talk.

For now - bye.

 

[radical-one 0]

44 minutes ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

sometimes we read silly things in this forum, I think that you have sunk even further, this is the saddest thing that I have seen in a long time

 

Why? Do you know Indy at all? Did you know that hitting the wall happens all the time ? Are you silly or naive not  to know that?

Here; 

Barrichello warns Alonso: Expect the unexpected

You don't have to reply or post on my comments if it doesn't agree with you,.Not because someone  else has another / different view doesn't mean I am lower than you.

I never attack you personally so you are the one who starts these sillyness. My comments are to F1 drivers. teams, etc but never to anyone here so -  Gimme a break !

As far as I am concerned, I am allowed to give my comments here regarding F1 and everything around it but I never attack anyone to belittle them. It's not my thing so don't you ever try that on me.

Guys like you who attacks members here personally are the reason why this Forum has less members.

 

[Sakae 0]

46 minutes ago, radical-one said:

I not even Japanese by blood.

Really? I thought that you and maure are both Japanese. (Nagoya-Tokyo axis). 

[Massa 0]

Honda dominated the Indy 500 last year, and have the upper-hand overall in the IndyCar Series in 2017.  The car Alonso will be driving was easily one of the fastest in last year's 500, but the idiot driver wrecked with his teammate (also a big contender) on the pitlane.

So, if Alonso is not a factor for the win, it will not be because of the car.

I find it cool, because the Indy 500 is the only race I actually care about (I watch a wide variety of races—F1, MotoGP, IndyCar, NASCAR, sports cars, V8 Supercars...I don't watch the full season of anything, but I do watch at least one or two races from just about anything that's televised here—but I don't actually care.  Those are just for passing some time.  Indy, that one makes me emotional).  I find it bizarre, but cool.

And as others have pointed out, perhaps the weirdest thing is this: that McLaren is partnering with Michael Andretti to do this, even though Michael still insists foolish bulls##t about McLaren sabotaging him (no, Michael—you were just uncommitted to F1 and not as good as you thought you were).

[Sakae 0]

I've watched Indy 500 many, many times until it dawn on me, that people who were of opinion that race starts last 80 km were onto something. Then suddenly interest vanished, and never returned. In contrast racing like we have seen in China last weekend - now you are talking; not perfect, but pretty good one!

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

8 hours ago, radical-one said:

 You can have all your national pride issues to yourself. I need nothing of that issues. It's business issues duh ! 

My point is -  It wasn't Honda who is bad mouthing Alonso, it's the other way around. Even if it's wasn't Alonso, if someone talks badly to their employer like he did, then  I have business practice criticism.

 

 

a couple of things:

1) I am not Spanish so I there's not really much in terms of national pride here (and since I'm Italian and have been rather critical of Ferrari in the past I really don't think that it applies to me)

2) Alonso did not bad mouth Honda, Alonso said that they have the performance of a GP2 car on a straight line which is a fact. the same things have been repeated over and over again by Boulier, Vandoorne, etc, but you pick only on Alonso

3) you said that come the Japanese GP the Japanese fans will boo Alonso and defended this postion when people called it into question

4) finally, since you're at it, you seem to imply that it's ok if a driver slams against a wall at over 200mph (that's for being a good sport...), risking his neck in the process, and why you say that? because Alonso dared say something that is not how marvellous Honda is, how fantastic their PU has become and how beautiful all Honda's staff are 

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

8 hours ago, radical-one said:

Get your facts straight then we can talk

 

I do get my facts straight but sometimes it's a waste of time, isn't it?

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

9 hours ago, radical-one said:

My point is -  It wasn't Honda who is bad mouthing Alonso, it's the other way around. Even if it's wasn't Alonso, if someone talks badly to their employer like he did, then  I have business practice criticism

there's one final thing that I want to say about this saga: have you noticed that no-one at Honda seem to share your aggro against Alonso? all they seem to be doing his try to make him happy, they seem to want to keep him for the future, they are happy to let him race at Indy (and I'm sure that they're footing the bill), they never say anything against him (and in fairness he's never said anything remotely against Honda, all he said was that they have no power), all in all I'd say that the good people at Honda are very happy with Nando, even grateful if I may say so, so what makes you so upset with him? Don't you think that maybe the folks at Honda know better than you what is really going on?

[Sakae 0]

If I can chime into this (very hot) exchange, then I would suggest, we need understanding of cultural differences. Alonso in all likelihood is being considered as a Honda's customer, rather than an employee. Honda, being happy or not is another matter. We all should know by now that Japanese business will bent backwards for their customers, and they take on the chin without complains more than a regular guy from the EU would. As someone who worked with Japanese for couple of decades in dual roles, I think McLaren's comments, true or false are being tolerated, however hurting their pride while contribute zero value to this project. Honda will do their utmost whether anyone is arrogant, or just waits patiently.

Let's drag Ayn Rand into this, shall we?

Quote

A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.

Honda, and their new PU design is precisely image of such creative man. Beating others is a byproduct for them, not an objective. Objective is to built a best PU there is. That's how I see them, but whether RD should have had better understanding who is his partner, that's another chapter altogether.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

45 minutes ago, Sakae said:

If I can chime into this (very hot) exchange, then I would suggest, we need understanding of cultural differences. Alonso in all likelihood is being considered as a Honda's customer, rather than an employee. Honda, being happy or not is another matter; we all should know by now that Japanese business will bent backwards for their customer, and they take on the chin without complains more than a regular guy from the EU would. As someone who worked with Japanese for couple of decades in dual roles, I think McLaren's comments, true or false are being tolerated, however hurting their pride while contribute zero value to this project. Honda will do their utmost whether anyone is arrogant, or just waits patiently.

Let's drag Ayn Rand into this, shall we?

Honda, and their new PU design is precisely image of such creative man. Beating others is a byproduct for them, not an objective. Objective is to built a best PU there is. That's how I see them, but whether RD should have had better understanding who is his partner, that's another chapter altogether.

very interesting Sakae

[Massa 0]

5 hours ago, Sakae said:

I've watched Indy 500 many, many times until it dawn on me, that people who were of opinion that race starts last 80 km were onto something. Then suddenly interest vanished, and never returned. In contrast racing like we have seen in China last weekend - now you are talking; not perfect, but pretty good one!

The people of that opinion are, plainly, misled by the dumbed down presentation of American racing.  If you ever get a chance to look at the advanced, real-time analytics that are out there, you'll see that what happens early on actually does matter to the strategy.  Alexander Rossi won the race on a fuel strategy last year—and that started well before the TV coverage noticed it with 4 laps to go if you look at the data that had been captured in real-time.  So, while the opinion makes sense because TV covers the race with so little intelligence to try to appeal to the "I WANT MORE WRECKS" American fan, there's something way deeper.

Of course, that the 500 is the most meaningful, important race to me personally does not mean it is the most entertaining.  No one race is, year-after-year, the best to watch.  Indy's just the only one that has any meaning at all to me.  The rest are pointless exercises in seeing who wins while corporate partners try to sell services and software to each other.  Fun to watch, but without any meaning.  Indy actually gets at something more—for me.  And that has more to do with my personal life, my family, etc. than anything too inherent to Indy.

It'll be fun to see Alonso race there, but it will suck listening to F1 fans whine about how IndyCar is inferior and listening to IndyCar fans boast about how their race got Alonso over Monaco.  Both series' fans suck.

[Sakae 0]

By sheer coincidence I was in the area, and got to attend inaugural NASCAR Brickyard 400 in person. Other than that, CART and the F1 were both my thing for several years side-by-side, but for some reason my interest in American style racing dissipated/vanished. From hard core nut watching it all from qualy to pre-race, post-race, whole race, today I do not understand how could I survive people like Paul Page and alike. Constant yapping, blitz, crashes, etc. - just tooooo much of monotony what was supposed to impress. Numerous lead changes is just as boring as no changes. No offense, but cheap stuff that is oversold. Whole 500 miles race appeared to me as struggle for survival having it as its predominant strategy. Bobby Unser used to say, trick is to be sure that last 20 laps you are on a lead lap, close to a lead car, and have enough gas to make it.

Take in contrast Vettel on the hunt to catch the lead - will he do it, tension, nail biting manicure done, love it.

 

Alonso, as you probably know by now, is not my thing. Quoting second time today Ayn Rand - "I do not think of him, and more I see, less I think ". Ayn was of course talking about then president Regan, but how fitting in my case as well.

I rest my case. 

[rodders47 2]

WHY does everyone think that Alonso is so GREAT ????  Like what has he achieved to be so high up on the pedestal that other drivers have achieved ?

[maure 1]

1 hour ago, rodders47 said:

WHY does everyone think that Alonso is so GREAT ????  Like what has he achieved to be so high up on the pedestal that other drivers have achieved ?

Astute observation, my good fellow.

All anyone needs to do is go to the F1 website, check the standings, and see that, as always, Alonso is behind his teammate.

Meanwhile, the F1 legerdemain carries on...

[Sakae 0]

@rodders47 WHY does everyone think that Alonso is so GREAT ????

Not everyone does. There is a lot of narrow thinking around some of the commonly uses of yardsticks for greatness. Moreover, Alonso wears underwear made of teflon. Unbeatable combination.

[Publius Cornelius Scipio 0]

10 hours ago, Massa said:

The people of that opinion are, plainly, misled by the dumbed down presentation of American racing. 

It'll be fun to see Alonso race there, but it will suck listening to F1 fans whine about how IndyCar is inferior and listening to IndyCar fans boast about how their race got Alonso over Monaco.  Both series' fans suck.

each series is different and there is nothing easy, I remember a few years ago (well, several years ago for that matter) when Mika Hakkinen agreed to race a few rounds of the Porsche Carrera Supercup, everyone around him was telling him that he was crazy and a massive gamble as notwisthstanding the fact that the Carrera Supercup had been designed with wealthy amateurs in mind there were some very tough specialists and it was a very difficult kind of racing for someone coming from single seaters, the fact that he did well (if Iì'm not mistaken he won a couple of races) cemented his reputation and got a drive with McLaren. All this to say that I fear that it will be very very tough for Alonso, he has never raced those cars, he's never raced in an oval, he doesn't know the team, the tactics, etc, IMHO at best 2017 can be a learning year for him at Indy