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lipstick79

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HONDA TO TEST NEW ENGINE IN BAHRAIN NEXT WEEK

This was planned for some time, thus I am not sure whether countermeasures related to fuel-bladder issues as discovered in Barcelona will be implemented in this spec. I would be (pleasantly/admirably) surprised if they will be. I am actually not a fan of McLaren, but guys at Utsunomiya centre treated me to an excellent cup of coffee, thus I feel obliged to wish them well. :lol:

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That's exactly what I was thinking sakae, hopefully this is the improved spec alonso was talking about that suposidely was in Australia or coming to Australia.

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People are forgetting that late last year the Honda engine was actually not to bad in top speed. Alonso got a couple got real good results based on speed and so did jenson. This year a completely new engine I beleive yet again.

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Quote

Honda hopes new spec engine will cure vibration issues

...might be available in Canada

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22 hours ago, Emmcee said:

People are forgetting that late last year the Honda engine was actually not to bad in top speed. Alonso got a couple got real good results based on speed and so did jenson. This year a completely new engine I beleive yet again.

It bugs me that they went radical and not evolutionary... I mean really!!

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Yeah I don't understand why they went went an entirely new engine for this season.

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A year was 2016. Honda didn't want just convergence with a front leader, then MB only, but to get ahead of them. Last year engine deemed to have limited potential, a reason behind the decision to start with a clean sheet of paper. This is my understanding pieced together from various interviews with Honda's leading engineers. 

It came as a surprise to many people, not just to Honda, how much advancement not only MB has made, but also Ferrari; a team almost everybody - brainwashed by media "self appointed experts" - has written off. Quoting Yusuke Hasegawa: "we have expected them (MB) to make a progress (in 2017), but unfortunately we had underestimated how much they advance".

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Re:....McLaren might do something drastic and severe ties with Honda.
>That will NOT happen in, the foreseeable future. Whatever happens
NOT just because of the £100M payment  negotiated by Ron but, the
BIG picture - THAT is where the BIG money IS.
Via the LAST Honda-McLaren collaboration, Mclaren HAVE negotiated
some difficult times   Peugeot ...  Then the GOOD times with Mercedes, before
the Mercedes works team  
If you do the same as everybody else - U R the same as everybody else 
Don`t be the same,  be better   !!!

                                                                     

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16 minutes ago, Sakae said:

Milestone decision.

I am not sure what Honda thinks of it, but a helping hand is helping hand.

I personally hope that something like this can be approved by he powers that be, we need proper competition in F1, talents like McLaren and Alonso are currently wasted. If something like this will be passed I presume that they will try to keep it as quiet as possible because it would look really really bad for Honda. F1 needs Honda to succed, it must be possible for new manufacturers to enter the sport with a reasonable expecation of reaching some success within a few years, Honda decided to follow the stubborn way rather thn the reasonable one as so F1 and as a  consequence Honda's problems have become F1 as whole problems, IMHO it's a situation that needs to be addressed asap, it can't go on forever, McLaren Honda must be allowed to either win a race this season or at least get a few podium finishes, the current situation is bad for the fans, is bad for McLaren, is bad for the drivers, is bad for F1 in general, and it is also bad for Honda. If Honda can't do their homework someone needs to step in and do it for them

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Confirmation of (unspecified) changes within Honda's organization: by F1Today

Quote

Honda's Yusuke Hasegawa said: "We are doing everything we can. We are using external sources and have been changing our organization since the beginning of March."

Quote

Bild reports (speculate) that the centrepiece of the Sochi upgrade is a new MGU-H unit. And it is expected that a customer engine deal for Sauber will be announced for 2018 in the coming days.

Effort to help Honda is allegedly spearheaded by FOG on grounds, that struggle could be disparaging for potential new entrants, therefore bad optics. I rather think help is directed for McLaren's benefit, as opposed to Honda as claimed, and it is coming late. Damage is done. Some people at FiA should have foresaw such scenarios when they signed toxic homologation and tokens agreements. Lack of proper analytical work is glaring.

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Emmcee
Re:...This year a completely new engine I beleive yet again.
Indeed, the PROBLEM appears to B with the, MGU-H

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Mclaren are NOT about to ditch Honda - Smoke & mirrors.
Sauber are not yet even a customer team.
The rate of development by Honda,  once a SECOND team is running the PU
WILL accelerate.
To ditch Honda NOW would have made the pain of the last 2/3 seasons WORTHLESS
It is 2 BIG a gamble.
What IF McLaren became a Mercedes customer again - ARE Williams,  Force India WINNING.
Both Mercedes CUSTOMERS !!

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1 hour ago, lipstick79 said:

Mclaren are NOT about to ditch Honda - Smoke & mirrors.
Sauber are not yet even a customer team.
The rate of development by Honda,  once a SECOND team is running the PU
WILL accelerate.
To ditch Honda NOW would have made the pain of the last 2/3 seasons WORTHLESS
It is 2 BIG a gamble.
What IF McLaren became a Mercedes customer again - ARE Williams,  Force India WINNING.
Both Mercedes CUSTOMERS !!

Agree. I believe I have pointed that couple of months ago. 

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On 4/24/2017 at 0:22 PM, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

I personally hope that something like this can be approved by he powers that be, we need proper competition in F1, talents like McLaren and Alonso are currently wasted. If something like this will be passed I presume that they will try to keep it as quiet as possible because it would look really really bad for Honda. F1 needs Honda to succed, it must be possible for new manufacturers to enter the sport with a reasonable expecation of reaching some success within a few years, Honda decided to follow the stubborn way rather thn the reasonable one as so F1 and as a  consequence Honda's problems have become F1 as whole problems, IMHO it's a situation that needs to be addressed asap, it can't go on forever, McLaren Honda must be allowed to either win a race this season or at least get a few podium finishes, the current situation is bad for the fans, is bad for McLaren, is bad for the drivers, is bad for F1 in general, and it is also bad for Honda. If Honda can't do their homework someone needs to step in and do it for them

Quote

Honda is understood to be using consultants to help it progress, with Hasegawa insisting: “I’ve never said we don’t want help from outside. It is happening but I don’t disclose with who.”

motosport.com 10 June 2017,  11:30

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Well Honda have managed to bugger up two well established careers and a young driver of great promise because they refused to shed their stone age work ethic and use the experience as a training exercise for their engineers. Shame on them and Ron Dennis's one-dimensional thinking. The obvious move now is for Alonso to move on and JB to return. He is the only Woking-based driver with a hard contract for 2018. I do hope so; it is dull without him.

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If the rumor is true, than a deal for next year between MB and McLaren is pretty much formulated already, if not signed and sealed. Irony of it is, it would be most likely exactly the same relationship and conditions RD fumed over several years ago. The triumphalism over iconic relationship, and complacency of the era past exhibited today how pseudo-intellectual that decision has become.

Honda however will ultimately succeed, I have no doubt about it. Recent headlines about issues with calibration of dyno and correlating data to track acquisition feedback is not at all unique to Honda. Ferrari had experienced something similar with wind-tunnel. These kind of irritants could be weeded out, but this process is lengthy, painstaking and technology partner doesn't want to wait anymore (for rather understandable reasons). Sauber however at the end will be rewarded as a winner, I think. 

McLaren drivers were pre-warned about risk they are undertaking by entering into such unproven union. If they decided to gamble, and they lost the bet, that's entirely their problem. Junior is in headlines with more problems than just his Honda is blowing up. Boullier was quite critical of his immaturity as far as the F1 racecraft is concerned.

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Good luck to McLaren.

Now they can do their best to compete with Williams and Force India.

Sauber to be Honda Works , sounds promising.

.

 

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SMOKE & Mirrors
It IS STILL June
3 MONTHS 4 Honda to get it RIGHT!!
Honda ONLY need 1 WIN
`Nando WILL B happy
McHonda HAVE proved statistically, a dynamic team
It ONLY needs 1 WIN for the domino effect to BEGIN!!

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On 13/6/2017 at 10:21 PM, Sakae said:

If the rumor is true, than a deal for next year between MB and McLaren is pretty much formulated already, if not signed and sealed. Irony of it is, it would be most likely exactly the same relationship and conditions RD fumed over several years ago. The triumphalism over iconic relationship, and complacency of the era past exhibited today how pseudo-intellectual that decision has become.

 

that might be true, unless of course Eddie Jordan has a point, then McLaren's decision to dump Honda will start to make sense 

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns36596.html

Besides, would you rather see your business go bankrupt (for the ridiculous failing of one of your suppliers) or try and save it? This is something that we have to consider, ignoring it means ignoring the bigger picture, McLaren cannot survive like this, they have no points, no title sponsor, very little money from FOM, and all that thanks to the great work that Honda is doing... wow, try to think for a second how the good people at McLaren must be felling at the prospect at losing their job because Honda, after all these years, still connot come up with a working PU

Honda (and its supporters) demands respect for their work, fair enough, but when is Honda going to respect other people? when is Honda going to show some respect for McLaren, their drivers, their shareholders, their sponsors? is there a different standard for Honda?

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56 minutes ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

that might be true, unless of course Eddie Jordan has a point, then McLaren's decision to dump Honda will start to make sense 

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns36596.html

Besides, would you rather see your business go bankrupt (for the ridiculous failing of one of your suppliers) or try and save it? This is something that we have to consider, ignoring it means ignoring the bigger picture, McLaren cannot survive like this, they have no points, no title sponsor, very little money from FOM, and all that thanks to the great work that Honda is doing... wow, try to think for a second how the good people at McLaren must be felling at the prospect at losing their job because Honda, after all these years, still connot come up with a working PU

Honda (and its supporters) demands respect for their work, fair enough, but when is Honda going to respect other people? when is Honda going to show some respect for McLaren, their drivers, their shareholders, their sponsors? is there a different standard for Honda?

Some time ago at McLaren an ideological (marketing) based resolution took precedence in favor of a flawed analysis, based on some irrelevant imaginary iconic relationship with a technology partner of the past. This was a path they chose, instead performing proper, due-diligence, risk based engineering analysis, using 2014 as a case study. I have no sympathy for a such decision making process. They made a meal, now I say, eat it. Bon appétit. Honda admitted they have underestimated challenge and said, it will be long and painful journey before performance convergence. I personally think they will succeed; maybe not on initial time-line, but they will get there with or without McLaren.

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