lipstick79

Alonso

399 posts in this topic

28 January 2018, 15:58 (UTC)

Alonso is back in headlines.

Funny thing, when some of us in here pointed rather unprofessional behavior of McLaren's driver, we were labeled as "haters". Now we have admission from an F1 manager, that this behavior was noted more broadly than just from sidelines. Perhaps we weren't that much unfair after all.

Comments about MB equipment advantage over their rivals takes inevitably some shine off Hamilton's bloated ego about his (subjectively taken) greatness.

 

Edited by Sakae

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2 hours ago, Sakae said:

28 January 2018, 15:58 (UTC)

Alonso is back in headlines.

Funny thing, when some of us in here pointed rather unprofessional behavior of McLaren's driver, we were labeled as "haters". Now we have admission from an F1 manager, that this behavior was noted more broadly than just from sidelines. Perhaps we weren't that much unfair after all.

Comments about MB equipment advantage over their rivals takes inevitably some shine off Hamilton's bloated ego about his (subjectively taken) greatness.

 

I can't find a sentence where Marko says that Alonso is unprofessional (BTW they have never worked together so Marko wouldn't be in the best position to judge that), all he says is that Alonso "did everything to make Honda look bad" :roll: so we now know that it was Nando who was sabotaging Vandoorne's engines :roll: and obviously it was Nando who restricted the performance of the mighty Honda engines :roll: if Nando hadn't messed with the engines, Honda would have conquered the world :roll: Oh an obviously Marko has a slight conflict of interest in this matter, since he is looking after STR who has just signed an engine deal with Honda (funny timing :roll:), after for years the very same Helmut Marko has vilified, day in day out, Renault with words that Alonso, who let's be clear in not a saint, has never even remotely used :roll:

All in all Alonso might even be unprofessional (but we would have to assume that the good people at McLaren are all dumb as they did everything possible to keep him and get rid of Honda :roll:), but we certainly do not get much evidence of such unprofessional side of Alonso from this interview with Helmut Marko

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46 minutes ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

I can't find a sentence where Marko says that Alonso is unprofessional (BTW they have never worked together so Marko wouldn't be in the best position to judge that), all he says is that Alonso "did everything to make Honda look bad" :roll: so we now know that it was Nando who was sabotaging Vandoorne's engines :roll: and obviously it was Nando who restricted the performance of the mighty Honda engines :roll: if Nando hadn't messed with the engines, Honda would have conquered the world :roll: Oh an obviously Marko has a slight conflict of interest in this matter, since he is looking after STR who has just signed an engine deal with Honda (funny timing :roll:), after for years the very same Helmut Marko has vilified, day in day out, Renault with words that Alonso, who let's be clear in not a saint, has never even remotely used :roll:

All in all Alonso might even be unprofessional (but we would have to assume that the good people at McLaren are all dumb as they did everything possible to keep him and get rid of Honda :roll:), but we certainly do not get much evidence of such unprofessional side of Alonso from this interview with Helmut Marko

I am hoping that you are not suggesting that Alonso, in reference to Honda, never publicly used scornful language, and he was always behaving as one would expect from a professional person? Relationship between RBR and Renault aside, from the linked article I did not get exactly feeling Dr. Marko was praising Alonso. Following remark has a lot of depth which you seems to choosing ignore. Start with that ostensive beach chair sitting, or various radio com, and go from there. Was that really all necessary, or was anything solved by that other than driving wedge into that partnership/relationship?

Quote

"They (Honda) could not develop freely and were pretty limited. Alonso has did everything to make the engine look bad."

 How often McLaren admitted they forced some form restrictions upon Honda? Ansv: never! Perhaps I was expecting something else in high-end sport. 

Edited by Sakae

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40 minutes ago, Sakae said:

I am hoping that you are not suggesting that Alonso, in reference to Honda, never publicly used scornful language, and he was always behaving as one would expect from a professional person?

 How often McLaren admitted they forced some form restrictions upon Honda? Ansv: never! Perhaps I was expecting something else in high-end sport. 

Alonso said that his engine had the power of a GP2 engine and that is neither scornful language nor an opinion, the problem my friend is that it was a fact, that is the real issue here, had Honda come up with an half decent engine they might have proven Alonso wrong and they were never in the position to do that since they did a lousy job. Pretending that Honda's PU was not a joke doesn't help, the sad reality is that they got it terribly wrong and were an embarrassment not only to themselves but to the sport in general

Regarding what restrictions McLaren forced upon Honda I cannot comment as I'm not an insider (and if you allow me nor are you and nor is Helmut Marko), we simply do not know, however if, for the argument's sake, Honda accepted some guidance from McLaren regarding for example the dimensions of their PU it is their problem, if they agreed in the first place that their PU should have certain dimensions they cannot think that McLaren could have changed their whole car simply because, halfway through the season, Honda had a change of heart and they wanted to change the dimensions of their engine. By suggesting that McLaren forced some technical specs unto Honda you are making Honda look very silly and very unprofessional because they should (i) have know better and (ii) should have never agreed in the first place (besides I'm quite confident that it was not McLaren who imposed certain dimensions to Honda, but rather Honda told McLaren before they started working on their car what the dimensions of their engine were going to be and McLaren developed a car around that, I'm sure that you'll understand that it's nigh on impossible to change a car halfway through the season because the PU manufacturer wants to change the dimensions of their PU, in such a situation the party at fault is the PU manufacturer not the chassis manufacturer)

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28 January 2018, 19:10 (UTC)

I am not privy to what said restriction McLaren imposed upon Honda, so much is true, but if it was discussed at RB, so I take their word for it. Vehicle integration sometimes (more accurately almost always) is based on large or smaller compromises. If you recall Ferrari engine as well was initially below performance par in 2014 and then suddenly in recent years it was fine. As explanation we were told, that vehicle aero group simply initially placed restrictive demands on PU form, and it did not work because engine could not reach its full potential. That was changed after Allison.

As my final point, I get it, Honda is in your bad column. I used to work with some of those guys (include Nissan, Mazda, Merc and others) on road vehicles in Japan and US, and maybe my outlook on the company culture, and personnel is influenced by the past experience I have. I am often disappointed over lack of understanding how much sweat and tears goes into this, how many obstacles through insane F1 regulations stand in path to greater development, but I am tolerant enough today to shrug it off. Life will go on. But that's me, sloppy European, who cannot even remotely imagine what this situation does to a Japanese mind, which would rather die, than to have an unhappy customer on their hands. Alonso's unnecessary and frequent critique hurt them quite badly, so much I am certain. 

Edited by Sakae

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Mclaren WERE forced to change their design concept FOR Honda.

Ron originally wanted the, size zero concept.  But the Honda PU, could NOT meet these requirements.
Mclaren had to quickly adapt their chassis design to the clumsy,  less efficient 
Honda PU - Mclaren bent over backwards to assist Honda. Though ultimately, it were for no return.

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28 minutes ago, lipstick79 said:

Mclaren WERE forced to change their design concept FOR Honda.

Ron originally wanted the, size zero concept.  But the Honda PU, could NOT meet these requirements.
Mclaren had to quickly adapt their chassis design to the clumsy,  less efficient 
Honda PU - Mclaren bent over backwards to assist Honda. Though ultimately, it were for no return.

What are you talking about? Surely you must know that switching supplier the initial design for MB had to be adopted (to lesser or greater) some extend to new conditions. Changes were made on both sides, which is a normal conditions. Lack of clarity rests on revealing whose design was compromised on account of performance.

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The initial design for MB had to be adopted - NOT true.
The Honda PU, operated VERY different to the MB.

Honda struggled to get the PU ready in time

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22 hours ago, Sakae said:

28 January 2018, 19:10 (UTC)

I am not privy to what said restriction McLaren imposed upon Honda, so much is true, but if it was discussed at RB, so I take their word for it. Vehicle integration sometimes (more accurately almost always) is based on large or smaller compromises. If you recall Ferrari engine as well was initially below performance par in 2014 and then suddenly in recent years it was fine. As explanation we were told, that vehicle aero group simply initially placed restrictive demands on PU form, and it did not work because engine could not reach its full potential. That was changed after Allison.

As my final point, I get it, Honda is in your bad column. I used to work with some of those guys (include Nissan, Mazda, Merc and others) on road vehicles in Japan and US, and maybe my outlook on the company culture, and personnel is influenced by the past experience I have. I am often disappointed over lack of understanding how much sweat and tears goes into this, how many obstacles through insane F1 regulations stand in path to greater development, but I am tolerant enough today to shrug it off. Life will go on. But that's me, sloppy European, who cannot even remotely imagine what this situation does to a Japanese mind, which would rather die, than to have an unhappy customer on their hands. Alonso's unnecessary and frequent critique hurt them quite badly, so much I am certain. 

Honda is not in my bad column, I used to like it quite a lot for that matter, I'm glad that you have such a strong bond with Honda but still they did a lousy job. And anyone in the world would rather not have an unhappy customer on their hands, I don't think that the good people at Maranello or Le Plessis enjoy being thrashed when something goes wrong, but that's life, I don't quite get why we should judge these matters with a different set of standards when Honda is in trouble

Regarding the first part of your post to me the fact that it was someone from RBR who mentioned the fact that McLaren had imposed some restrictions on Honda translates into "Marko is at it again" and I don't buy a single word of what he says, I tend to be rather skeptical of what top dogs in F1 say these days, when it's someone from RBR I think immediately "the guy is trying to sell us some garbage", I know I'm biased 

Besides rather than talking about McLaren why don't Marko gives the fuel consumption figures for his cars over the last season ;) 

Edited by Publius Cornelius Scipio

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@Publius Cornelius Scipio Very diplomatic post, revealing (potentially considerable) professional skills in negotiating arenas. :mellow: 

Lessons learned on my side - don't touch Alonso!! :)

Amend. I should have added in my response, that neither I and presumably Honda is above an objectively substantive critique. However I am also certain I do not have to explain that some of the comments and display crossed the line what some of us would consider good behavior. Anyway, new season is mere days away... 

Edited by Sakae

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Alonso is a Scumbag !!

 

‘Alonso did everything to make Honda look bad’

 

DNF in Indy (while losing badly) and 13th in Daytona sounds like a Washed out guy to me :lol:

Edited by radical-one

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On ‎29‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 6:57 PM, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

I'm glad that you have such a strong bond with Honda but

I DON`T have a strong bond with Honda.
I DO have a STRONG bond with Mclaren - ORIGINAL works Mercedes 

Something tells me - FORGET the paddles.
These are F1 drivers - the BEST in the world

They like to do,  a cha-cha
https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-t-s&p=cha-cha+dance#id=3&vid=1282ad128d480dbd5e49412b531b8fe7&action=click

They MOVE their, feet 

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On 30/01/2018 at 7:07 AM, radical-one said:

Alonso is a Scumbag !!

Maybe so.

Honda, Vettel and Ferrari are much worse though. 

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Alonso has recently raced everywhere but so far no good results anywhere :lol:

A lot of noise, and attention getting from Alonso but so far as results are concern it's all Meh....:thbdn:

Edited by radical-one

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Time,to DELIVER for Alonso.
His WHINNING ended the Mclaren Honda partnership.
Alonso`s FIRST target IS to be BETTER than,  Honda - Red Bull Tororoso Honda THEN 
he CAN think about the OTHER Renault teams.
IF the NEW Honda project > Red Bull Tororoso Honda IS better than Alonso
Alonso SHOULD repay Mclaren HIS salary

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IF Alonso IS just a NORMAL guy, Why did he DEMAND Mclaren DROP the Honda deal/money - he WOULD just suck it UP

Honda Red Bull Torro Rosso is NOW waiting to SHOW Alonso, what a FOOL he HAS been

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What a difference a year makes for Alonso and the McLaren powered by Renault NOT Honda

Edited by lipstick79

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On March 7, 2018 at 1:12 AM, lipstick79 said:

What a difference a year makes for Alonso and the McLaren powered by Renault NOT Honda

Exactly !

one word to describe - KARMA 

 

7 laps LOL

Testing – Here is the latest classification from pre-season Formula 1 testing at the Circuit de Catalunya.

  1. Kimi Raikkonen Scuderia Ferrari 1:17.221s 66 laps
  2. Romain Grosjean Haas 1:18.590s 74 laps
  3. Brendon Hartley Toro Rosso Honda 1:18.949s 91 laps
  4. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes AMG 1:19.464s 97 laps
  5. Esteban Ocon Sahara Force India 1:19.667s 61 laps
  6. Sergey Sirotkin Williams Martini 1:20.250s 72 laps
  7. Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull Racing 1:20.275s 47 laps
  8. Charles Leclerc Alfa Romeo Sauber 1:20.878s 18 laps
  9. Fernando Alonso McLaren F1 Team No time set 7 laps
  10. Carlos Sainz Renault Sport No time set 4 laps
Edited by radical-one

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4 hours ago, radical-one said:

one word to describe - KARMA 

 

7 laps LOL

Re: KARMA 

>Is THAT a NEW energy drink ??

7 laps that IS 7 MORE than with Honda

Edited by lipstick79

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1 minute ago, lipstick79 said:

7 laps LOL

Re: KARMA 

>Is THAT a NEW energy drink ??

7 that IS 7 MORE than with Honda

it's a waste of time, he doesn't want to see the hard facts, he's going to ruin this place with his sad rants, all he does his rooting against Alonso and McLaren, please someone explain him that he should rather watch football, motorsport is better than that, generally motorsport fans cheers for their team BUT not only against someone else, that is the specialty of football fans

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I personally DO watch football.
Pleasley Stags Girls FC

It IS a bouncing GOOD game !!
The cheering is NOT just for the players !!!

Edited by lipstick79

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10 hours ago, lipstick79 said:

7 laps LOL

Re: KARMA 

>Is THAT a NEW energy drink ??

7 laps that IS 7 MORE than with Honda

KARMA is a suppository that you can stick up your butt when you can't poo - Alonso will need this soon.

7 laps, I could walk backwards for the same testing duration and do more laps than that :clap3:

Try harder....

Edited by radical-one

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