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lipstick79

2017 Monaco GP

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On the streets of Monaco, I HAVE been there.
I went to the Monaco GP a few years ago.
The street circuit showed that Mclaren-Honda are making progress.
With it being a street circuit, where power is NOT an advantage.
The qualifying times were within hundreds off pole, not seconds.
With both cars qualifying in the top-ten.
Before any penalties are applied.

 

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Ferrari favouring Vettel over Raikkonen - Hamilton

Implying Ferrari's team-orders in Monaco. It is the same guy, who:

Quote

Mercedes asked Hamilton's teammate Valtteri Bottas to move aside to allow him to fight for victory in Bahrain earlier this year, and the Finn admitted that his "job" in the Spanish Grand Prix was to hold up Vettel when his pit strategy put him ahead of the Ferrari on track.

Quote

But when Hamilton was asked if his observation about Ferrari favouring Vettel meant he would be asking Mercedes for similar treatment, he dismissed the idea.

"I haven't spoken to the team, and I don't really plan to," Hamilton added. "Valtteri's doing a great job, I don't currently feel that we have to favour one over the other.

 

Admittedly I thought Hamilton has changed, and grew up into a man over winter. Sadly, I was wrong. Alternative facts are flavor of our lives these days.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-ferrari-favouring-vettel-hamilton-911872/

 

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Interesting race, not much overtaking but a few thrills

Vettel - he was much faster than Raikkonen, he deserved to win

Raikkonen - he asked when they were going to change his tyres, they answered and he had nothing against their plan, end of story. He was very slow compared to Vettel and he's very lucky that at Monaco it's nearly impossible to overtake and so he should think twice before complaining that Ferrari favoured Vettel, they didn't, quite simply when Vettel was on worn out tyres and he was on new rubber he didn't have Vettel's pace. And considering that as soon as Raikkonen pitted vettel started going round much faster than before IMHO only means that Kimi was blocking Vettel. furthermore Kimi should know that Ferrari had to cover Vettel (and Raikkonen) from Ricciardo, he posted 3 fasted laps in a row, they quite simply couldn't run the risk of pitting Vettel while Ricciardo was out there. It's a bit sad that Kimi doesn't understand that if he lost today it's because he no longer has the speed that he used to have

Ricciardo - very impressing, as soon as he had some space he managed to pull a string of mega laps, pityt aht he didn't manage to pass Verstappen at the start, otherwise he could have passed both Bottas and Raikkonen

Bottas - he didn't do any mistake which is good but he didn't seem to have much bite in his driving today

Verstappen - with hindsight it's easy to say that pitting early was a mistake, with hindsight we are all great strategists, the point is that he had to take a risk because he couldn't pass Bottas on track. His move also imnfluenced Bottas and Raikkonen, but none of them had the pace to challnge Vettel (and Ricciardo)

Sainz - amazing drive by him, it's a pity that top team seat are given to people like Raikkonen or Bottas rather than to drivers like Sainz (or Perez), nothing wrong with Raikkonen or Bottas but one has lost his sparkle and the other is a good driver but nothing more

Hamilton - he did what he had to do, damage limitation, good for him

Button - he did reasonably well this week end, ok he was slower than Vandoorne in qualy notwithstanding the fact that Alonso always seems to be miles ahead of Vandoorne but it was his first race in months. I was surprised at his accident with Wehrlein, he didn't stand a chance of passing there and he didn't really had enough speed to try, maybe he was just being frustrated at being dead last. Luckily for everyone involved Wehrlein didn't hit his head against the barriers and the Sauber didn't tuble over Button's car, it could have been a really nasty accident. Having said that I'm surprised that they haven't punished Button for his move

The rules - I am frankly speachless by the fact that they didn't stop the race while Wehrlein's car was in that dangerous position, the red flag is there for a reason, always accomodating TV schedules has a price and it can be a dangerous one. Today something really bad could have happened with that car in such a position in such a narrow part of the track

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10 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

I dont think we understand just how fast Vettel really is on street circuits, nevermind being majestic on any other track

Some of us actually do understand that, Brad. It is sad, that some of the so called "media experts" trying to spread notion, that victory was gifted to him today. The same people however were quite happy what went on in past races in the MB camp.

Kimi was on 1: 17.6 clock, however as soon as he pitted, Seb jump to 1: 15.2 and so on.

Like it or not, love him or hate him, Vettel was simply faster.

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Yea, it doesn't look to me like the Vettel-Raikonnen finish was a case of team bias.....but my sense from the post-race interview is that Kimi does not agree. Suspect this is Kimi's last year with Ferrari.

The guy who caught my attention was Perez, who told his team he could car less if the engine blew up....and then proceeded to hit two cars trying to claw his way through the field at the end. There is a reason that he is still not with a top team.

 

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4 hours ago, Ruslan said:

Yea, it doesn't look to me like the Vettel-Raikonnen finish was a case of team bias.....but my sense from the post-race interview is that Kimi does not agree. 

As Symonds said, if Kimi wanted to win, he should have driven 1:15 (instead 1:17 with a clear track in the front of him) after first 25 laps. Point is, he did not for whatever of reasons (and that is why he lost a race). Faster driver won. I can live with that.

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5 hours ago, Ruslan said:

The guy who caught my attention was Perez, who told his team he could car less if the engine blew up....and then proceeded to hit two cars trying to claw his way through the field at the end. There is a reason that he is still not with a top team.

 

Yes that wasn't great, regarding his accident with Kvyat, however, it is fair to say that Kvyat left the door open, he was looking for a way around the car in front and left some space for Perez who duly made his move. Pity that they crashed because they were both doing well, but since Perez was not punished I guess that the stewards agree that it was just a racing incident. It seems as if tempers were blowing yesterday afternoon, even Button was very vocal and then caused a silly accident. I still think that Perez deserves a top team 

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Hmmm, following news reports this morning, I'm starting to have my doubts. Also, following Kimi closely through the years his demeanor is the thing that really stands out and tells me something is amiss. This article sums it up succinctly. So, Bottas is 5 seconds behind, Max a little further... 

http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/605853/Did_traffic_cost_Kimi_the_win/

We can't use the argument of him being behind so many seconds AFTER the pitstop, he lost the race at the pits and I think he conserved the engine, typically Kimi....

Either way, I think it was way TOO EARLY for team orders

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17 hours ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

Raikkonen - he asked when they were going to change his tyres, they answered and he had nothing against their plan, end of story. He was very slow compared to Vettel and he's very lucky that at Monaco it's nearly impossible to overtake and so he should think twice before complaining that Ferrari favoured Vettel, they didn't, quite simply when Vettel was on worn out tyres and he was on new rubber he didn't have Vettel's pace. And considering that as soon as Raikkonen pitted vettel started going round much faster than before IMHO only means that Kimi was blocking Vettel. furthermore Kimi should know that Ferrari had to cover Vettel (and Raikkonen) from Ricciardo, he posted 3 fasted laps in a row, they quite simply couldn't run the risk of pitting Vettel while Ricciardo was out there. It's a bit sad that Kimi doesn't understand that if he lost today it's because he no longer has the speed that he used to have

 

He was told to pit by the team first. By the time we have radio commentary, he confirms if he should pit.

Kimi was on the same pace as Vettel BEFORE he pitted, he was MANTAINING the GAP. He could have gone another 10 - 20 laps as degration was minimal and was preserving his tyres

Kimi came out on Supersofts which is SLOWER than ultrasofts. Do the maths

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48 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

He was told to pit by the team first. By the time we have radio commentary, he confirms if he should pit.

Kimi was on the same pace as Vettel BEFORE he pitted, he was MANTAINING the GAP. He could have gone another 10 - 20 laps as degration was minimal and was preserving his tyres

Kimi came out on Supersofts which is SLOWER than ultrasofts. Do the maths

No I'm afraid he was not on the same pace as Vettel, Vettel had to trail Kimi, as soon as Kimi pitted Vettel improved significantly his pace, which in my book means that he was considerably quicker. Vettel was maintaining the gap, he had nowhere to go, all he did was manage his tyres and wait for a few clean laps. And that's what he did. Kimi didn't have Vettel's pace even after they were both on Supersofts, he was significantly slower before the SC and considerably slower after the SC. In a nutshell when they both had a clean track ahead of them Vettel was considerably faster than Kimi. That is why Vettel won. If Kimi didn't like the outome he could have tried to get close to Vettel and make a move, or at the very least stay close to him, sadly Kimi didn't have the pace to keep anywhere near Vettel, he shouldn't blame the team for that

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I suggest we look at BOTH their times.

Remember, the call from the pitwall for Kimi to pit comes in on last lap, Kimi does'nt have time to put Hammertime down and use up all available durability of the tyres. Ric also doing his faster times tells us there's still life in those Ultrasofts

 

EDIT: Refer to Sakae

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19 minutes ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

No I'm afraid he was not on the same pace as Vettel, Vettel had to trail Kimi, as soon as Kimi pitted Vettel improved significantly his pace, which in my book means that he was considerably quicker. Vettel was maintaining the gap, he had nowhere to go, all he did was manage his tyres and wait for a few clean laps. And that's what he did. Kimi didn't have Vettel's pace even after they were both on Supersofts, he was significantly slower before the SC and considerably slower after the SC. In a nutshell when they both had a clean track ahead of them Vettel was considerably faster than Kimi. That is why Vettel won. If Kimi didn't like the outome he could have tried to get close to Vettel and make a move, or at the very least stay close to him, sadly Kimi didn't have the pace to keep anywhere near Vettel, he shouldn't blame the team for that

EDIT: You can't say that. Track position is everything at Monaco... Look at the times Kimi did on Supersofts after he overtook the backmarkers after the pitstop. He deliberately backed off after Vettel emerges from pits

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35 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Anyway, I'm playing devil's advocate here. They are my favourite 2 drivers, but I think something is fishy here

I think that the problem for Kimi was that Ricciardo had some very quick laps after Verstappen, Bottas and Kimi pitted, Ferrari couldn't call Vettel in until Ricciardo was out there setting fastest laps one after the other. Maybe they should have known that the tyres would last so long, but with Ricciardo on the hunt Ferrari had no choice whatsoever

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Vettel was faster than Kimi in FP as well (almost whole weekend). The reason why he didn't get P1 was due to committing personal error going deep and lost time coming out of that turn, as opposed to being slow. I think pit-wall was ready to leave Kimi in P1 if for nothing then raising his confidence, but than something unplanned happened. Vettel was driving faster on old tires than they assumed he would, something which came up only after Kimi pitted. Had their position were reversed, it would have been Vettel pitting first. Seb lost time in pits as well this year. His LF wheel had some issue. I cannot read tea leaves, and describe this race in absolutes, but I can understand and accept Kimi's disappointment. It is true that cars behind them played their role in Ferrari's calculus.

Seb put in fastest Sector 1, Perez topped the other two.

Seb lost in pits (3rd fastest stop) 24.306 sec

Kimi 24.833 sec - (9th fastest stop)

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6 minutes ago, Sakae said:

Vettel was faster than Kimi in FP as well (almost whole weekend). The reason why he didn't get P1 was due to committing personal error going deep and lost time coming out of that turn, as opposed to being slow. I think pit-wall was ready to leave Kimi in P1 if for nothing then raising his confidence, but than something unplanned happened. Vettel was driving faster on old tires than they assumed he would, something which came up only after Kimi pitted. Had their position were reversed, it would have been Vettel pitting first. Seb lost time in pits as well this year. His LF wheel had some issue. I cannot read tea leaves, and describe this race in absolutes, but I can understand and accept Kimi's disappointment. It is true that cars behind them played their role in Ferrari's calculus.

Seb put in fastest Sector 1, Perez topped the other two.

Seb lost in pits (3rd fastest stop) 24.306 sec

Kimi 24.833 sec - (9th fastest stop)

I think that is most acceptable scenario, in my view too. I'll go with that

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7 hours ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

I still think that Perez deserves a top team 

I think so also, but this guy is difficult to deal with. Probably more difficult than Vettel/Hamilton/Alonso (I will let the reader pick who is the most difficult among those three).

He was with a top team for one year, and McLaren replaced him with Magnussen because they could not work with him. Magnussen is clearly not the same caliber driver. Anyhow, I noticed over the last couple of years that Perez was a lot less negative in his public comments so was hoping he may have matured. His engine comments at Monoco indicate that this may not be the case. I strongly suspect he is going to Ferrari next year to replace Kimi. I am not sure how well he is going to fit there. 

 

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I do not know who is most difficult in the group you've listed, but I have my doubt that it is Vettel.

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11 minutes ago, Sakae said:

I do not know who is most difficult in the group you've listed, but I have my doubt that it is Vettel.

Alonso hands down

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