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Sakae

Baku

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1 hour ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

 

finally the guys catching both Prost and Senna was the great Stefan Bellof

Well, I had the first B right. Yes, Bellof was truly unique. Shame.

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4 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

FIA would be making a ruling againts it's stewards also on the 2nd incident, because they already gave Vettel a penalty in the race.

 

I don't understand this unhappiness from Todt. When he was team principal of Ferrari, there were many questionable incidents and controversy under his watch. I mean... really!

1. Yes, but at least one steward considered a race ban at the time. As it is FIA has often reviewed races and added additional penalties afterwards. The NHL (hockey) also does this (a lot). I think there is a tendency for the stewards and refs at the moment to be a little conservative in their penalties....thoughtful reconsideration later is often needed. On the other hand FIA once increased someone's race ban from 1 to 3 races because they appealed! But hopefully the days of arrogant manipulators like Balestre and Mosley are past use.

2. Well, I did not support Todt for FIA head because he was a typical Ferrari team head.... but so far as head of FIA he has been a very different person. Certainly Vettel has been walking a fine line with FIA, this being his fourth incident in a year where he got points and his publicly cursing of Charlie Whiting. He has pretty much created all his own problems in that regard.

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2 hours ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

double jeopardy

Should that be the standard in FIA officiating? For example, in the NHL (hockey) they review and add additional player penalties probably a dozen times in a season. In North American hockey (unlike European hockey) there is a lot of checking (hitting) and other violence. It is still a sport that generates a fist-fight or two a game. Therefore, the refs have to make all kinds of calls at the moment and then the NHL reviews some of them later (although individual penalties, vice anything that would change the results of a game). Is the FIA stewards, with a changing group of three guys (often one or two of them not professional stewards), really a proper first court? Because of that, do they not need a second oversight body?

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Vettel has not created his own problems ALONE. No point arguing, after being provoked, in a heat of the track-battle, he used language suitable for private conversation (if at all). Unfortunately language police will latch on anything just to get to him, but he had a point to make, and a good one. Last year the race in which he exploded was one of the most disgraceful IMO in annals of FiA stewarding that I can recall. For Hamilton and Verstappen cutting corners yet FiA stayed silent, then DC cry-baby called in "he moved" - really, was it an inch or more? Race had strong optics of being manipulated by FiA, and subsequent change in regulations later on was silent admission that races cannot be managed that badly. Vettel was mad, had every reason for it yet today we say-he created his own problems? I don't think so.

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There have been 20-24 drivers racing 15-20 races a year for the last 30+ years since we have had radios (this is some number around 12,000)...and yet I believe that only one driver has cursed the race director out over the radio. The safety car regulations have been in place over the last decade (This comes out to at least 6-12 safety cars deployed a season, times 20 or less drivers following times 10 years = 1,800). There have certainly been a number of cases of the cars weaving and braking during safety car sessions, and there has been a number of collisions over the years. Yet this is the only case I recall of a driver coming up next to a driver and deliberately turning into him.

So....we do have a couple of highly unusual cases here, and they both involve the same driver. I have no hesitation is saying that he is creating his own problems. No one else has done this is the thousands of opportunities to do so. Certainly Vettel is the not the first driver to have a problem with the officiating and not the first driver to have a problem with the car in front of him in a safety car situation. Yet he is the first driver to curse out the race director and the first driver in a while to drive into someone over anger (since at least Patrese did the dramatic brake test that sent Berger flying).

 Don't be surprised if FIA bans him for a race of three on this birthday. If they do......it is something that he has certainly earned.

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10 hours ago, Ruslan said:

There have been 20-24 drivers racing 15-20 races a year for the last 30+ years since we have had radios (this is some number around 12,000)...and yet I believe that only one driver has cursed the race director out over the radio. 

...

since at least Patrese did the dramatic brake test that sent Berger flying

Vettel is the only driver that we know that told Charlie to f... off in the sense that it's the only time that it was broadcast on tv, I sincerely doubt that it had never happen before or since

I don't remember Patrese brake testing Berger, I seem to remember Patrese being sent up in the air when he hit Berger while Berger was coming into the pits

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Point I have been making, that there is a cause & an effect relationship. Vettel has not created his current situation in the vacuum, he didn't created mess alone (as Ruslan claimed), but he was always pushed first, as far as I could observe. Today he is certainly being asked to explain himself, however he will stand there alone. It doesn't makes much sense. 

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I hope Vettel gets a race ban and his points from Baku taken away. There was no excuse for his behaviour last weekend. His lies during the post race interviews were embarrassing. It showed his real character. 

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I am definitely strengthening my character just reading your posts, and not playing Vettel in response. It's really hard work on my part.

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3 minutes ago, Sakae said:

I am definitely strengthening my character read your posts, and not play Vettel in response. It's really hard work on my part.

If only the first sentence made any sense. 

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British paper Mirror is reporting from their source that Vettel docked 12 points and was disqualified over the altercation. Full FiA statement is expected later on. 

Early thoughts based on the rumor...

1. Credibility of this media source I hear is not always very best one. 

2. Hamilton's change of speed from 80 to 53 km/hr has not played a part in the outcome as only action of the car #5 was in focus. 

3. It sounds like Vettel was tried twice over the same incident.

4. My guess is that Tribunal would have to vote on this.

5. I am not sure if Ferrari would move on, or challenge the decision. Ferrari has not issued their statement on the incident.  

6. We should have FiA confirmation of the meeting and their decision this week. 

In the world we knew in the past much has changed these days. We live in new age of alternative - convenient - truth, as the one from the past has fallen victim (...someone suggested in 1758, yet we are reminded of it fittingly today). 

Hamilton should bear partial culpability in opinion by JV, Stewart, Prost, Marko, BE, Berger and now also Ross Brawn. All heavyweights in their time when active in the F1.  

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FIA Statement: FIA TO TAKE NO FURTHER ACTION AGAINST VETTEL

Following an incident at the recent Azerbaijan Grand Prix involving a collision between Car 5 (Sebastian Vettel) and Car 44 (Lewis Hamilton), Sebastian Vettel was today invited to attend a meeting at the FIA’s Paris headquarters. He was accompanied by his Team Principal Maurizio Arrivabene. He reviewed the incident together with a panel comprised of FIA Deputy President for Sport Graham Stoker, FIA General Secretary for Sport Peter Bayer, FIA Formula One World Championship Race Director Charlie Whiting and FIA Formula One World Championship Deputy Race Director and FIA Safety Director Laurent Mekies.

I am still uncertain that I understand on what basis the outcome was derived:

- Cannot try twice for the offense?

- Desire not to interfere with WDC?

- Silent recognition by FiA what JV, Stewart, Prost, Marko, BE, Berger and Ross Brawn realized?

- Other?

Looks like (paper) Mirror might got it wrong (re: preceding post).

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Ferrari's public statement:

Quote

3 Jul 2017

Following the meeting that was held today in Paris between FIA representatives and Scuderia Ferrari driver S.Vettel, with the purpose of clarifying positions on the incidents occurred at the Azerbaijan Grand Prix, Scuderia Ferrari notes the driver’s apologies and his personal commitments to help the image of the sport. Scuderia Ferrari confirms its support to FIA’s initiatives, sharing the governing’s body values and objectives.

Now we have to wait for the "unofficial" statement on state of relationship between Sebastian and the team.

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1 hour ago, Sakae said:

I am still uncertain that I understand on what basis the outcome was derived:

- Cannot try twice for the offense?

- Desire not to interfere with WDC?

- Silent recognition by FiA what JV, Stewart, Prost, Marko, BE, Berger and Ross Brawn realized?

- Other?

Looks like (paper) Mirror might got it wrong (re: preceding post).

Good news!!!

What about the first incident when he was brake-tested???????.

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57 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Good news!!!

What about the first incident when he was brake-tested???????.

Well, as noted in the previous post, I do not know on what basis the outcome of the meeting was derived. It is plausible that circumstances were taken into consideration, it also could be that double jeopardy did not sit well with some participants. Seb is however on probation, and some off track activities were added to his list To Do between races.

BTW, brake testing was the initial accusation, and it was easily denied as false, yet the same effect has been achieved because Hamilton either lifted, and/or shifted down, and slowed down just as well. Totto admitted as much, however FiA race stewards have not issued any statement regarding that part of the incident, and whether it had played any role today in the Paris meeting we do not know. I would not be surprised to learn, that it has come up.

I've read just today, that JT is "at war" with Ferrari, and trying to get them. Whatever that means, for whatever reasons (could be for blocking some of the FiA's agenda, I am guessing).

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Well, FIA has reviewed and Vettel has apologized and we move on. I will note that 1) Vettel stated that Hamilton did not brake test him and 2) Vettel stated that the second crash was his fault (meaning it was deliberate, he did not loose control of his car).

So......1) Did Hamilton brake test Vettel and 2) Did Vettel accidently loose control of the car causing the second crash?

 

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On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 1:08 AM, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

Vettel is the only driver that we know that told Charlie to f... off in the sense that it's the only time that it was broadcast on tv, I sincerely doubt that it had never happen before or since

I don't remember Patrese brake testing Berger, I seem to remember Patrese being sent up in the air when he hit Berger while Berger was coming into the pits

You are right...had to go review the 1992 incident on youtube. I guess I am just getting old :( 

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5 minutes ago, Ruslan said:

Well, FIA has reviewed and Vettel has apologized and we move on. I will note that 1) Vettel stated that Hamilton did not brake test him and 2) Vettel stated that the second crash was his fault (meaning it was deliberate, he did not loose control of his car).

So......1) Did Hamilton brake test Vettel and 2) Did Vettel accidently loose control of the car causing the second crash?

 

I think Vettel is being polite. Don't stir the pot when he's left off the hook. Clever play. I read several reports with Vettel suggesting Hamilton did exactly the same in China, can't remember the year

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1 hour ago, Ruslan said:

Well, FIA has reviewed and Vettel has apologized and we move on. I will note that 1) Vettel stated that Hamilton did not brake test him and 2) Vettel stated that the second crash was his fault (meaning it was deliberate, he did not loose control of his car).

So......1) Did Hamilton brake test Vettel and 2) Did Vettel accidently loose control of the car causing the second crash?

 

1. As stated numerous times already in this thread, initial suspicion that Hamilton brake-tested Vettel proved as not correct, however Hamilton changed his speed, said Wolff. (I think it was from 80 to 53 km/hr). J. Stewart thought, after he realized topographical location, it was wrong of Hamilton and sole purpose to provoke (brake his rhythm) Vettel.

The same opinion was shared by other (mature) people.

2. I do not know answer to the second question.

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Lewis Hamilton believes FIA president Jean Todt should “answer some questions” about why Sebastian Vettel was not further sanctioned for the potential damage his actions in Baku could have on the sport

Our boy is not letting off, is he?

Every time I forget why I don't like this person, he kindly comes back, and reminds me.

 

Lies, lies, and more lies. When asked whether he wants to retract his insults of Vettel, Hamilton said no. Then he adds - I have the UTMOST respect for Vettel.

 

What a ...

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