lipstick79

Mclaren-Renault

245 posts in this topic

Oh what a c#ckup at McLaren this year.

No more scape goat in Honda. They are taking all the crap !

Eric OUT !

Zak OUT !

Alonso QUIT !

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24 June 2018, 13:27 (CEST)  McLaren has other problems than just misgivings about E.Boullier. Facts are, they had Mercedes engine with Lowe at the helm, and they weren't winning much. They had Whitmarsh at the helm, and they weren't winning much. They kicked Dennis out, and they weren't winning much. They had Honda, and they weren't winning much either. Now Renault, and we are waiting.

Obviously there are some other issues on the table which weren't addressed for years. I am not buying into phony theory, that kicking out Boullier is panacea for what is in essence a British problem IMO, with Brown at the helm. The wolf pack that is circling around McLaren seeking blood will have difficult time to convince me that a manager, who is responsible for track related racing operations, attending every race through the year around the globe, the same man is also responsible for a racing car design, a job which you need to attend for 80 hrs a week on location. They kicked Honda out (McLaren's favorite MO), and expected miracles. Now they are ready to kick Boullier out, and probably expect miracles. All what I say — if so, be prepared to be disappointed.

It was Boullier after all, who said when he has accepted his tenure, that in his life he hasn't seen any organization with people possessing so many confusing, ambiguous, and empty titles working in rigid management structure, like McLaren has it. It was up to Brown to change it, and as far as we can tell, we are still waiting for his success. One thing is sure -- he isn't Frédéric Vasseur or Jean Todt.

Edited by Sakae

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8 hours ago, Sakae said:

Re:
Bouillier-- he isn't Frédéric Vasseur or Jean Todt.

Bouillier is, No Ron Denis either

Ron HAS to be, up there WITH Bruce

Edited by lipstick79

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8 hours ago, Sakae said:

 Facts are, they had Mercedes engine with Lowe at the helm, and they weren't winning much.

Let`s think about that.
Off top of my head without Googling it.
1998 WDC with Mika Hakkinen
1998 WCC
1999 WDC with Mika Hakkinen

So in that period with the Mercedes engine and Lowe at the helm, they WERE still winning.
What is better than best in the world !!!

OfficiallyAmazing.jpg

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1 hour ago, lipstick79 said:

Bouillier is, No Ron Denis either

Ron HAS to be, up there WITH Bruce

Rubbish. Boullier is not in the same role as RD was. Brown however is RD2 (on F1 side of things). Boullier has limited responsibility in McLaren, and you need to show how he can be made responsible for car development, while he lives on hotels out off his luggage thousands of kilometers away from their design offices. There are some other people working on the car. He is not in the same position AN is at RBR or Allison has at MB. This has been brought up before, however some people insist making him a scapegoat. 

Regarding Cosworth, when they have engine ready for racing, they can try it.

Edited by Sakae

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Indeed,

Though it is NOT like, Boullier accepted the role YESTERDAY.
Boullier HAS had the thing that you can NOT buy.  Boullier HAS had TIME.
Admittedly the Honda project were NOT down to HIS decision.  Ron SIGNED
Mclaren up to Honda Works Status.
Though even WITH,  the race WINNING Renault - Mclaren HAS still gone BACKWARDS,.
under Boullier.

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Regarding  Cosworth  -  They  DO  have  an  engine/pu  READY
Just NO  customers.
Brown went for the race winning CUSTOMER  option in Renault

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I am  NO genius. But if you tunnel MORE cold air into the ICE.

More air means more combustion, and more combustion means more power
U WILL increase speed - well horse power increases. Which in turn - more SPEED

 

Edited by lipstick79

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On 6/24/2018 at 11:24 PM, lipstick79 said:

Regarding  Cosworth  -  They  DO  have  an  engine/pu  READY
Just NO  customers.
Brown went for the race winning CUSTOMER  option in Renault

Why then RBR was crying for an engine, and at the end went back to Renault instead taking on Cosworth (you claim they have an engine ready to hit the road, something I personally do not believe)?

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On 6/24/2018 at 11:07 PM, lipstick79 said:

Indeed,

Though it is NOT like, Boullier accepted the role YESTERDAY.
Boullier HAS had the thing that you can NOT buy.  Boullier HAS had TIME.
Admittedly the Honda project were NOT down to HIS decision.  Ron SIGNED
Mclaren up to Honda Works Status.
Though even WITH,  the race WINNING Renault - Mclaren HAS still gone BACKWARDS,.
under Boullier.

.

Edited by Sakae

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On 26/06/2018 at 7:29 PM, Sakae said:

If you haven't done it yet, go and visit McLaren management org-chart. Are you going to suggest that Boullier just needs to snap fingers and say jump(!), and they all on that chart will ask how high? I am sorry for doubting it. Boullier is a racing manager, not a team principal.

There is another issue which is not getting much attention, namely, the switch from Honda to Renault was decided (IMHO) quite late last year, when design was already in progress and it makes me wonder how badly vehicle was changed and compromised, if at all, with that switch. In simple terms, Renault's PU was added to the vehicle, rather than being part off integration  More air means more combustion, and more combustion means more power should be better.


Cosworth says it would like to work with Aston Martin on a potential Formula 1 engine project and has had discussions with the British manufacturer about joining forces.

Aston is keeping a close eye on developments with F1's 2021 engine rules, and is keen on re-entering grand prix racing as an engine supplier should the new rules substantially reduce costs.

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1 hour ago, lipstick79 said:


Cosworth says it would like to work with Aston Martin on a potential Formula 1 engine project and has had discussions with the British manufacturer about joining forces.

Aston is keeping a close eye on developments with F1's 2021 engine rules, and is keen on re-entering grand prix racing as an engine supplier should the new rules substantially reduce costs.

Talk is cheap. Let them do it, and then come back to me. I am still not sure what all of this has anything to do with current situation at McLaren, and how touch of xenophobic overtones will make them a better team.

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Quote

Former McLaren designer says McLaren can't "survive" changes needed

Former McLaren designer John Barnard doesn't believe McLaren can turnaround the issues because they'd struggle to survive. He insists they'll need a full reshuffle of the management system which was installed by Martin Whitmarsh. Barnard was part of the British team when they went through a revival period in the early 1980's with Ron Dennis. "They've had this matrix management system installed by probably Martin Whitmarsh, and you've got to break that down, I don't think it works. You have to change the thinking," said Barnard in an interview on F1i. "I don't know how long that will take [or] whether the team can survive that kind of a fundamental turnaround

I am not John Barnard, but I feel for what he states. E, Boullier noted the same in early stages of his tenure. A team principal (Brown) must have free hand to implement necessary changes, and if he doesn't know how, than he has to be moved out or into a lesser role. Giving Boullier a pink slip will not move this team forward.

Barnard BTW also unwittingly accomplished something else coming out with his thoughts in public, namely, he might have put brakes on DR's thoughts to move there at this junction. 

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Re:

Cosworth says it would like to work with Aston Martin on a potential Formula 1 engine project and has had discussions with the British manufacturer about joining forces.

>With Aston Martin deciding AGAINST entering Formula 1.
Cosworth SHOULD talk to/partner with Mclaren Road Cars.
Potentially supplying the F1 team

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Teams are waiting for FiA and Liberty to issue new technology guidelines whether they can afford it, and be competitive before they commit to F1 racing. Cosworth -- I guess -- is waiting for those as well (just like Porsche, and several others).

Edited by Sakae

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There you go...

Quote

John Barnard, the legendary Formula 1 designer

“I think it’s a fundamental problem of technical leadership, because I don’t think there is any there,” the Briton, whose biography ‘The Perfect Car’ was published in June, told Reuters from his home in Switzerland.

“Somebody needs to be sitting on top of that technical pyramid pulling it together, keeping everybody going in the same direction. And I don’t see that happening.”...

Technical head Tim Goss, one of three top engineers at the team along with aerodynamics head Peter Prodromou and chief engineering officer Matt Morris, was moved aside in April and has yet to be replaced.

Has yet to be replaced, three months later (question for the Team Principal)? Who is then running in-season development, and who is focusing on next season?

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Boullier -- a scape goat what is in essence Anglo-American mismanagement -- resigns. I have been wondering how long he could put up with that place.

His departure smells like a little con job. Blame French is one way how to play that game in UK. 

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49 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Boulier is'nt the problem. He's just taking the fall

Quote

Pitpass - Furthermore, at a time Christian Horner claims that Mercedes strategist James Vowles was "thrown under the bus" by the German team, one has to point out that Boullier was not responsible for the design of the MCL33, nor was he responsible for the decision to drop Honda in favour of Renault.

 I am not sure what's going on with Horner, but my recollection is, that com was between a driver and chief strategist, later offering himself as being responsible for the situation. Why Horner blames "German team" is not entirely clear.

Edited by Sakae

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Like Humpty-Dumpty, was Boullier pushed or did he jump????

 

                         

 

 

 

Edited by lipstick79

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Some articles suggest he has submitted resignation from his own volition. At the end I think he would be pushed out anyway in December just to take heat off some other personnel.

 

Following article sounds very pointed onto Boullier. For sake of civility I will refrain myself from voicing what I think about his words.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/644495/Zak_Brown_on_Boullier_resignation_The_MCL33_has_not_met_our_expectations/

 

Edited by Sakae

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Finger-pointing began.

Rather strage position to take by the CEO:

Quote

McLaren's CEO Zak Brown blames management instability for the downfall the F1 team has experienced. He labelled the situation as "completely unacceptable" as McLaren continue to struggle in 2018.

How long is he in that top job?

Edited by Sakae

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So, vehicle is fine, its just at the track...

Quote

Brown wants de Ferran to maximise team and driver performance

From his role as a consultant with McLaren, Gil de Ferran has been entrusted with extracting the best performance from the team and its drivers on race weekends.

The Woking-based outfit's latest leadership changes have forced former racing director Eric Boullier out of the team, with two-time IndyCar champion and Indy 500 winner de Ferran taking over part of the Frenchman's sporting responsibilities.

Looks like reporting on the events at McLaren is changing by an hour.

Now we have to see what the cosmetic changes will bring to the team fortunes. I am however not expecting much.

Congratulation to Boullier for getting out from there, and it doesn't matter if he was pushed or left under his own volition. Its behind him, and he can breath again.

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On 24/06/2018 at 10:00 PM, Sakae said:

Rubbish. Boullier is not in the same role as RD was. Brown however is RD2 (on F1 side of things). Boullier has limited responsibility in McLaren, and you need to show how he can be made responsible for car development, while he lives on hotels out off his luggage thousands of kilometers away from their design offices. There are some other people working on the car. He is not in the same position AN is at RBR or Allison has at MB. This has been brought up before, however some people insist making him a scapegoat. 

Regarding Cosworth, when they have engine ready for racing, they can try it.

Boullier WERE in the SAME role as RD,  team leader/manager whatever label.
Though,  Dennis WERE ALSO owner/CEO ... Now Boullier HAS realised, he is NOT up to Mclaren standards
and walked

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I’m not interested anymore in that conversation. As someone noted, and I concur, every one of us are entitled to our own unique interpretations, but not to the facts of the case, as those are what they are, and there are no alternative truths.

In conclusion:

  • McLaren was on decline long time before Boullier was appointed.
  • Boullier was not a team principal who could act as one.
  • Boullier was not responsible for car design and construction.
  • Boullier was not responsible for appointing Honda, nor initiating termination of their relationship.
  • Boullier has left, thus there is no point to look anywhere else but straight ahead.

My opinion: wrong person has left.

Edited by Sakae

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