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Sakae

2017 Mexico

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1 hour ago, BradSpeedMan said:

It's nothing to do with blindness, it's not a problem he has with any other driver besides MadMax. Kimi has that problem with MadMax too. 

I didn't manage to watch the race, Channel 4 was broadcasting it at 11pm and this morning I had a flight at 7am... however as always everyone is very critical of Vettel (especially the Italian media, I must say). I only managed to see the video linked to in one of the posts above, I don't see anything wrong in what Vettel did with respect to Verstappen, he gently closed him on the outside, Vertsppen does that all the time. Re Vettel touching Hamilton I agree that it wasn't great, I don't think that it was intentional as Vettel was already committed to that right hander and didn't really have much chance to change his line after turn entry (and Hamilton had a lot to gain from an accidnet, and in fairness he did nothing to avoid it). It seems to me that it was a very unfortunate affair, a racing incident.

Having said that I think that Brad's sentence quoted above is interesting: both Ferrari drivers have problems with Verstappen. Either both Ferrari drivers don't know what they're doing or we could see this whole sage from another angle: Verstappen contantly picks on Vettel and Raikkonen because he knows that he can get away with it. Verstappen is very interesting to watch, he's one of the few drivers who spice things up, but to say that he is allowed to do what ther drivers aren't allowed to do on track is an understatement, Max can get away with everything apart from banging into a Mercedes. If this is how Vettel and Raikkonen dice with Verstappen accidents are bound to happen because on the one side you have an overaggressive little b.....d who is willing to exploit every chance, on the other you have two drivers who aren't really allowed to dice and must fight with their hands tied behind their back.

Having said that can we get the fuel readings of Verstappen's engine? 

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15 minutes ago, VicVenom said:

:lol:

Where did I ever refer to you as buddy or pal? Can't you read? I would never hang around with the likes of you in the real world. You're a freak of nature. 

Webber? I never gave a s##t about him. Another conspiracy of yours that is ultimately bulls##t. But keep trying, it's fun to watch :lol:

So be it

Now ole Ricci getting beaten like that by that youngster MadMax, aussie guys won't like that... not one bit

Up to full venomous again.... thats it Peanutgallery!!! Cutesy stuff don't suit you

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19 minutes ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

I didn't manage to watch the race, Channel 4 was broadcasting it at 11pm and this morning I had a flight at 7am... however as always everyone is very critical of Vettel (especially the Italian media, I must say). I only managed to see the video linked to in one of the posts above, I don't see anything wrong in what Vettel did with respect to Verstappen, he gently closed him on the outside, Vertsppen does that all the time. Re Vettel touching Hamilton I agree that it wasn't great, I don't think that it was intentional as Vettel was already committed to that right hander and didn't really have much chance to change his line after turn entry (and Hamilton had a lot to gain from an accidnet, and in fairness he did nothing to avoid it). It seems to me that it was a very unfortunate affair, a racing incident.

Having said that I think that Brad's sentence quoted above is interesting: both Ferrari drivers have problems with Verstappen. Either both Ferrari drivers don't know what they're doing or we could see this whole sage from another angle: Verstappen contantly picks on Vettel and Raikkonen because he knows that he can get away with it. Verstappen is very interesting to watch, he's one of the few drivers who spice things up, but to say that he is allowed to do what ther drivers aren't allowed to do on track is an understatement, Max can get away with everything apart from banging into a Mercedes. If this is how Vettel and Raikkonen dice with Verstappen accidents are bound to happen because on the one side you have an overaggressive little b.....d who is willing to exploit every chance, on the other you have two drivers who aren't really allowed to dice and must fight with their hands tied behind their back.

Having said that can we get the fuel readings of Verstappen's engine? 

30 October 2017   12:21 (CET)

Unchecked and audacious Verstappen's driving is only to get more aggressive going forward, because he knows whatever he will do to Vettel, he will get away with it. On or off the track. Just check a few races back when he took DR out of race, and how rhetoric changed. Hamilton said- this guy is dangerous, DR said - f*cking looser, etc. Imagine that Vettel would talk right that.  Case of a glass half empty. They say Vettel hit Verstappen, I say Verstappen smashed critical parts to car stability at the front of Ferrari, and got away with that.

Ferrari will not submit any complain; at least not now. Pity.

About that mapping, I was thinking the same thing. I doubt that performance in that race is accurately indicative where Renault is at the moment.

 

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1 minute ago, Sakae said:

Unchecked and audacious Verstappen's driving is only to get more aggressive going forward, because he knows whatever he will do to Vettel, he will get away with it. On or off the track. Just check a few races back when he took DR out of race, and how rhetoric changed. Hamilton said- this guy is dangerous, DR said - f*cking looser, etc.

I don't have a problem with Verstappen's behaviour per se (at least with most of his tricks, lifting while in front of Raikkonen at Spa was criminal and I will never ever accept such behaviour), it's muscolar and aggressive and in a sense it's an "old school" appraoch, my problem is that he's allowed to race like that and the others aren't.

When JV said that in his days someone would have put him into the trees he was stating the obviuos, if you harm someone it's only fair that he or she should do the same with you, pity this doesn't apply to young Max. I also happen to think that Max's action become ever more unpleasant because of what his silly dad says, Jos should be banned from any media (and considering his antics as a wife beater getting rid of him would be a small little step towards a better world)

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44 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

So be it

Now ole Ricci getting beaten like that by that youngster MadMax, aussie guys won't like that... not one bit

Up to full venomous again.... thats it Peanutgallery!!! Cutesy stuff don't suit you

I know with your disability you need things to make sense but I can assure you that I am not Australian. I don't really care about Ricciardo either. Good driver, easily beat Vettel and made him run away to Ferrari, but he's nothing special.

Verstappen is the future. He's been the best driver on the grid this year by a mile. All while your little hero has thrown away the title. I look forward to all the titles he's going to win in the future. All while Vettel fades away and is long forgotten about :lol:

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20 minutes ago, Sakae said:

30 October 2017   12:21 (CET)

Unchecked and audacious Verstappen's driving is only to get more aggressive going forward, because he knows whatever he will do to Vettel, he will get away with it. On or off the track.

Vettel got away with SIngapore and Mexico. He got a slap on the wrist for Baku. 

Given that you worship Vettel, I would shut up about leniency if I were you.

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10 minutes ago, Caesar said:

Vettel has a lot of incidents in which he wasn't punished properly.

Non bias person would see that.

Which include you and Peanutgallery aka Webric, who's now backing another driver cause his fav is being whipped:lol::lol::roll:

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3 hours ago, Sakae said:

30 October 2017   12:21 (CET)

Unchecked and audacious Verstappen's driving is only to get more aggressive going forward, because he knows whatever he will do to Vettel, he will get away with it. On or off the track. Just check a few races back when he took DR out of race, and how rhetoric changed. Hamilton said- this guy is dangerous, DR said - f*cking looser, etc. Imagine that Vettel would talk right that.  Case of a glass half empty. They say Vettel hit Verstappen, I say Verstappen smashed critical parts to car stability at the front of Ferrari, and got away with that.

Ferrari will not submit any complain; at least not now. Pity.

About that mapping, I was thinking the same thing. I doubt that performance in that race is accurately indicative where Renault is at the moment.

 

Vettel called people cucumbers and idiots many time, so dont make saint out of him

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12 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Which include you and Peanutgallery aka Webric, who's now backing another driver cause his fav is being whipped:lol::lol::roll:

I am just applying same madicine you use on alonso. :P

 

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30 October 2017   16:04 (CET)

I am skeptical of fans (and perhaps especially self-proclaimed experts) who claim their comments are objective. I do believe in facts, however I think approximation of objectivity is very seldom achieved from chairs we sit in. Not enough information. Verstappen damaged Vettel's car. Not first time, and it is never his fault. Hamilton can whine as much as he wants to, accusing Vettel deliberately hitting him (someone put question mark at the end later on) but Vettel driving in dirty air and stricken front did not have stability he needed. One would assume that objective people would take that into consideration.

 

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18 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Which include you and Peanutgallery aka Webric, who's now backing another driver cause his fav is being whipped:lol::lol::roll:

Verstappen is not being whipped though is he Autistic Brad? :lol:

 

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6 minutes ago, Caesar said:

Vettel called people cucumbers and idiots many time, so dont make saint out of him

You are making my point for me. First of all driving like "cucumber" is rather light metaphor for someone being slow, however that's not a point I was making. Point rather was, Vettel is not the only one who talks as young people do these days, however he seems to be the one who gets critiqued for it. It is now more than a year or two when Vettel said that, and he said that only once yet you are still on it in your hate of the guy, whereas when other drivers say far more offensive things about MV, it goes over your head and you simply do not care. There was nothing on the forum about their comments, there was a lot about cucumbers. Obviously cucumbers offend you (and media) more than anything else. Maybe you do not like vegetables, who knows, on the other hand, maybe some people are little hypocritical.

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4 minutes ago, Sakae said:

You are making my point for me. First of all driving like "cucumber" is rather light metaphor for someone being slow, however that's not a point I was making. Point rather was, Vettel is not the only one who talks as young people do these days, however he seems to be the one who gets critiqued for it. It is now more than a year or two when Vettel said that, and he said that only once yet you are still on it in your hate of the guy, whereas when other drivers say far more offensive things about MV, it goes over your head and you simply do not care. There was nothing on the forum about their comments, there was a lot about cucumbers. Obviously cucumbers offend you (and media) more than anything else. Maybe you do not like vegetables, who knows, on the other hand, maybe some people are little hypocritical.

He called alonso idiot few races ago.

An advice for you, long posts don't make them smarter.

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20 minutes ago, Sakae said:

30 October 2017   16:04 (CET)

I am skeptical of fans (and perhaps especially self-proclaimed experts) who claim their comments are objective. I do believe in facts, however I think approximation of objectivity is very seldom achieved from chairs we sit in. Not enough information. Verstappen damaged Vettel's car. Not first time, and it is never his fault. Hamilton can whine as much as he wants to, accusing Vettel deliberately hitting him (someone put question mark at the end later on) but Vettel driving in dirty air and stricken front did not have stability he needed. One would assume that objective people would take that into consideration.

 

I don't know why would ham ever think that vet would hit him on purpose. :rolleyes:

Did you watch that you tube video i posted. How can you defend vettel, i don' t get, it was so amateurish.

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1 hour ago, Caesar said:

 How can you defend vettel, i don' t get, it was so amateurish.

In Singapore Vettel hasn't touched Verstappen's car at all, but he was blamed for all what followed behind him when Verstappen panicked. Yesterday hot head MV takes front architecture off Vettel's car in rather careless move, yet it is Vettel again who is blamed for all what followed while driving damaged vehicle in dirty air, sandwiched between two MB cars. Obviously you do not see pattern which is developing here.

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I watched the race.  I thought the race was fine.  I've seen better.  I've seen worse.  Good for Lewis Hamilton to be champion again.  He is making up for his lost years, where a combo of Red Bull dominance and his own loss of focus caused by issues in his personal life made it easy to wonder if he'd ever get to two WDCs.

I find it interesting that Hamilton and Vettel are both race winners in four distinct regulatory eras of F1, and Hamilton is now a champion in three different ones.  Today's drivers contend with so much, in terms of changing rules.  While we normally think of rules changes giving constructors an "era," I think we need to give more credit to the drivers who continue to succeed.  Hamilton and Vettel are both winners in the high-aero, V8 F1, the radically reduced aero V8 F1, the pokey and poopy first attempt at a 6-cylinder hybrid F1, and now the 2017+ F1 that features the fastest cars ever with a return to aero.

This is not to say that other drivers could not master so many different cars, as stable rules meant they never had a chance.  But we always talk about drivers who raced every type of vehicle and their versatility in the old days; now, the modern application of that is being consistently on the top in many different vehicles in the same series because of rules overhauls.

As for the big moment of the race, who cares?  Yeah, perhaps Verstappen might not have won if not for the first corner incident, but ultimately, it proves meaningless—Hamilton clinches the title yesterday whether the contact happens or not.  The best case for Vettel, if the contact doesn't happen, is he wins and Hamilton finishes third—Verstappen/Vettel/Hamilton were going to be the podium.  In that case, Vettel leaves with 290 points and Hamilton with 346, which means Hamilton is still WDC.  The fact is, Vettel could only keep the title fight alive if he won and Hamilton finished sixth or worse, or if he finished second and Hamilton finished tenth or worse (mathematically, Vettel could not win the tie-breaker on race wins over Hamilton, so while he could have tied, still not able to win).

And then there's the reality: even in the most bizarre race, where Vettel wins and Hamilton scores 0 points, Vettel would trail Hamilton by 41 points with two rounds left.  Meaning that for Vettel to win the WDC, he could do no worse than winning one race and finishing second in the other, with Hamilton only scoring one point between the two races.  Not going to happen.  And even if Vettel won both the remaining races, Hamilton would need just 10 points between the final two races to win the title to hold on.

So, the contact...may have changed who won this race, and certainly changed who was on the podium, but ultimately, it was totally meaningless because there was just no reality in which Vettel could win the championship before the race even began.  I mean, yeah, if Hamilton got hurt and missed the final races, I guess, but come on.

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Debating whether Vettel deliberating hit Hamilton, or did Hamilton deliberately slow?

It does look like Hamilton straightened the car out to make sure he stayed on the track and was not accelerating for a moment. Vettel was clearly accelerating. Not sure if any of it was "deliberate" relative to the other driver, but it was not particularly clever on the part of Vettel. He had already been jumped by Hamilton on the corner, he was not going to be able to get it back any time soon.

Anyhow, Hamilton could have just sat back and taken an easy and safe third place. Good to see him out there racing (for three corners). I do like the guy's spirit.

Congrats to Hamilton on his fourth world championship. Next season should be real interesting (if Red Bull and Max are a factor).

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Ceasar...nice little bit. Thanks.

It appears it started to go awry for Vettel at around 1:16....when he simply tries too hard to stay in the corner when Verstappen already had him beat. This results in Vettel driving into Verstappen and pushing him off the track. He then muffs the next corner to boot. The accident between Hamilton and Vettel was also Vettel's fault, although as the commentator notes with the steering angle, that he had kind of lost control of the car. So...not deliberate, but both collisions were Vettel's fault, not Verstappen nor Hamilton's.

 

 

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We're forgetting a little bit of detail here. Vettel has the inside line at the first corner, which is the racing line. What he could've done, was to push Max totally of track, which he did'nt do

MadMax is once again depending on another driver to make judgement (he's being aggresive because Vettel had to think about his championship chances), so come what may, he was prepared to cause an accident and be aggressive no matter what. Thx for posting the video, it makes it absolutely clear

Perspective guys Perspective

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2 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

We're forgetting a little bit of detail here. Vettel has the inside line at the first corner, which is the racing line. What he could've done, was to push Max totally of track, which he did'nt do

 

Perspective guys Perspective

Perspective or context? Aren't you asking too much?

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37 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

We're forgetting a little bit of detail here. Vettel has the inside line at the first corner, which is the racing line. What he could've done, was to push Max totally of track, which he did'nt do

MadMax is once again depending on another driver to make judgement (he's being aggresive because Vettel had to think about his championship chances), so come what may, he was prepared to cause an accident and be aggressive no matter what. Thx for posting the video, it makes it absolutely clear

Perspective guys Perspecti

 

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