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Sakae

2018 F1 season - discussion

375 posts in this topic


On 26/2/2018 at 5:06 PM, Ruslan said:

A Ferrari F1 series will look a whole lot like Imola 1982.

In all reality, is Ferrari going to set up a separate series that protects its privileged position. If so, who is going to join that series?

Is Ferrari going to design the series so that everyone has an equal chance? If so, why leave F1, where they will still have an advantage?

1 Imola 1982 is a race that has become legendary, if Ferrari could turn up with something of the sort it would be great

2 I think that Bernie explained this quite well: other teams like Mercedes improve their image by beating Ferrari, not by beating Sauber

3 By the looks of things Mercedes and Renault should be on board and I doubt that they would join if they thought that they didn't stand a chance. And that is exactly the point: Liberty wants to take the power away from the engine manufacturers in favour of some independent teams. Independent teams like McLAren or RBR (without the name) have less bargaining power than Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault as they either stay in F1 or go out of business. It looks to me as if Liberty wants to maximise their investment not as if they are trying to pursue the good of the sport

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26 minutes ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

I think that Bernie explained this quite well: other teams like Mercedes improve their image by beating Ferrari, not by beating Sauber

BE must have read my post from several years ago, proposing exactly the same sentiment. (OK, name I used was Marussia, instead Sauber).

Edited by Sakae

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A new series based on Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault would have to be exceptionally spectacular and extreeemely dramatic right out of the box, I think. Because this kind of motor racing is teeth grindingly expensive, and races would have to quickly catch a lot of attention to survive and steal the viewers and sponsors from f1. Otherwise you'd just be dividing the stack of cash in two for the benefit of no one.

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So I think: unlimited aero dynamics unlimited technical development + unlimited electric/fuel cell/drive train development. All testing limited to one practice day before each race weekend - this might force them to gamble with cameras on. And shorter and more burst-like racing maybe like a tournament in the way Race of Champions is run - I think that is a very entertaining concept. Just in case they read this forum. :-D

Edited by Robert Rick

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Third day of testing: drinking lot of coffee, and dreaming about warmer climate.

Quote

RENAULT: CONDITIONS NOT USEFUL FOR DEVELOPING THE CAR

Core issue. I am not surprised by the decision not to compensate for time loss, but I would be far more happier to see all cars as ready as they could be for racing season when they will wait for lights to go off in Australia. This artificial of track handicapping puts me off.

Edited by Sakae

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8 hours ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

1 Imola 1982 is a race that has become legendary, if Ferrari could turn up with something of the sort it would be great

2 I think that Bernie explained this quite well: other teams like Mercedes improve their image by beating Ferrari, not by beating Sauber

3 By the looks of things Mercedes and Renault should be on board and I doubt that they would join if they thought that they didn't stand a chance. And that is exactly the point: Liberty wants to take the power away from the engine manufacturers in favour of some independent teams. Independent teams like McLAren or RBR (without the name) have less bargaining power than Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault as they either stay in F1 or go out of business. It looks to me as if Liberty wants to maximise their investment not as if they are trying to pursue the good of the sport

Well, lets say if they get Mercedes and Renault, who follows? You have three big (improbably huge) budget teams with control of the engine supply. What makes up the rest of the field? Who else would want to be in this series? Will it be a dominated by those three teams with a few "Team B's" to fill out the field? There are lots of problems here.

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1 March 2018, 08:47

Brawn (FOG) is being quoted: 

Quote

“We want the races to be more entertaining and formula one to be economically viable for all ten to 12 healthy teams.

Who is "we"? If pressed for an answer, probably FOG and some teams? People in paddock may say what's politically acceptable, however I am not convinced that "we" includes full Tier 1 cluster, which represents progressive and well off financially elements of the group. This consideration is based precisely on assumption that presence in the sport of individual teams is not focused on the same objectives. I am assuming, as an example, that MB will not object for Force India or Marussia to compete with them, but I bet they will be mighty unhappy with the push for well off teams to surrender their own ideals in favor of FI and Marussia alike, so those might get their way. I don't envision it happening. Situation is certainly heavy, and to opine, if teams will be asked to retool and re-invest into F1 old technology (as some are propagating), I think they will turn instead to massively electric solutions - where future might lead us. Whether it will be in F1, or elsewhere, remains to be seen.   

Edited by Sakae

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17 hours ago, Ruslan said:

Well, lets say if they get Mercedes and Renault, who follows? You have three big (improbably huge) budget teams with control of the engine supply. What makes up the rest of the field? Who else would want to be in this series? Will it be a dominated by those three teams with a few "Team B's" to fill out the field? There are lots of problems here.

the others would follow even if they don't like it because if Ferrari, Mercedea and Renault set up a new championship F1 would be dead and companies like McLaren, Williams etc would go bankrupt. Furthermore who's going to build engines? Cosworth? sure but they need either a very strong budget or a very strong budget cap. The big ones are there to win, and if they can't win they'll go somewhere else. Beside it doesn't really look to me as if Liberty is trying to create a level playing field, they just want to flatten any bargaining power that the engine manufacturers and the teams have, the (crazy) idea of the franchises for the team names is there to prove it.

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McLaren F1 team, should be sponsored by McLaren F1 road car !!!
A number of years ago,  the McLaren F1 road car, WERE the fastest car in the WORLD !!!

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1 March 2018, 16:49 - Ferrari is probably testing new updates, although I am not certain how significant are data collected in this dogy dog weather. Stoffel is turning decent lap numbers though, just as the French rookie Gasly for TR. Good showing. Missing in action at great loss to the sport IMO is absence of Japanese, Brazilians, and Italians. All three (racing) countries should be represented on the racing grid!

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2 hours ago, Sakae said:

Re:...absence of Japanese, Brazilians, and Italians. All three (racing) countries should be represented on the racing grid!

 

Indeed,  when Honda WERE at McLaren.  IF McLaren HAD found a Japanese driver,  likely they would NOT have dumped Honda ($$$$$$$millions$$$$$).
The F1 driver talent is,  just NOT there in Japan

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@lipstick79 I am not in a position to argue with any degree of conviction who is, or isn't ready for F1. What has been however proven, that internet is notoriously unreliable when it comes to stating facts based on credible sources, thus hopes to find capable people are not entirely dead as yet.

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Sorry to see that the current test session wasn't extended for another day, because of the snow that occurred on Wednesday

McLaren good to see that they had covered the number of laps today, without any real drama. I would liked to have seen Vandoorne, and show what he could have done on the soft tire, and not just the ultra soft only.

Mercedes had a decent lap count for the day, and Hamilton's lap time on the mediums was encouraging.

 

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28 minutes ago, Samouri said:

... and Hamilton's lap time on the mediums was encouraging.

 

>Encouraging for whom?

The sport does NOT need further Mercedes domination.
Well DONE to Mercedes in general - they HAVE really got to grips with THIS era.
 

The likes of, Ferrari ...
HAVE really been shamed into SECOND best in this era.
CHUCKIN fuel at the PU will NOT work in THIS era.
Probably WHY Cosworth decided AGAINST it (entry this era).
And JUST the reason that Lotus,  are NOT competitive (this era).

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Depends on how you burn the fuel, when and how you translate it into energy, Otherwise it's all just consumption....

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23 hours ago, lipstick79 said:

>Encouraging for whom?

 

Encouraging for his fans. Especially, because of the limited amount of on track time that Lewis had, in this first test session. To get on the pace, after only 10 taps at being on the track to me was......Encouraging.

Hopefully the weather will be more accommodating for the next test session. So that we can all get a better idea, of what these boy's can really do.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Samouri said:

Hopefully the weather will be more accommodating for the next test session. So that we can all get a better idea, of what these boy's can really do.

 

DON`T count on IT
THIS is TESTING

We DON`T KNOW what the teams ARE testing,  fuel loads ... What configuration PU ...

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On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 8:49 AM, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

the others would follow even if they don't like it because if Ferrari, Mercedea and Renault set up a new championship F1 would be dead and companies like McLaren, Williams etc would go bankrupt. Furthermore who's going to build engines? Cosworth? sure but they need either a very strong budget or a very strong budget cap. The big ones are there to win, and if they can't win they'll go somewhere else. Beside it doesn't really look to me as if Liberty is trying to create a level playing field, they just want to flatten any bargaining power that the engine manufacturers and the teams have, the (crazy) idea of the franchises for the team names is there to prove it.

But what is Ferrari going to offer Mercedes and Renault to go with them? They have to offer them a fair competition. So then, what has Ferrari gained from this? Right now, they have an advantage.

Keep in mind, watching U.S. open wheel racing, we have seen two actual splits...1980 or so when CART split from ACCUS, and then around 1995 when IndyCar split from CART. The first split improved the racing and turned it into a great, multi-aspect, world-class racing series. The second split pretty much turned American open wheel racing in a second-class league, and it has never recovered.

Right now, I gather F1 is the second biggest international sporting series. Liberty has a significant investment in F1...so they have to make it work. If Ferrari split, Liberty is not going to fold. So...two series. Which scenario plays out?

But, as I have always said, I don't think I split will actually ever really occur.

 

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9 hours ago, lipstick79 said:

DON`T count on IT
THIS is TESTING

We DON`T KNOW what the teams ARE testing,  fuel loads ... What configuration PU ...

We'll get somewhat of an idea, at the conclusion of this last test session. To where the top runners  Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull may stand. Hopefully McLaren will come to lead the mid-fielders.

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4 March 2018, 03:12  -  It is debatable whether Ferrari has advantage, as alleged, of any significance compared to teams like RBR and MB. Each team has some advantage of different weight, which seems to be continuously and stubbornly ignored. Mercedes is enjoying regulatory advantage (token system, and a few significant others) for past several years outweighing any money which Ferrari is getting IMO. RBR meanwhile, whilst unlucky with Renault, bulk of their budget is funneled towards vehicle research, something Ferrari cannot afford on that scale. Ferrari, hands handcuffed by restrictions can sit on money but still is burdened by work on catching up on PU and vehicle alike. All of that has been already posted, ready for rebuttal, but as I see, all was also dutifully ignored rather than refuted. The same as with claims how much we "need" imposition of limits on budget.

Edited by Sakae

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There is no question that Mercedes has some advantages (I would argue $700 million of them). They stand to loose if Liberty changes the rules (especially concerning $$$). If Ferrari sets up its own series....what does it offer Mercedes? What does it gain from it.

It is just hard to figure out how a new series is going to work to both Mercedes and Ferrari's advantage. Red Bull, not being an engine manufacturer, has no reason to follow Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault into this alleged new series. Of course, I don't think it will ever happen. Ferrari is going to huff and puff, and certainly Mercedes will whine, and then Liberty will come up with some compromise or middle ground, and we will temporarily have peace.

 

 

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