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radical-one

Grand Prix Canada 2018

16 posts in this topic

Some say that by Canadian GP, we will know the real pecking order.

It will be really closer than last season for the top 3 teams and the rest will be a toss up as well.

Looking forward to see the which team is where.

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Don't drop the ball this time Ferrari. No mistakes !

Vettel should pole to win in Canada !

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11 June 2018, 07:24 (CEST)  Uncompetitive races of two cars with cheap victories to their credit over past several years turned into Saturdays of hope with tier 1 cars finishing fraction of seconds apart, a new phenomenon - and culminating with a competitive race of six cars on Sunday. Good stuff delivered by Seb, and then some excuses - as expected - in known quarters, however I do continue to think that tires play far too much of role in this, just as less dependency on fuel limits would probably improve the show almost immediately. Ocon, Gasly and LeClerc - all are probably worthy candidates for promotions into better seats. Very talented young blood.

 

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41 minutes ago, Sakae said:

culminating with a competitive race of six cars on Sunday

I missed the last 15 laps, but to me it didn't look like a very competitive race of six cars, more like a procession of 6 cars. It looks as if we are used to such poor racing that when we see two cars split by 5 seconds we call it "close racing" :rolleyes: In a sense yesterday was even worse than Monaco, in Monaco they don't have the space to overtake, yesterday they didn't even try

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3 hours ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

I missed the last 15 laps, but to me it didn't look like a very competitive race of six cars, more like a procession of 6 cars. It looks as if we are used to such poor racing that when we see two cars split by 5 seconds we call it "close racing" :rolleyes: In a sense yesterday was even worse than Monaco, in Monaco they don't have the space to overtake, yesterday they didn't even try

11 June 2018, 10:37 (CEST) - True, it's far from perfect, for cars cannot follow each other without some damage to tires, which is known shortcoming. Point however made earlier, power wise, I think there is now a competitive power zone occupied by Renault, MB and Ferrari. Bottas could have challenged Vettel with his equipment, but IMO the leading driver made all difference in controlling the race to his benefit. Saturday Bottas was lagging about a car length behind P1 after slugging it on 4.4 km long lap.It was that close.

To explain the poor racing, someone should ask them about it. I do not buy their explanations- I was running out of fuel, my engine was too old, etc.

I should have added, despite my long history with the sport, when, if ever, F1 was like NASCAR or CART...? CART was probably the most competitive racing in open car category that was similar to the F1.

F1 was always a story of 2 or 3 cars on Sunday afternoon.

Edited by Sakae

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1 hour ago, Sakae said:

To explain the poor racing, someone should ask them about it. I do not buy their explanations- I was running out of fuel, my engine was too old, etc.

I don't think that they are lying when they give such explanations for their lack of any racing, it is true that they have to look after the fuel especially on tracks with very long straights (like Montreal), it's true that they all have to look after their enegines because an engine has to last sooooo long (and yesterday there were cars with engines that had done 7 races, it's as if to say that in the 60ies each driver was using a single engine per season :wacko: ), they have to look after the tyres, the improved aerodynamics mean that if they get anywhere near the car in front they lose all grip and risk damaging the tyres, if on top of that they get close to the car in front and take a punt at passing they risk being given a 10 seconds penalty. I think that it's only natural that they don't take too many risks, they would be fool if they did, Versbatten takes risks and as a consequence he's deemed not very smart. The lack of any form of racing has nothing to do with track configuration, Montreal is a great track that has always given us great races, but it's all down with the rules. I don't see how the budget cap can cure that, we'd rather need an aero-cap, and tyres that last the whole distance, and a choice of engines. 

IMHO the problem is that they are not even trying to improve the racing, all they seem to do is try to increase the unpredictability of the races, IMHO that is wrong because if I want to watch an unpredictable car event I go and watch wacko racers not F1. 

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4 hours ago, Publius Cornelius Scipio said:

IMHO the problem is that they are not even trying to improve the racing, all they seem to do is try to increase the unpredictability of the races, IMHO that is wrong because if I want to watch an unpredictable car event I go and watch wacko racers not F1. 

That's not a new trend, as surely you know. We were discussing precisely this unfortunate aspect several years ago already, yet nothing has changed in attitude of regulators. Cars should be able to follow up each other in very, very close proximity. If they don't fix it, city races will be pretty boring events, that is, even more so than they are now. CART knew how to do it. 

Vettel chimed in.

Edited by Sakae

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You could solve almost all of F1's on-track issues by bringing back refueling.  Q3 must be done on starting race fuel load.  Hell, if you really need to keep the 100 kg of fuel limit, do it—just don't require them to run all 100 kg at once.  Divide it up however you want, and get rid of any fuel flow rate limits.

The truth is that you cannot have an exciting race unless, at some point, a faster car is behind a slower car.  There are only two ways to accomplish this:

(1) Strategy.  Cars on alternate strategies shuffle the field; this means sometimes slower cars are ahead of faster cars.  Yet F1 has no fuel strategy anymore, and it barely has any tire strategy (which, plainly, got to be a bit too dangerous, even if exciting, so refueling is the better route).  IndyCar puts on some great races on tight tracks because of fuel strategy; the field will split on two-stop vs. three-stop and the three-stop drivers will push like hell to try to make up a full pit stop delta.  I highly recommend watching the second Detroit race from this year as an example of how fun this is.  If everyone did two stops or everyone did three stops, as they would in Formula One, the race would've been dull as s##t.  Likewise, NASCAR is dull as s##t, too, because everyone just pits at the same time under caution, so, by all pitting the way the leader pits, no one can beat the leader because the leader clearly has the fastest car and if you run the leader's strategy, you have to beat the leader on pace, which you can't do.  You desperately need fuel strategy.  It's the only way to make a race interesting.

(2) Have qualifying regulations that don't reflect the race regulations.  But this is more expensive than strategy and less effective because it only puts potentially slower cars ahead of potentially faster cars at the start; it gets sorted out quickly.  Still, it can help; IndyCar qualifies with extra boost for the Indy 500, and people "trim out" (taking all the downforce off the car to reduce drag—radical wing angles, all winglets removed from the undertray, etc.) like crazy, so the starting lineup for the Indy 500 hasn't really reflected the true pecking order for the race in this era of the rules.  In F1's case, having Q3 done on starting race fuel load, as it used to be, can put a lighter, but overall slower, car on pole, and create some intrigue.

Yes, it'd help if the aerodynamic regulations allowed cars to run closer together without issue, but the truth is...how often do the cars actually run close together?  Sure, Monaco and Montréal, but in most races, they're pretty spread apart.  So, you can do all you want to facilitate overtaking, but if you don't do anything to create the situations when overtakes happen—faster cars trailing slower ones, as accomplished by fuel strategy—what good does it do?

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The best part of the race, Checkered FLAG :icon2_flag:

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12 June 2018, 09:43 (CEST) - Cars can run close together, however dirty air destabilizes following car. Moreover, extended heat exposure destroys life cycle of tire (blisters, etc.) thus drivers do avoid such situations and stay behind in "safe" distance.  They (I am not sure who are they these days) need to do something about it.

Overtaking strategy is now reduced to two components; better pit stop, and/or run on a long straights if superior equipment allows it. Occasionally there are of course rare exceptions and driver can put together good overtake. Verstappen's strategy of moving chicanes should be called out, instead being tolerated.

Edited by Sakae

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50 minutes ago, radical-one said:

The best part of the race, Checkered FLAG :icon2_flag:

...as reported - she is not into the F1, just into Hamilton.

There are changes on the way to make sure miscommunication between tower and flag platform will be avoided.

Vettel was quoting Alain Prost - "My job is to win a race at slowest speed possible", something which will not please too many people. :)

Edited by Sakae

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2 hours ago, Sakae said:

...as reported - she is not into the F1, just into Hamilton.

There are changes on the way to make sure miscommunication between tower and flag platform will be avoided.

Vettel was quoting Alain Prost - "My job is to win a race at slowest speed possible", something which will not please too many people. :)

In this current hybrid era with 3 engine rule restriction, probably the best quote ever

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It looks as if Lewis had some terrible luck over the weekend at Canada, that was beyond his control.

During qualifying in Q3 Hamilton was -.079 faster than Vettel going into the hairpin, until he locked up, which may have been caused, because  the remains of a bird was later discovered in a brake duct.

At the start....the start of the race Hamilton was down on power,  because of an over heating engine, which cost him performance in the opening  stint.

 

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13 June 2018, 18:38 (CEST)

Brawn: The races like in Canada is bad for the sport.

Don't say. Where have you been for past several years when Hamilton and Rosberg drove alone and finished 20 to 30 sec ahead of everyone else? That was good for the sport? Saturday in Q3 Bottas was just a fraction of the second apart from Vettel in P2. I would classify that as closely matched competition.

Moreover, I am somewhat suspicious that low budget while probably drained by now likes Haas due to cost of high attrition rate, almost certainly would not save likes Williams. Either you know what you are doing, or you don't, and big budget is not the answer to all evils. (Ask Toyota.)

Edited by Sakae

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Maybe Brawn should go back fishing and gardening. He disappoints me. 

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20 hours ago, Sakae said:

and big budget is not the answer to all evils. (Ask Toyota.)

This should B made clearer to Red Bull & Honda

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