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Sakae

Pre Season Testing 2020

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Re: 
could simply limit a pit stop to 6 people "over the wall." It is a simple rule that would make things a little more sane
> A BIT POINTLESS and unsporting

By ALLOWING MORE than the proposed 6 people.
It ALLOWS for confusion and misdirection - What R they doin 2 the car, what is changin ?
It ALLOWS variety IN a limited variable environment

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13 hours ago, Ruslan said:

Welcome back. Hopefully things are better for you now. In my opinion the pecking order is already pretty much established last season and is being confirmed by testing. It is:

1. Mercedes - perhaps not seriously contested.

2. Red Bull - they may be challenged by Ferrari and they will need both drivers to score points.

3. Ferrari - they may be able to challenge Rwd Bull, especially as they have two very strong drivers, but they will need to get their act together. Right now all indications are that they don’t have their act together.

4. Mclaren - uncontested. They will not win any races this season but will be helped by their new Mercedes engine.

5. Renault - not sure why their budget situation is but last year they were spending welll below the cap.

6. Racing Point - I think they are going to be best of the rest. Certainly a whole lot better off financially then they were two seasons ago.

7: Alfa - these guys are getting better. Giovanazi seems to finally be getting his legs.

8. Toro Russo renamed - they may well challenge for 7th or 6th. Hard to say with their talented and inconsistent Red Bull reject drivers.

9. Haas - the limits of their kit car concept. They are now being surpassed by real teams with real development. The kit car approach has reached its natural dead end.

10. Williams - but they won’t suck as bad as last year.

Things to watch (as I think it will otherwise be a dull season):

1. Vettel versus Leclerc: Does  Vettel re-establish himself in the first half of the season?

2. Ricciardo versus Ocon: Are they equal? Who is better? This one is going to be fun as they are both outgoing and sparkling characters.

3. Preparation for 2021. The budget cap is coming, so i think a lot of teams are going to be working up for the next year as much as they can now.

Thanks Ruslan I am doing better than before given all situations.

Thanks for the update/headsup. It is much more than I was expecting for information  -)

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I never understood strategy of sandbagging, therefore not surprisingly I am not in understanding what is Ferrari up to. Impression I have after all that testing performance, that they are probably in massive trouble, and I let them to prove me wrong in the first race.

Ferrari did not let Vettel shine, since based on published data, it looks like that he was deprived of a single qualifying lap, and his race pace, claiming they did not "sandbagging" is then definitely good for beating Williams. Beyond that its anyone's guess what they are up to. Leclerc will have to run qualification pace, since the team needs a baseline for developing race strategy based on predicted grid position.

Sadly for me, the team bias is surfacing earlier than I thought, but truthfully said, I was sort of expecting something like that can happen, when they announced testing schedule, since last day is usually fastest, but (perceived) scheming still hurts.

Edited by Sakae

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FI commentary:

Quote

Speaking of the team in pink, Ferrari boss Mattia Binotto was asked on Day 2 whether Racing Point posed a threat with their Mercedes-like RP20, and this is what he had to say: "I think they are certainly very close. I think it’s not surprising if you look at the shape of their car. Certainly, they are a threat but I’m convinced as well that Ferrari as a team are strong enough to develop the car going onwards..."

This is where we are with F1. Basically we take it as "normal", that car is not race-ready in full potential from day one, and as fans paying full price of admission, the team does testing new developments (and maybe also little of racing for fun). A few years back Alonso actually admitted that McLaren was using whole season on tracks as developing grounds. Money people really turn world we live in upside down. I watch F1 for very long time, yet I do not really recall in the past that anyone would be talking about future developments more than they are about race quality; move here, move there, anticipation, surprise, happiness or tears. World is different today, no doubt about it.

Edited by Sakae

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2 hours ago, Sakae said:

I never understood strategy of sandbagging, therefore not surprisingly I am not in understanding what is Ferrari up to. Impression I have after all that testing performance, that they are probably in massive trouble, and I let them to prove me wrong in the first race.

Ferrari did not let Vettel shine, since based on published data, it doesn't looks like that he was sent on a single qualifying lap, and his race pace definitely is good for beating Williams. Beyond that its anyone's guess. Leclerc will have to run qualification pace, since the team needs a baseline for developing race strategy based on predicted grid position.

Sadly for me, the team bias is surfacing earlier than I thought, but truthfully said, I was sort of expecting something like that can happen, when they announced testing schedule, since last day is usually fastest, but (perceived) scheming still hurts.

There was never any sandbagging from Ferrari I believe. They are just trying to understand their car better, how the car responds...checking the fundamentals. Vettel showing sum speed yesterday proves it, although I think they've turned down the wick abit, but not for the sandbag reason

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29 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

There was never any sandbagging from Ferrari I believe. They are just trying to understand their car better, how the car responds...checking the fundamentals. Vettel showing sum speed yesterday proves it, although I think they've turned down the wick abit, but not for the sandbag reason

I accept what you are stating Brad, however I thought checking systems is job for the Day 1. In dying hours yesterday I was expecting Vettel to check his setup and aero in full race speeds. Car will behave differently as you know under those conditions. I do recall Schumacher after leaving a track in top speed, he used to explain, how do you know where your limits are, unless you go over it?

Vettel, after testing in low speeds still might not know what are limits of his car, and finding it in Melbourne after hitting a wall will not be best way to lunch the season. Observing his spins, my guess is that he and his car are still not in full synch with his driving style in turns (as he excelled while racing with RBR). Horner used to say that Seb was winning not as much because car was fast, but in turns. He beaten all that way. (Recall hiw win Singapore.) Ferrari of late is different.

Edited by Sakae

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1 hour ago, Sakae said:

I accept what you are stating Brad, however I thought checking systems is job for the Day 1. In dying hours yesterday I was expecting Vettel to check his setup and aero in full race speeds. Car will behave differently as you know under those conditions. I do recall Schumacher after leaving a track in top speed, he used to explain, how do you know where your limits are, unless you go over it?

Vettel, after testing in low speeds still might not know what are limits of his car, and finding it in Melbourne after hitting a wall will not be best way to lunch the season. Observing his spins, my guess is that he and his car are still not in full synch with his driving style in turns (as he excelled while racing with RBR). Horner used to say that Seb was winning not as much because car was fast, but in turns. He beaten all that way. (Recall hiw win Singapore.) Ferrari of late is different.

" Sebastian Vettel, however - finally at the top of the timesheets on Thursday - revealed: "We have also turned up the performance now and then, but in laps when no one was looking."

In the olden days..this could apply.."I do recall Schumacher after leaving a track in top speed, he used to explain, how do you know where your limits are, unless you go over it?" They had entire track to do testing themselves!! Here, too many eyes...Drivers already feel and know the limits of the car after a few days in c#ckpit. In Melbourne (or wherever first race is) they can start exploring the limits. Did'nt Merc that for the last 5 years? Wayyy enuff time...

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" 12:58 Leclerc takes over top spot with a 1m16.457s, despite being some 30km/h down in the speedtrap on Raikkonen in the Ferrari-powered Alfar Romeo."

 

Still running with de-tuned engines

Edited by BradSpeedMan

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Mercedes since 2014 never had to drive to track limits. No one could come even close and challenge them. Schumacher didn't have that luxury. Hakkinen was on his heels every race.

While I admit some drivers know the track and car over years, but these days manipulation of tire compounds each season and resulting unpredictability of their characteristics under different temperatures still makes testing limits necessary, methinks.  

Maybe my brain is collecting too much dust, because I have no clue what is Binotto doing.

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4 minutes ago, Sakae said:

Mercedes since 2014 never had to drive to track limits. No one could come even close and challenge them. Schumacher didn't have that luxury. Hakkinen was on his heels every race.

While I admit some drivers know the track and car over years, but these days manipulation of tire compounds each season and resulting unpredictability of their characteristics under different temperatures still makes testing limits necessary, methinks.  

Maybe my brain is collecting too much dust, because I have no clue what is Binotto doing.

I am of course, talking about testing. Understanding Car Behaviour etc

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Where is Murray Walker when you need him. He was the one man who could make sense out of senseless situation, in contrast to those two boz**s commenting on testing...

I am glad it's over. Leclerc driving three race distances in one day will have bloodshot eyes.

Edited by Sakae

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Seb, Leclerc, Verstappen, Perez, Ocon...all realistic candidates vying for P2- P5.  It is going to be crowded. P1 is reserved to that certain special person, and Bottas will be allowed to play defense for him. Perez might fall off later due to lack of resources. Ocon probably shows up only on some races, but RBR is something else. I think they are serious, and I am happy for Honda.

Ferrari is in precarious position compared to the past.Too much of plying defense will slow them down.

Seb for example continues complaining about the same issues that haunted him last year (car balance).

I am not renewing F1 data subscription or TV channel. 

Edited by Sakae

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YAWN

"We had to stop due to an engine problem, whose exact cause we will investigate back in Maranello - we are now fitting a new engine so will be back on track in the afternoon."

Seb HAS Never WON without THE best CAR

DON`T see this changin ON 2020 season


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6 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Tell you what.. Those fast laps Verstappen did on those C4's toward the end... scary!!!

They were sandbagging I knew it.

Another scary team are the Pink Panty Merc clone. 

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13 hours ago, lipstick79 said:

Seb HAS Never WON without THE best CAR

Who has? 

There is an old propaganda technique -- mostly deployed by politicians -- "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it". The same claims are found in this sport. For example, "Vettel had best car for four years". Really, how so? Which study proves that, or is it just inference because his rivals lost? People have short memory of competitive circumstances under which he won. It is noted at the same time, you do not feel necessary to address situation in racing after y. 2013 with Mercedes and their boys.

There is difference between best car (dubious claim to make sitting behind a computer at home), and a car good enough to be competitive in the front tier, which RB actually was, and and in hands of the driver it finished the job. Somewhere on the internet one could find statements from McLaren, that their car was just as good, if not better in many races, yet that means nothing here?

Second myth propagated often in this sport is, that teammates do have "the same car, therefore contest between them is accurate indicator who is better". I am not sure what better is in that context, but I can think of many technical reasons why such claim of car equality is absurd and fallacy.

Team is permitted two, very similar cars, yet in reality those aren't the same. There are obvious technical differences carried over from manufacturing and assembly and which can make all difference how car feels on the track. Differences in setup for track outing is another one. Diifferences in design which very seldom complements individualism of both driving styles can treat drivers differently, and there are many more similar factors making such comparisons of driver's skills difficult. Most pronounced in recent years such case was Ferrari designed for Alonso, and Kimi had to drive, yet it didn't stop people praise Alonso, and dump on his teammate. People forgot when Hamilton lost a race or two to Rosberg, he immediately blamed on his setup, and his fan base accepted that he was wronged by hate of his crew. Internally, Torger was consequently forced, just for PR reasons and to calm his front driver, to change (switch) technical crews, as Hamilton demanded better mechanics which Rosberg allegedly had. 

But who cares about truth or facts, when intent is to pile up on Vettel?

Life is complicated. Human mind is complicated. This sport is complicated. The season starts in two weeks.

Edited by Sakae

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Most often repeated word in all testing by F1 media: UNLEASH

This morning its back in news, so obviously they aren't tired of it as yet.

It's going to be long day. Brace yourselves.

Edited by Sakae

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In the news:

  1. FiA has closed investigation of Ferrari's alleged violation of technical directives in processing fuel.
  2. The team were not found to have broken the regulations.
  3. Conclusion in detail of the investigation was not published. 
  4. It was also agreed that Ferrari would assist the FIA in "other regulatory duties in Formula 1 and in its research activities on carbon emissions and sustainable fuels".

My opinion:

FiA must have been impressed how ingeniously Ferrari explored legally a loophole in regulation, but for sake of keeping peace in the family, they must have asked the team not to use it anymore. Ferrari must know about fuel little more than most in the paddock, and FiA is taking an advantage of it. (Point #4 above.)

Nothing to see here, move on. Financial penalty to Ferrari for fuel deviation on Leclerc's car was unrelated to the above.

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Re: 4. Mclaren - uncontested. They will not win any races this season but will be helped by their new Mercedes engine.

UNTRUE   Ruslan

Mclaren WILL continue 2 B powered by Renault for 2020
The Mercedes customer deal does NOT start until 2021
 

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1 hour ago, lipstick79 said:

 

Re: Who has? 
Our Nige - HAS/DID.  The British bulldog Nigel Mansell

I don't think so.

Edited by Sakae

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2 hours ago, lipstick79 said:

Seb HAS Never WON without THE best CAR

Re: Who has? 
Our Nige - HAS/DID.  The British bulldog Nigel Mansell

Thats just plain silly. Seb never had a .4-1sec advantage over his rivals in those RBR years. Contrast that to Merc in the last 5 years. 

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On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2020 at 5:16 PM, lipstick79 said:

Re: 
could simply limit a pit stop to 6 people "over the wall." It is a simple rule that would make things a little more sane
> A BIT POINTLESS and unsporting

By ALLOWING MORE than the proposed 6 people.
It ALLOWS for confusion and misdirection - What R they doin 2 the car, what is changin ?
It ALLOWS variety IN a limited variable environment

Indy Car has been doing it forever (except the limit is 5 and there is often an actual wall separating the rest of the pits from where the cars are). If is of course, a big safety issue. What happens if a car losses control as it is entering a pit of 18 people?

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