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Ruslan

Revised Formula One Plans

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4 hours ago, Ruslan said:

 Number of teams owned by the Brits: Maybe one (if Williams has not be taken over by Michael Latifi for all practical purposes). 


> U R FORGETTIN the guys IN Woking - Mclaren
Have ALWAYS been Brits.  Previously partly sold 2 Honda but remained a British TEAM, powered By Renault (last season).
Before returnin 2 bein a Mercedes CUSTOMER.
This bein consistent.  Followin theories.  I suggest what WILL probably happen is.
Mercedes sellin up the works team, and withdrawin on a HIGH probably UNBEATEN as a constructor in the hybrid era.
Continuin with Mclaren as a customer AGAIN.
With Mclaren once MORE becomin the, UNOFFICIAL works team.  Similar 2 the situation with the mp4 Mercedes under Ron Dennis. 

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On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 1:58 PM, lipstick79 said:


> U R FORGETTIN the guys IN Woking - Mclaren
Have ALWAYS been Brits.  Previously partly sold 2 Honda but remained a British TEAM, powered By Renault (last season).
Before returnin 2 bein a Mercedes CUSTOMER.
This bein consistent.  Followin theories.  I suggest what WILL probably happen is.
Mercedes sellin up the works team, and withdrawin on a HIGH probably UNBEATEN as a constructor in the hybrid era.
Continuin with Mclaren as a customer AGAIN.
With Mclaren once MORE becomin the, UNOFFICIAL works team.  Similar 2 the situation with the mp4 Mercedes under Ron Dennis. 

According to Wikipedia the McLaren Group is owned:

56.4% by Mumtalakat Holding Company

14.32% by TAG Group Limited (Mansour Ojjeh - French/Saudi)

9.84% by Nidala (BVI) Limited (Michael Latifi - Canadian, father of the new Williams driver)

5.78% by Favorita Limited

5.77% by Permlan Investments Limited

5.24% by McKal Hodlings Ltd.

2.65% by Acanitt Limited

Mumtalakat Holding Company is the sovereign wealth fund of the government of the Kingdom of Bahrain. It is headquartered in Bahrain. The Chairman of Khalid bin Abdullah Al Khalifi, who is the deputy prime minister of Bahrain and a member of the royal family. The CEO in Khalid Al Rumaihi.

The chief executive officer for McLaren Racing Lmited is American (Zak Brown) and the team principal is German (Andreas Seidl).

This does not look very British.

 

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The chief executive officer for McLaren Racing Lmited is American (Zak Brown) and the team principal is German (Andreas Seidl).

This does not look very British.

Those R EMPLOYEES of the team, .

McLaren Racing Limited is a British motor racing team based at the McLaren Technology Centre, Woking, Surrey, England. Wikipedia

^^ That looks VERY British

 

PS: I have actually been a guest of Ron Dennis at the MTC

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Not to quibble over minority share holders making a team "British", Ruslan forgot to add, that founder of the company, Bruce McLaren, wasn't Brit either. Returning back to my original point before this exchange started, despite that most of money and F1 property located in UK is actually non-British, Brits seems to have far too much say over direction series is taking.

I would like to see restoring traditional GP racing which engages numerous (global) automakers free of over-restrictive shackles and return series to places where it all started in Europe. 100 years ago GP was a matter of prestige and way how to promote brand for car companies (nothing about money machine). That of course changed. From day one F1 become tool to make money for narrow interest, and yes, some racing too. Results of that philosophy are in.

Automakers need to separate and return to control how their hard earned cash is used.

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7 hours ago, Sakae said:

Bruce McLaren, wasn't Brit either.

But the MOST IMPORTANT part is their HQ R in Woking with the factory.
Though most of the parts R shipped/flown in and assembled.
The British Ron Dennis the saviour, who turned the team around when he combined his Project 4 organisation WITH Mclaren (MP4).
Though he were ultimately proved their downfall, with the Honda project.
The Mclaren HQ still remained in Woking UK

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27 minutes ago, lipstick79 said:

But the MOST IMPORTANT part is their HQ R in Woking with the factory.
Though most of the parts R shipped/flown in and assembled.
The British Ron Dennis the saviour, who turned the team around when he combined his Project 4 organisation WITH Mclaren (MP4).
Though he were ultimately proved their downfall, with the Honda project.
The Mclaren HQ still remained in Woking UK

Word "still" should be bolded. Ruslan, perceptive fellow he is, expressed succinctly earlier on:

Quote

Zak Brown is speaking out about Red Bull and Ferrari not reducing the budget cap strongly indicates to me that there are some big issues here.

My take? Should Vettel stay with Ferrari, it would be nice if Andreas shuffle across and replace Mattia. It's not going to happen, I know, but one can dream, as there is nothing better to do anyway.

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On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2020 at 2:09 AM, lipstick79 said:

The chief executive officer for McLaren Racing Lmited is American (Zak Brown) and the team principal is German (Andreas Seidl).

This does not look very British.

Those R EMPLOYEES of the team, .

McLaren Racing Limited is a British motor racing team based at the McLaren Technology Centre, Woking, Surrey, England. Wikipedia

^^ That looks VERY British

 

PS: I have actually been a guest of Ron Dennis at the MTC

I gather Ron Dennis does not have any ownership in McLaren these days.

It appears to be a Bahrain owned team.

The majority of the employees in most F1 teams are British.

 

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10 minutes ago, Ruslan said:

I gather Ron Dennis does not have any ownership in McLaren these days.

Indeed, around the time Ron Sold out 2 Honda.  When Mclaren brought BACK into F1 as works Honda.
Ron sold most of his Mclaren shares. But kept a small amount, so he would still have a financial interest in the team. 
The Honda project failed, but because Ron kept an amount of shares, he were STILL on the board.
It were around the time of/with Renault power he decided to sever the ties.
Relinquishing his shares in Mclaren.  
Though he COULD have/will buy shares again when Mclaren RETURN 2 Mercedes power.
Though that deal were NOT WITH Ron on the board at the time of agreement.
When Ron were previously at Mclaren.  Mclaren Mercedes were the UNOFFICIAL works team for Mercedes.
It also seems likely now that the Mercedes Works team could leave F1.  
Had Ron STILL been on the Mclaren board - it is possible that Mclaren could return to their previous status,
being the unofficial works team Mclaren Mercedes
 

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Date 2020.04.23   Time 5:57 (UTC) - FERRARI BUDGET

We will consider leaving

I do realize some may welcome the news, and while the headline is fresh, I am waiting for a few flippant remarks from sidelines about door hitting you on your way out, however I do however agree with him, or rather with Ferrari's position. There is no point to repeat what was discussed on various bulletin boards n-times already, and I am sure he is merely conveying a message from the Executives. 

It will be interesting how Mercedes will respond. I also suspect that without Mercedes and Ferrari, you have a whole new racing series. It might still be called F1, but I would rather watch GP series as soon that is available. 

First smart comments are begging popping up - the only way to make it fair to all, is to standardize everything. It was clearly expected where we are heading. I should have called this post more aptly - KILLING F1.

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Date 2020.04.24   Time 6:56 (UTC) - BUDGET TALK

Rhetoric is heating up between McLaren and Ferrari. Mr. Brown feels free to let himself go, after all, its Ferrari he is shooting at, so what could go wrong, right? I would however termed uncalled for, and unjustified nastiness is creeping in.

1. Brown is out of line, IMHO. Deal was initially discussed and agreed on 200 MM+ yet some teams broke it, and are ready to do so again. It was not Ferrari who broke a deal. (i-agree to imposing budget, ii-a budget at least in part accommodating big teams / that's how it started.)

2. Binotto has not outright rejected suggested 2nd or 3rd change, but wants to evaluate consequences of such change before committing his team, and Brown doesn't like delay on decision.

3. Brown also changed topic from budget and accused basically Binotto/Ferrari what amounts to unethical behavior vis a vis engine saga. That was totally inappropriate from the American. He has no grounds for such declarations. If he wanted to really know what was going on, McLaren should have launched official request for investigation. It seems not a single team has done it in period allotted for complains. 

Binotto behaves like a responsible engineer in this case. Methodical, analytical, thoughtful person. I cannot say, from what was published, the same about Mr. Brown, despite GPBlog editorial (of course) sided with McLaren.

I would ask, how a team spending what -- 400 MM+? -- suddenly change all to 100 without impact analysis? WT*

This begs a question, what happened to McLaren finances? Sounds like they are either scarping bottom of the barrel, or he is a spokesman for Williams or whoever. This is not what one would expect from a member of series bornt on excesses. 

I am hoping Vettel ignores that team, and more I learn about the top, I do feel sorry for Andreas already. I think he will face horrific time with his boss, and at the end they will place a blame on him as they have on Éric, and when they placed on Honda. (As we know Honda had a word or two to say about their time there). 

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6 hours ago, Sakae said:

Date 2020.04.24   Time 6:56 (UTC) - BUDGET TALK

Rhetoric is heating up between McLaren and Ferrari. Mr. Brown feels free to let himself go, after all, its Ferrari he is shooting at, so what could go wrong, right? I would however termed uncalled for, and unjustified nastiness is creeping in.

1. Brown is out of line, IMHO. Deal was initially discussed and agreed on 200 MM+ yet some teams broke it, and are ready to do so again. It was not Ferrari who broke a deal. (i-agree to imposing budget, ii-a budget at least in part accommodating big teams / that's how it started.)

2. Binotto has not outright rejected suggested 2nd or 3rd change, but wants to evaluate consequences of such change before committing his team, and Brown doesn't like delay on decision.

3. Brown also changed topic from budget and accused basically Binotto/Ferrari what amounts to unethical behavior vis a vis engine saga. That was totally inappropriate from the American. He has no grounds for such declarations. If he wanted to really know what was going on, McLaren should have launched official request for investigation. It seems not a single team has done it in period allotted for complains. 

Binotto behaves like a responsible engineer in this case. Methodical, analytical, thoughtful person. I cannot say, from what was published, the same about Mr. Brown, despite GPBlog editorial (of course) sided with McLaren.

I would ask, how a team spending what -- 400 MM+? -- suddenly change all to 100 without impact analysis? WT*

This begs a question, what happened to McLaren finances? Sounds like they are either scarping bottom of the barrel, or he is a spokesman for Williams or whoever. This is not what one would expect from a member of series bornt on excesses. 

I am hoping Vettel ignores that team, and more I learn about the top, I do feel sorry for Andreas already. I think he will face horrific time with his boss, and at the end they will place a blame on him as they have on Éric, and when they placed on Honda. (As we know Honda had a word or two to say about their time there). 

<<1. Brown is out of line, IMHO.>>

I don't think so. He as always been responsible and measured in his responses ever since he took over. The fact that he is speaking up now, indicates to me that there are very real issues. When the "peasants are revolting" it is probably worthwhile to figure out why they are revolting, and find a way to at least partially address their concerns. Otherwise......

<<3. Brown also changed topic from budget and accused basically Binotto/Ferrari what amounts to unethical behavior vis a vis engine saga.>>

It is quite clear that this was the case. For at least 4 races Ferrari had a clever cheat that allowed them to temporarily bypass the fuel flow meter. The subsequent investigation and resolution was "political" to say the least. Now, the people that were most affected by this were Mercedes and Red Bull (who both complained in various forms), but McLaren was one of the competitors. It is certainly within their rights to bring this issue up if everything has not been clearly revolved (which is clearly the case).

One will note that the arguments and complaints are not against Mercedes or Red Bull (who finished in the top three in the championship) but specifically against Ferrari. It is an issue with a specific team over their actions.

 

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Revolting or not, he has his position, Ferrari has theirs. Right now as I see it, Ferrari already back off a few times, and Brown has given up nothing. 

After Binotto said they have to think ethically about people who will lose jobs with decreased budget, Brown was enraged by that comment, latched on the word, switched conversation onto different subject, and attacked Binotto's ethics, implying that Binotto has no right to talk about ethics, for his unethical behavior over engine investigation results. 

I repeat, FIA already stated at least once, that all teams were once in a position to force FiA into the same investigation per existing procedures after submitting complain, and have report handed over to them. No one has done it, including Brown. Blaming finger is now pointing into wrong direction.

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Date 2020.05.04   Time 18:15 (UTC) - BUDGET

Budget set at 145 MM (for start). I am not in a position to evaluate accurately impact of this change, but there is going to be a lot of people hurting. That much is certain.

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That was the compromise figure, after Ferrari dug in its heals. McLaren and I gather several other teams wanted it lower.

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21 hours ago, Ruslan said:

That was the compromise figure, after Ferrari dug in its heals. McLaren and I gather several other teams wanted it lower.

Well, it was not only Ferrari. They are however serving as everyone's favorite punching bag. Mercedes initially wanted the same, yet now they are quiet, and RBR also was for higher budget. In fact, Horner wanted two budgets. It's probably more fun to kick people outside borders, so he got away with his ideas without anyone kicking his sheen.

Brawn promised to "poor people" of F1 they get their wish later on.

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Keep in mind that the person strongly arguing for lower budget caps (McLaren) is the 4th richest team on the grid.

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10 hours ago, Ruslan said:

Keep in mind that the person strongly arguing for lower budget caps (McLaren) is the 4th richest team on the grid.

I am thinking about these issues in different perspective. Watering down unique blend of technology and human element submitting itself to a danger associated with high speed is probably a path to oblivion for the series. If I have to choose whether GP proper or McLaren should survive, I choose former with hope some teams will leave, and new entrants from Industrial sector will come in with competition on more balanced footing. Having said that, spending hundreds of millions is probably unnecessary, but at the same time we should not run it on shoestring budget either. Both extremes are self-defeating, however those are internal (mother ship) controlled budgets corresponding to prevailing global economy conditions.

Impact of pandemic is serious, no doubt about it, but still, viability of F1 existence should be re-examined. BMW and VW have done it many years ago, Mercedes might be doing it as we chatting here. Ferrari is thinking about exit as well, I have no doubt about it. Either this lovely past time is suited for era we live in, or we should let it die, because other life priorities take precedent. Changing character drastically of the series may be a step too far which may satisfy no one, but very few. Drivers come and go. Teams come and go. Series come and go. That's the pattern, and F1 is no exception.

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Date 2020.05.12   Time 5:09 (UTC)

Mandatory reading for Ruslan.

I've been saying the same for years. (Is Horner perusing some forums? :D )

I repeat for n-time:

- racing space shuttle cost a lot

- simple car, simple life cost less

- technical regulations leading to a simple car is cost effective control MO

- imposition of budgets will solve exactly nothing (sorry for all you good folks)

 

Grand Prix DNA is attractive exceptionalism, hard to get in, hard to live in, but always part of a dream every small boy. I do recall hearing about Louis Chiron, I was driving my wooden cart like Chiron. That was my dream. (Mind you, i didn't have iPhone then.)  

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I am not certain how credible internet is (to stay on safe side, probably very little), but it sounds like Spa and Silverstone tracks could potentially cover four events between them. I am frankly lost how it is going to be a show without fans executed at Spa, considering track topology.

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Brown wants mandated team's budget (not sure at what level) to include engines and driver's salaries. The engines are too expensive and too complex, said he. Maybe he thinks Mercedes must give him engines for free or below production cost. From other side, maybe it's just his tactics how to chase these engines out from F1 (together with Ferrari, Renault, Mercedes and Honda), and get Cosworth in. I've heard he has financial stake in that business. Honda said on more than one occasion, they returned to F1 only to accept challenge hybrid engines represent. They aren't interested in alternatives, so chances are, they would not stay either. Mr. Brown will singlehandedly either destroy F1, or create a new series, IRL style, because all indications are, that's where he is heading with his rhetoric. It remains to be seen, how the others will react. 

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Date 2020.05.28   Time 12:14 (UTC) TEAM SIZE IN CLOSE GATE EVENTS

News are appearing about team size allowed to enter close gate race is about 80 personnel. I guess that's fine. Teams like Sauber used to have about that head count involved actively under all conditions  (if my recollection is correct). With this limitation large teams such as Ferrari for example, will have to change routine quite a lot. I cannot recall how many of those Ferrari guys travel from an event to event, but for some reason number around 140 is stuck in my head. Well whatever, it was over 80 a lot. How that will work out remains to be seen, and such drastic change without proper preparation (performing critical tasks correctly and quickly without having to think about it) could spill potentially over into some errors. Small teams win again?

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