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Ferrari 2021

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Mr. Briatore loves only two things; himself, and Alonso. As far as Ferrari is concerned hiring him, that would be No.

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7 hours ago, KoolMonkey said:

Ferrari will end up with some schmuck like Briatore.

The team is in such shambles that they probably Need a schmuck like Briatore to help bring the team together.

Someone who, with his presence, melts the faux ego that the Italians under the Ferrari stable have, and steer everyone towards a common goal.. 

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Allison on Ferrari

 

So basically, Ferrari, is sooo Ferraarriiiii ( saying that in an italian accent), That they are a hindrance to them selves being a good F1 team first.

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2 hours ago, Sakae said:

Date 2020.07.21   Time 14:08 (UTC)

The entire car project has to be revised’ admits Binotto – but says sacking people is not the answer

That's strange. If sacking is not in your repertoire, then what was all that about with Vettel?

He built the car... don't u know. He could not build the car fast enough on his own so... obvious.

Hipocritical clowns!!

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Guys,,,, Guys... @BradSpeedMan @KoolMonkey @Sakae

I'm, in a small way, surprised by how much you guys despise Ferrari to have let Vettle go.. ok, the way they executed it, was not all good! 

I hate to break it to you.. N I know you ya'all are ardent fans of Vettle in here, and are not happy to see your Fav driver go(which I respect, I respect your Fan-ness)... but Its time we accept a few things as they are,, or have been recently,,,, instead of either - how it could be,,, or How they were in past..

1) Blaming Ferrari or Binotto, is pointless. Its Not going to change the fundamental issue that F1 is Facing - in the light of Mercedes Performance. Ferrari is not performing, and emotions are high, and I feel everyone is playing to it without looking at it logically..

Merc played with everyone. They got a head start with their interpretation of the current generation of PU, It was Mercedes who was all excited for the change in Engine technology back in, I'm guessing it was around 2008 ... coz they had already the started their initial outline of the new PU,,, AFTER which they sat on the table with FOM and FIA to chalk out the new rules...

They kept their poker face up on all the talks around Turbo regulations that were discussed, coz they knew everyone was basically going to design around a conventional Turbo setup, and they would have an advantage with there approach...

By the time the engine change happened, Merc, with their Split Turbo was far ahead in development EVERYWHERE..

Split Turbo > overall cooler PU > Combustion Engine is Efficient + tightly packed > less cooling hardware > Better performance out of the battery with reduced heat > Better placement and design of the gearbox > Better Flexibility of Rear suspension setup (plus they nailed it with their lower rake approach) > Slimmer Chasis > More efficient Aerodynamics > Better breaking performance everywhere

Honda realized this and copied them, but they are still catching up to this PU Style

Racing Point Hired a lot of photographers and copied the Old Merc coz they already have the same PU to build around. I'm sure they will be left off for the dispute of copying Merc, coz this option is already available to everyone, and no one is using it.. I bet Williams are going to follow suit...

 

Unfortunately,,,,, THERE IS NOTHING FERRARI OR ANY OTHER TEAM CAN DO TO BEAT THE DEVELOPMENT MERC HAS REACHED ... and its a shame, i despise it myself.. 

 

2) Vettle's eyes shone at the sight of the Red Ferrari + dealing with Ricciardo Pressure was too much, so he signed up with Ferrari without putting down his papers at Redbull (I'm literally rolling my eyes with what Im about to say next) Lets Admit it... Vettle has F**ked up more times then what is expected of him, and at this point is Not bringing the Value for money that he should bring (don't get me wrong, hes a nice guy n i like him for that).. Sainz on the other hand, has a more astute outlook for developing the cars, which is known by the whole paddock, no wonder Ferrari din sign Ricciardo .. Plus he is happy driving for Ferrari in return for MnM's.

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There is always an option in life. It might not be a good one, but those who do not like what they see, they can walk away from the sport, and should not sign for another term. Instead, they will moan and talk, but stay. We can spend time and write pages of possible reasons for self-defeating course of action, but I am not planning to engage in that. There is no unity among manufacturers, and people working in FIRE sector are skillful how to exploit such situations to their advantage. Nothing new to see here. F1 stopped being sport long time ago. It's investment business now.

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35 minutes ago, Sakae said:

There is always an option in life. It might not be a good one, but those who do not like what they see, they can walk away from the sport, and should not sign for another term. Instead, they will moan and talk, but stay. We can spend time and write pages of possible reasons for self-defeating course of action, but I am not planning to engage in that.

@Sakae

We all do that.. Trust me,,, We all do that... Just to come back.. 

IMG_20200722_120127.thumb.jpg.9e132d43cecf7493347beb3de2040c40.jpg

 

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There should be distinction drawn, as I've intended, between an actor (such as a team is) walking away, and hopeless observer (a fan like me). Other than time, I have nothing much more invested in this. Brawn, Brown, Liberty and Todt don't care about me, however when Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes would say in unifying voice - we had enough, then that is something else. Impact on the investment is I think a key term for such situation which can produce The Change.

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10 hours ago, blackpebel said:

Guys,,,, Guys... @BradSpeedMan @KoolMonkey @Sakae

I'm, in a small way, surprised by how much you guys despise Ferrari to have let Vettle go.. ok, the way they executed it, was not all good! 

I hate to break it to you.. N I know you ya'all are ardent fans of Vettle in here, and are not happy to see your Fav driver go(which I respect, I respect your Fan-ness)... but Its time we accept a few things as they are,, or have been recently,,,, instead of either - how it could be,,, or How they were in past..

1) Blaming Ferrari or Binotto, is pointless. Its Not going to change the fundamental issue that F1 is Facing - in the light of Mercedes Performance. Ferrari is not performing, and emotions are high, and I feel everyone is playing to it without looking at it logically..

Merc played with everyone. They got a head start with their interpretation of the current generation of PU, It was Mercedes who was all excited for the change in Engine technology back in, I'm guessing it was around 2008 ... coz they had already the started their initial outline of the new PU,,, AFTER which they sat on the table with FOM and FIA to chalk out the new rules...

They kept their poker face up on all the talks around Turbo regulations that were discussed, coz they knew everyone was basically going to design around a conventional Turbo setup, and they would have an advantage with there approach...

By the time the engine change happened, Merc, with their Split Turbo was far ahead in development EVERYWHERE..

Split Turbo > overall cooler PU > Combustion Engine is Efficient + tightly packed > less cooling hardware > Better performance out of the battery with reduced heat > Better placement and design of the gearbox > Better Flexibility of Rear suspension setup (plus they nailed it with their lower rake approach) > Slimmer Chasis > More efficient Aerodynamics > Better breaking performance everywhere

Honda realized this and copied them, but they are still catching up to this PU Style

Racing Point Hired a lot of photographers and copied the Old Merc coz they already have the same PU to build around. I'm sure they will be left off for the dispute of copying Merc, coz this option is already available to everyone, and no one is using it.. I bet Williams are going to follow suit...

 

Unfortunately,,,,, THERE IS NOTHING FERRARI OR ANY OTHER TEAM CAN DO TO BEAT THE DEVELOPMENT MERC HAS REACHED ... and its a shame, i despise it myself.. 

 

2) Vettle's eyes shone at the sight of the Red Ferrari + dealing with Ricciardo Pressure was too much, so he signed up with Ferrari without putting down his papers at Redbull (I'm literally rolling my eyes with what Im about to say next) Lets Admit it... Vettle has F**ked up more times then what is expected of him, and at this point is Not bringing the Value for money that he should bring (don't get me wrong, hes a nice guy n i like him for that).. Sainz on the other hand, has a more astute outlook for developing the cars, which is known by the whole paddock, no wonder Ferrari din sign Ricciardo .. Plus he is happy driving for Ferrari in return for MnM's.

I would like to know how YOU know Merc played with everyone, when there was a level playing field, and even Renault pushing for the new regs. I guess you were sitting at the table when these new rules were being discussed, with Merc playing pokerface.. You saw that did'nt you, those sneers.. You..you devil you...the insider... tsk tsk

I would also like to know how you know Ferrari employed Sainz for developing cars. Do you think he's just happy to drive around gp's going.."Hey, we need some rear axle stiffness.... Start developing guys. I know you guys employed me as a nr 2 driver, but come on, this thing does'nt work.. Hey, what's up with this front wing, too much winglets in front.. come on you guys..."...Is Leclerc suddenly not good enough. There was no pressure from Ric, Vettel just wanted to emulate his hero Michael and win titles for Ferrari. They came TO HIM with an offer..Nothing about running away... Its every driver's dream to drive for Ferrari, yes, if Hamilton was'nt driving in that beast of a Merc. he wud've switched earlier.. Trust me. Wait, did'nt he he ditched his "home-team" for that dominant Merc, wonder how Pokerface Wolff influence that conversation.

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Motive for Vettel leaving RBR has been discussed for past some 5 odd years. People, like our friend here, claim they "love" Vettel, but then they go and accuse him basically of cowardice, repeating internet mantra.

N. Chomsky said: 

Quote

I try to encourage people to think for themselves, to question standard assumptions,

Well, it doesn't always works that way professor. Thinking requires work, and that is not on. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Sakae said:

Motive for Vettel leaving RBR has been discussed for past some 5 odd years. People, like our friend here, claim they "love" Vettel, but then they go and accuse him basically of cowardice, repeating internet mantra.

N. Chomsky said: 

Well, it doesn't always works that way professor. Thinking requires work, and that is not on. 

 

Don't be fooled by his... nice person Vettel outside the car... it's clear the guy has ulterior motives..

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7 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

I would like to know how YOU know Merc played with everyone, when there was a level playing field, and even Renault pushing for the new regs. I guess you were sitting at the table when these new rules were being discussed, with Merc playing pokerface.. You saw that did'nt you, those sneers.. You..the insider... tsk tsk

Brad O Brad,

I understand, Why would you not believe me,,,, Me, someone who has not been active in this forum as much as others, and now comes around to claims something this controversial. Right? You are not wrong in thinking what you are thinking Brad. I can understand why you would feel that,,  I'm not an insider, But I do consider myself Staying in touch with Racing news, especially F1, on time , and have been FOR QUITE SOME TIME... I've been a part of THIS forum since Tf1 days, not as active here, but I've explored a lot or other sources for F1 and Racing related news elsewhere on the internet between then and now, I'm Ok to know i've looked outside for info on what I claim.

You don't believe me, fair enough, and you are right to discard me ... But Hope you consider this...

Montezemolo - mercedes-worked-on-their-f1-engine-since-2007/

SO.... As I remember reading some reports back in , a team of Mercedes engineers had already started work on the Future PU before the Regulations were decided, and this was the game changing moment. And then Mercedes pushed for the PU regulations. Renault would have wanted the new Regs for the benefit of R&D that it brings to them as a car manufacturer and agreed with going ahead...

1 hour ago, BradSpeedMan said:

There was no pressure from Ric

If you say so.

1 hour ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Nothing about running away...

Mate I never said anything about running away. He did what he felt right and it was a good move, in hindsight, it din play out as expected. He did, though, blindly fall for the Ferrari Option without discussing this with RedBull.

 

1 hour ago, BradSpeedMan said:

if Hamilton was'nt driving in that beast of a Merc. he wud've switched earlier.. Trust me. Wait, did'nt he he ditched his "home-team" for that dominant Merc, wonder how Pokerface Wolff influence that conversation.

Lauda brokered the negotiations, convincing Hamilton through the knowledge he had about the upcoming PU.

 

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23 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Don't be fooled by his... nice person Vettel outside the car... it's clear the guy has ulterior motives..

Pfff..

You can continue to think like this... I'm sorry to see you would think I have Ulterior motives behind my viewpoint of Vettle... Coz I refuse to not play blind to Either side of the coin that Vettle is...

My unbiased opinion about what Vettle is Outside the car, and what he is Inside the car, Is purely based on my observation of facts... and I don't see it changing. Im not going to hate Vettle tomorrow, If you both start to, i'm quite firm on that!

I hope he gets that AM seat, I hope AM comes up with a better Copy of Merc 2020, and Vettle beats the s##t out of Hamilton and proves me wrong... But I said what I said about Mercedes development above, because it seems impossible for others to challenge them...

Im not suck up my outlook towards him, If he shows a tangible change, then of course I will pay respect to him.. 

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11 minutes ago, blackpebel said:

Brad O Brad,

I understand, Why would you not believe me,,,, Me, someone who has not been active in this forum as much as others, and now comes around to claims something this controversial. Right? You are not wrong in thinking what you are thinking Brad. I can understand why you would feel that,,  I'm not an insider, But I do consider myself Staying in touch with Racing news, especially F1, on time , and have been FOR QUITE SOME TIME... I've been a part of THIS forum since Tf1 days, not as active here, but I've explored a lot or other sources for F1 and Racing related news elsewhere on the internet between then and now, I'm Ok to know i've looked outside for info on what I claim.

You don't believe me, fair enough, and you are right to discard me ... But Hope you consider this...

Montezemolo - mercedes-worked-on-their-f1-engine-since-2007/

SO.... As I remember reading some reports back in , a team of Mercedes engineers had already started work on the Future PU before the Regulations were decided, and this was the game changing moment. And then Mercedes pushed for the PU regulations. Renault would have wanted the new Regs for the benefit of R&D that it brings to them as a car manufacturer and agreed with going ahead...

If you say so.

Mate I never said anything about running away. He did what he felt right and it was a good move, in hindsight, it din play out as expected. He did, though, blindly fall for the Ferrari Option without discussing this with RedBull.

 

Lauda brokered the negotiations, convincing Hamilton through the knowledge he had about the upcoming PU.

 

So Merc did'nt really play with the F1 field did they. There were no pokerfaces... they all understood. They just made pre-arrangements if all teams wud agree... That is quite clever... and  that is the bloody point!

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3 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

So Merc did'nt really play with the F1 field did they. There were no pokerfaces... they all understood. They just made pre-arrangements if all teams wud agree... That is quite clever... and  that is the bloody point!

I guess you typed this Before reading the whole article.. Let me help you.....

Quote

Montezemolo told La Repubblica, “Lauda recently confessed to me that Mercedes were already working [on their hybrid engine] since 2007 and that’s why they so adamant during the negotiations to introduce V6 engines from 2014.”

SO...

They DID Play with our beloved Sport!

They DID Hold a Poker face during those Negotiations..

That's not clever, that's Fiendish against everything that MOTOR SPORTS should be about!

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2 minutes ago, blackpebel said:

I guess you typed this Before reading the whole article.. Let me help you.....

SO...

They DID Play with our beloved Sport!

They DID Hold a Poker face during those Negotiations..

That's not clever, that's Fiendish against everything that MOTOR SPORTS should be about!

Did'nt every other team have their suggestions? "Montezemolo also admitted that he erred in accepting the new F1 regulations, “Yes, I made a mistake. But I felt I could not put Ferrari in a position that would we would be seen as anti-development. A fearful Ferrari could not be my Ferrari.” 

So, they had all that time for... DEVELOPMENT when all the teams decided to go Merc V6  route, or what they proposed.... because Merc played EVERYONE. Fascinating.

The answer is simply that all the other teams DID'NT do a good enough job. That is the crux of the matter. So let's not blame Merc entirely for this circus we are witnessing... They all agreed

 

Q, Are you Cav on grandPrix247

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Assuming we have facts straight, it seems rather wrong to have Mercedes enjoying longer lead time in development of (complex) hybrid power plant without sharing. That alone should have them probably disqualify from competition, but when F1 regulators said - keep it - and furthermore in first year (2014) declared limits and slowed down catching up work for rivals, that's a point when F1 credibility comes into a question. There is nothing wrong being good, or best, but this has to remain world in which competition strives. I don't have feeling it is so today.

On the starting grid when a car moves a millimeter before lights go off you can get penalized, yet here (I remember what BE stated long time ago), a major competitor is allowed to build a huge jump on everyone else. Think about it.  It is very big Swedish ball to swallow without choking on it. 

 

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We all agree we don't like this Merc domination. But... why should they share their intel? That's not fair either

 

"That alone should have them probably disqualify from competition, but when F1 regulators said - keep it - and furthermore in first year (2014) declared limits and slowed down catching up work for rivals, that's a point when F1 credibility comes into a question."

AGREED

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6 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

We all agree we don't like this Merc domination. But... why should they share their intel? That's not fair either

 

"That alone should have them probably disqualify from competition, but when F1 regulators said - keep it - and furthermore in first year (2014) declared limits and slowed down catching up work for rivals, that's a point when F1 credibility comes into a question."

AGREED

AGREED!

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11 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

We all agree we don't like this Merc domination. But... why should they share their intel? That's not fair either

Why? Because they were allowed to develop advantage. The same was denied others (moratorium in the first year). Different starting lines for all of them.

In fact, if I recall, it was said that FiA worked with Mercedes to write regulatory specs for whole group. I am not suggesting they should have shared unlimited data, just correct status report up to the point before rest of them launched their own work. Lab, research, factory, training, etc. MB had tremendous advantage IMHO, and whole F1 is still feeing it - as pain - even today. 

 

I am perplexed. You guys don't see anything wrong with it????? 

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1 minute ago, Sakae said:

Why? Because they were allowed to develop advantage. In fact, if I recall, it was said that FiA worked with Mercedes to write regulatory specs for whole group. I am not suggesting they should have shared unlimited data, just correct status report up to the point before rest of them launched their own work. Lab, research, factory, training, etc. MB had tremendous advantage IMHO, and whole F1 is still feeing it even today. .  

Source?

Its been 6 YEARS now Sakae! 6 YEARS!!!! Are you telling me the competition is so incompetent they can't catch up... Or are Merc just merrily tweaking regulatory specs with FIA as it suits both parties. We're talking about the pinnacle of Motorsports!

I think it's not just the engine, Merc is doing a brilliant job in all areas of their car development. It pains me to say this...

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