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Sakae

Events 4 and 5 GB (2020)

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36 minutes ago, KoolMonkey said:

NO ONE loses speed in a straight line. Least of all a 33 year old ex 4x WDC. Motivation might be one thing, and I won't dump on him if he's feeling low and empty. But it's not even a question. No driver loses speed in a straight line. They lose it in the corners, and pushing the car to and past the limit. Thus that tells me there IS something wrong with Vettel's car. Or option 2 that they have given Leclerc an upgraded one.

I don't honestly think they are sabotaging him, but I do not feel they are supporting him either. Binotto with his public comments has thrown Vettel under a bus. Imagine what it's like behind the scenes. On other forums I've seen Vettel haters feel this situation is ridiculous. That says alot to me. When people who don't like someone also raise their voice that something is up, then you know something really is up.

I have always felt that the times Vettel has spun in the Ferrari is down to two things. 1) He's pushing the car harder and faster than it's setup to go. 2) He's not comfortable in the car, but is trying to overdrive the issue. Vettel's skills haven't degraded.

If there's one thing we know about Vettel is that he is meticulous. Apparently 2nd only to Schumi in his prep and thought when it comes to F1. I don't buy it for a second that he's lazy, but I do feel he's running on empty. Ferrari are giving him zero support at present. Car failures, equipment not setup right, lousy and lengthy pitstops, dodgy pitstop strategies.

This season can't end soon enough, I'm sick of it already. The novelty of F1 being back on has now been replaced with the dead set boredom of seeing two magnificent cars lapping the other teams, and we all know both Merc drivers aren't even close to going flat out. I saw a headline today with Hamilton saying he'd rather fight for wins. Sure sure, you said that years ago about not wanting cheap wins.

Farce F1 has to stop. Liberty have to sell it. Brawn either has to step up, or go back to being a TP. Todt is invisible. Can anyone name or list where F1 is improving on things? Anything?

+1

Great Post KM

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GPToday is running

Quote

Ricciardo seeking peers’ opinions on Grosjean’s defence

What's going on? I though we had FiA to take care about issues of that kind, assuming there are any in the first place. Second in line would be Wurz of GPDA. 

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I didn't watched the race, consequently there are bits and pieces I am learning about only now, after the race. One which cought my eye is incident talking about icy air between TP and his driver. How long are they planning to keep up with that? Sebastian needs to calm down, that's the only cure-pill which is available at the moment. A declared decision on his future certainly will induce some normality to this whacky situation. 

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Date 2020.08.05   Time 9:37 (UTC)

There were problems with tires in the last race, which prompted internal investigation, and resulted in this headline (GP247):

Quote

PIRELLI: EXTREMELY LONG USE OF TYRES CAUSED PUNCTURES

1. If so, is the product (tire) properly developed and ready for release? 

2. Who will take responsibility for this situation? Driver's lives were in increased - and perhaps avoidable - danger otehrwise inherent to racing under normal conditions. I think Pirelli might have a legitimate claim they do best rule book allows them, however I think in the future Pirelli should be better assisted by FiA in their work, all in the name of safety.

3. Are we expecting any changes in instructions to teams for remainder of this season?

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KM, I have been aware of that article, however in forensic style analysis, examination of a damaged tire should clearly exhibit patterns associated with potential causes. There should be distinctive features in the pattern caused by an external object, as opposed damage induced by excessive wear. One would encompass almost full tire perimeter, other would be framed to more narrow locality. Moreover, they have 3 exhibits, not just one, if I understand it. That should help analysis.

We will have to wait what kind of instruction will be issued, if any, to the teams in the forthcoming race. Pirelli already announced their findings, however I have not seen as yet any correction which would point to the piece shown in the picture. Having said that, that kind of metal piece could messed up tire pretty badly, I can imagine.

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Listening to Cardile talk, sounds like Seb is in for another pleasant weekend ahead. No need to waste time on small things, he said.  (Cardile is the head of Ferrari development.)

 

Well, good to know.

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14 hours ago, KoolMonkey said:

NO ONE loses speed in a straight line.

Its NOT just about pushing the throttle down mate, that's is very simple perception of what 'attaining a top speed' involves.  Easier said then done actually,,, You build up on gaining a top speed which includes careful navigation out of the corner,,, THIS needs finesse and skills of the highest quality, and the difference may seem marginal.

Its about carefully guiding your car towards GAINING a Better top speed, you can ask this to ANY racing driver, and they will have the same response. Although marginally, this is one of the distinguishing factor while assessing a drivers performance. The drivers who are better, are better at getting their car out of the corner, AND Braking.

here is a comparison of the TOP speed from the British GP 2020,,,, got this table from here...

image.png.be2408535bb5edf3ece69cadd110e133.png

The difference to Leclerc clearly isn't as huge, when compared with other drivers and their respective team mates.... wading of ANY suggestions that Ferrari is cutting horsepower on Vettles car.... 

 

15 hours ago, KoolMonkey said:

No driver loses speed in a straight line. They lose it in the corners, 

Its actually both! Good drivers gain speed on Both the straights and Corners,,, is what separates good from the not, its about careful management of BOTH!

 

15 hours ago, KoolMonkey said:

I don't honestly think they are sabotaging him, but I do not feel they are supporting him either.

They don't even have a chance of thinking about sabotaging him, they are already looking for a better performance out of Vettle to save their own shame. Keeping future in mind, Its possible they are leaning closer to Leclerc's shoulder....... 

but that does not mean they would not Help Vettle with an equally setup car, Thats just the difference between driver performance, as is in ANY case. Unfortunately, its difficult for Vettle fans to accept that Because of this emotional friction between Leclerc and Vettle which has probably rubbed off...

 

16 hours ago, KoolMonkey said:

I have always felt that the times Vettel has spun in the Ferrari is down to two things. 1) He's pushing the car harder and faster than it's setup to go. 2) He's not comfortable in the car, but is trying to overdrive the issue. Vettel's skills haven't degraded.

1) Pushing the car further ahead of its setup potential (as in, in case of out-braking for Eg.) , doesn't qualify for high regards.

Moreover.... it is a sign of incompetence to extract the Maximum out of the car, while NOT losing it.

And Vettle has been spinning a heck of a lot more then what is expected of 4 time world champion.

2) Ill probably agree with the fact that Vettles skills haven't degraded. The quality of the machine and team mate he has besides him - - -  HAS!

Leclerc deserves some fair credit for how he has been performing

 

16 hours ago, KoolMonkey said:

This season can't end soon enough, I'm sick of it already

#Metoo

16 hours ago, KoolMonkey said:

Farce F1 has to stop. Liberty have to sell it. Brawn either has to step up, or go back to being a TP.

The model that Eccelstone sold to Liberty Media, is what we see today, Sale was discussed and agreed on AFTER . The model that Liberty media has in works, will show its true colors in 2022, and I think brawn is doing a fine Job of resolving the Mess that Bernie has left behind...  We have 2021 in between, Winter is going to last long my friend, brace up.

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1 hour ago, blackpebel said:

Its NOT just about pushing the throttle down mate, that's is very simple perception of what 'attaining a top speed' involves.  Easier said then done actually,,, You build up on gaining a top speed which includes careful navigation out of the corner,,, THIS needs finesse and skills of the highest quality, and the difference may seem marginal.

Its about carefully guiding your car towards GAINING a Better top speed, you can ask this to ANY racing driver, and they will have the same response. Although marginally, this is one of the distinguishing factor while assessing a drivers performance. The drivers who are better, are better at getting their car out of the corner, AND Braking.

here is a comparison of the TOP speed from the British GP 2020,,,, got this table from here...

image.png.be2408535bb5edf3ece69cadd110e133.png

The difference to Leclerc clearly isn't as huge, when compared with other drivers and their respective team mates.... wading of ANY suggestions that Ferrari is cutting horsepower on Vettles car.... 

Its actually both! Good drivers gain speed on Both the straights and Corners,,, is what separates good from the not, its about careful management of BOTH!

They don't even have a chance of thinking about sabotaging him, they are already looking for a better performance out of Vettle to save their own shame. Keeping future in mind, Its possible they are leaning closer to Leclerc's shoulder....... but that does not mean they would not Help Vettle with an equally setup car, Thats just the difference between driver performance, as is in ANY case. Unfortunately, its difficult for Vettle fans to accept that Because of this emotional friction between Leclerc and Vettle which has probably rubbed off...

1) Pushing the car further ahead of its setup potential (as in, in case of out-braking for Eg.) , doesn't qualify for high regards.

Moreover.... it is a sign of incompetence to extract the Maximum out of the car, while NOT losing it.

And Vettle has been spinning a heck of a lot more then what is expected of 4 time world champion.

2) Ill probably agree with the fact that Vettles skills haven't degraded. The quality of the machine and team mate he has besides him - - -  HAS!

Leclerc deserves some fair credit for how he has been performing

A picture tells a thousand stories...

The quality of the machine??? You are not referring to the Ferrari car are you. Certainly not... http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/729117/Ferrari_We_are_not_able_to_fight_for_the_win_in_a_Grand_Prix/

There is not Active sabotage. You are right, Ferrari would be foolish to let everyone see it. But there is something Ferrari can do, and has done.. with "subtle sabotage". 

Let's step back and think for a minute ok. Vettel has beaten Leclerc just the previous 2 races b4 Silverstone with equal machinery, that's b4 Ferrari brought in ...UPGRADES, and now Vettel can't drive the flippin thing. Why? This, according to Webbo..."Webber, though, feels it is more of a case of the four-time World Champion having no confidence in his car. “I spoke to him off air and he told me that he just cannot feel the [Ferrari] car,” the former F1 driver told Channel 4. “He is lost with it and doesn’t have the trust in it. “It’s really light on the rear, so for him he is really chasing the vehicle. “The operation within the garage doesn’t give him the confidence he needs to go out there and push the car to the limit. “We even saw him checking over the car himself [in practice] which is a horrendous situation for a driver to be in.”

Vettel and Verstappen are masters at taking the car to the absolute limit. It's from the upgrades, to setup to the maximum laptime on circuit. You don't just ... lose it. As you've mentioned "Vettles skills haven't degraded". But the upgrades brought in assist Leclerc ' DRIVING STYLE.

To give you a clear mental picture of this, think of the Kimi/Massa pairing. After Kimi's championship year, Schumacher came in, and assisted his protege Massa. The car swung Massa' way. It's not that Kimi lost his skills and mojo, it was just the car was better suited to Massa. Kimi would say something in terms of car development, and when Ferrari could'nt do it, he just shrugged it off. They started realising their mistake when Massa got injured, and Kimi dragged that dog of a car to podiums. They had to bring him back after firing him because the state of the car was deteriorating so much under Alonso, Kimi could'nt drive the goddamn thing. It was so suited to Alonso's driving style. Because u like research so much feel free to read up on THAT ONE.

Is'nt vettel known of his cornering inputs, especially during the RBR championship winning years. He is the master of... BRAKING AND CORNERS. Absolutely! Read up on that one too, since you really love research. That's why he was able to beat his opponents with a car not significantly faster than his competitors as we see today.

So please don't insult us with suggestions that Vettel's opponent is beating him through braking and cornering speeds with HUGE margins.  Vettel is a 4x champ becoz of it. Leclerc is'nt.

There is something greater at play here. There is something.... VERY wrong.

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Lovely post Brad. I think Webber is spot on and most of here have caught onto it as well. Ferrari are backing Vettel 0%. They are giving him 0% support. If he's not happy with the car or updates, they are also giving him zero listening. They don't care. For them it's all about Leclerc and Vettel be damned.

Vettel has no confidence in the car, the setup of the car, or the team. Despite him giving very concise and detailed information on how the car feels they are not interested in what he thinks. The more this goes on, the more others see it for what it is... Ferrari completely and utterly clueless. Not only that, but disrespectful, petty and disloyal. You have Berger, Wolff, Marko and Webber all chiming in as well. Ferrari are so stupid they don't realize the world is watching them. Binotto isn't going to last past next year either.

Does anyone have any real idea what they are trying to achieve this year? The only thing I can think of is saving face to make sure Leclerc beats Vettel. Other than that, genuine podiums aren't there.

Good you bring up the Massa/Kimi thing. Shows Ferrari have a track record of shafting one driver for the other. At least in the Schumi/Rubens days the cars were similar like Hamilton/Bottas. When you see a massive gap between drivers in the same team then you know somethings amiss if it's not a talent issue. No wonder Alonso "beat" all his team mates. No one could drive his stupidly setup cars accept him.

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On 8/6/2020 at 6:15 AM, BradSpeedMan said:

The quality of the machine??? You are not referring to the Ferrari car are you. Certainly not... http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/729117/Ferrari_We_are_not_able_to_fight_for_the_win_in_a_Grand_Prix/

I sincerely apologies for the Typo, and the delay in offering a correction... I accidentally wrote:

On 8/6/2020 at 4:19 AM, blackpebel said:

2) Ill probably agree with the fact that Vettles skills haven't degraded. The quality of the machine and team mate he has besides him - - -  HAS!

Let me rephrase the whole sentence with the correct word I should have used initially...

Ill probably agree with the fact that Vettles skills haven't changed. The quality of the machine and the team mate he has besides him - - -  HAS!

___________

I realize, as much as anyone else, that this years Ferrari is in shambles, the effect of which is exaggerated further by the Mercedes performance.

The whole, is greater than the some of its part...

I don't really blame any particular team or driver for NOT winning a championship against Mercedes... But behind Mercedes, there is still a competition for the 'best of the rest', and I feel I have seen my fair share of Motor Racing, and F1 in particular, to offer my viewpoint.

 

On 8/6/2020 at 6:15 AM, BradSpeedMan said:

Let's step back and think for a minute ok. Vettel has beaten Leclerc just the previous 2 races b4 Silverstone with equal machinery, that's b4 Ferrari brought in ...UPGRADES, and now Vettel can't drive the flippin thing.

And here we are, 4 races later,,,  Leclerc is on 33 points (compared to Vettles 10) with 2 podiums . So you say that Ferrari brought 'some upgrades' for their Fav Driver, which changed the game, right?

So, Lets take a Step back EVEN FURTHER to 2019.... Leclerc finished the season with 7 Pole Positions and 2 wins, compared to Vettle's 2 Poles and 1 win. who was the car designed after? When Ric got the better of Vettel, who was the car designed after?

HERE is the reason why I think Ferrari finally gave on their emotions towards Vettle.. its hard to blame them when our own man has been at fault several times for the same reason.

 

On 8/6/2020 at 6:15 AM, BradSpeedMan said:

This, according to Webbo..."Webber, though, feels it is more of a case of the four-time World Champion having no confidence in his car. “I spoke to him off air and he told me that he just cannot feel the [Ferrari] car,” the former F1 driver told Channel 4. “He is lost with it and doesn’t have the trust in it. “It’s really light on the rear, so for him he is really chasing the vehicle. “The operation within the garage doesn’t give him the confidence he needs to go out there and push the car to the limit. “We even saw him checking over the car himself [in practice] which is a horrendous situation for a driver to be in.”

Lets see,,, Did you believe in Webber for all those years that he was trying to blame vettle and redbull for sidelining him? I doubt that,,, you probably laughed off webber, like a lot of other Vettel Fans, for saying those things back then.  And to be Honest, even I thought webber was only offering a sad story based on his subjective outlook.. I personally don't think What Vettle and Redbull did was all unfair towards webber except Multi 21. None the less, Its good to see you respect some of webbers words today....

 

On 8/6/2020 at 6:15 AM, BradSpeedMan said:

Vettel and Verstappen are masters at taking the car to the absolute limit.

Taking the car to the absolute limit - Verstappen, Yes, Definitely. Vettle... I don't think so.

Its fair to say that Vettel is good at taking a good car to a race and championship win. As a matter of fact, Vettel has Spun out wayyyyyy too many times.. Here is an old compilation, Prior to the Italian GP video I linked above... In one of the races, he is even heard saying that he pushed too much (1:05)...

 

On 8/6/2020 at 6:15 AM, BradSpeedMan said:

But the upgrades brought in assist Leclerc ' DRIVING STYLE.

Ok I agree with you about the fact that Leclerc has a Different driving style to Vettle, I brushed up my knowledge through here, while typing this... But these UPGRADES have been brought to Leclercs specification NOW, after a whole season and 3 races,,, so basically Leclerc was on an equal footing and he got the best of vettel with a similar equipment...

 

On 8/6/2020 at 6:15 AM, BradSpeedMan said:

That's why he was able to beat his opponents with a car not significantly faster than his competitors as we see today.

Vettle did not have a car significantly faster than others??? I personally think that would be (and forgive me for the choice of words) - a delusional observance of the facts.

Has he ever won a championship in a car that was Not the best? well, Frankly that no one does in F1... Then again, Has he Ever won a race from below 3rd on the grid.

 

image.png.13053447b6f01a8ddb74de1fb21d2bc8.png

 

On 8/6/2020 at 7:30 AM, KoolMonkey said:

Does anyone have any real idea what they are trying to achieve this year

I think they too have shifted focus towards 2022. as for 2020 and 2021, they are probably going to build around Leclerc because the car is more or less going to be the same.

 

On 8/6/2020 at 7:30 AM, KoolMonkey said:

No wonder Alonso "beat" all his team mates. No one could drive his stupidly setup cars accept him.

Hmm,, that's an interesting angle,, that could very well be a valid reason for why Alonso could not be beaten... Although he is a good driver/athlete or what have you... Alonso has been too much about himself during his career in F1,, up until now at least. He probably needed someone to slap some reality check into him to tell him that the whole package (including his team mate), has to be faster OVERALL, and NOT just HIS car... and that he needs to then adjust to THAT car and try to win... that does say a lot about why he hasn't won more then 2 championships...

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Quote

SAINZ: GROSJEAN’S MOVE WAS UNACCEPTABLE

After a British Grand Prix packed with dubious defensive moves Romain Grosjean maintained he was not playing dirty despite being cited for ‘unsportsmanlike conduct’ and receiving a warning from stewards for his shenanigans.

Critique of Grosjean continues. Internet is overflowing with preponderance of haughty attitude towards Swiss-French.

Whether Grosjean's driving is not to liking to other drivers, it's really not the end of this world. It is an issue for his managers and regulators to deal with, if norms get violated. (But what are those? One for you, other one for him?) The truth to be said, all drivers are guilty of occasional dark aggression, it's not unique to just Grosjean, regardless whether his tactics were deliberate or not. Consequential amplification of individual incidents in print and on mike however seems different. Is there any hope we change how we judge a fellow man? I have to believe in that, because there is nothing else which makes sense. My hope - maybe in next life.

 

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32 minutes ago, Sakae said:

Critique of Grosjean continues. Internet is overflowing with preponderance of haughty attitude towards Swiss-French.

Whether Grosjean's driving is not to liking to other drivers, it's really not the end of this world. It is an issue for his managers and regulators to deal with, if norms get violated. (But what are those? One for you, other one for him?) The truth to be said, all drivers are guilty of occasional dark aggression, it's not unique to just Grosjean, regardless whether his tactics were deliberate or not. Consequential amplification of individual incidents in print and on mike however seems different. Is there any hope we change how we judge a fellow man? I have to believe in that, because there is nothing else which makes sense. My hope - maybe in next life.

 

He did do some Verstappen moves there, but alas, Verstappen go away with it too...

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Is Sebi has fun yet? Looks like I might be again busy on Sunday afternoon selecting my new shaving brush.

This year remains me of a movie I have seen - starring Sebastian Vettel - I think once already in 2014. Poor quality car, poor team's service, abysmal media comments, in short, all just not worth to get out of the bed in morning. 

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I also don't understand this. Nico is usually very polite. Maybe he was provoked by someone from media...not sure of that. Maybe he was just teased by some drivers, so it was just a friendly salute...Looks not that good without context.

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1 hour ago, Sakae said:

I also don't understand this. Nico is usually very polite. Maybe he was provoked by someone from media...not sure of that. Maybe he was just teased by some drivers, so it was just a friendly salute...Looks not that good without context.

May be he was showing it to to Magnussen  🤪 , and someone caught it .... 

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Quote

“To Zak Brown it is BS because he’s not an engineer,” said Szafnauer.

“He’s got no idea what he’s talking about. Zero.

Szafnauer only found this now? 

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11 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Wonder what happened here...

photoshop happened
Strange how people can NOT C
What the eyes and ears tell U, the mind believes
Look at his nose - that index finger (has been placed on the image)
 

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If it is a fake, why then GPToday posted such image on their website? I think they should be capable to distinguish a fake from genuine thing. I have tough time already just to sort content of articles they are posting, images are just blur in the background.

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20 minutes ago, lipstick79 said:

What the eyes and ears tell U, the mind believes
 

Mr Lipstick, I'm very impressed with your Harry Houdini /Swordfish John Travolta manouvre here...

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18 hours ago, Sakae said:

Is it really you Nico? I haven't seen this side of you yet.

image.jpeg.0faaf58dd99601836a683a5d1268c813.jpeg

 

This is probably a middle finger to all those who didn't believe in him before he stepped into the Pink Mercedes.

3rd on the Grid then... Looking good for his first ever podium....

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