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Aston Martin Red Bull Racing

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Team: Aston Martin Red Bull Racing

Base: Milton Keynes, United Kingdom

Team Chief: Christian Horner

Power Unit: Honda

Drivers:

  • Max Verstappen
  • Alexander Albon

RBR

 

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1 hour ago, blackpebel said:

I thought we already had a group for this team... 2020 Racing Point / 2021 Aston Martin

Mate, did you open a topic and just question your self as to why the topic was named so?

Why is a team powered by Honda promoting as Aston Martin, a competing automaker? Seems rather parasitic behavior to piggy on someone else's success, and success the have, regardless of whining spoilt child one can find in Verstappen.

"Team: Aston Martin Red Bull Racing" is the title F1 official website is using in their register. 

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9 minutes ago, Sakae said:

Why is a team powered by Honda promoting as Aston Martin, a competing automaker? Seems rather parasitic behavior to piggy on someone else's success, and success the have, regardless of whining spoilt child one can find in Verstappen.

"Team: Aston Martin Red Bull Racing" is the title F1 official website is using in their register. 

It is actually no different from Infinity Red-Bull racing, where Infinity the car maker, teamed up with Redbull to Fund a Racing Season in return for some of their own marketing...

Its a contractual Agreement, Aston Martin probably pays Red bull some money for branding, and collaboration in making Hyper cars.

Next year AM will have there own project separate from RB.

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8 minutes ago, blackpebel said:

It is actually no different from Infinity Red-Bull racing, where Infinity the car maker, teamed up with Redbull to Fund a Racing Season in return for some of their own marketing...

Its a contractual Agreement, Aston Martin probably pays Red bull some money for branding, and collaboration in making Hyper cars.

Next year AM will have there own project separate from RB.

I disagree with you. It is not the same. 

RBR was powered by Renault, and Infinity and Renault were under business partnership and common interest. AM is not under any partnership with Honda as far as I know. in fact, in area of sporting vehicles they are competitors. There is very clear delineation of interests. Do you have intellectual difficulties to understand this conflict?

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3 hours ago, Sakae said:

I disagree with you. It is not the same. 

RBR was powered by Renault, and Infinity and Renault were under business partnership and common interest. AM is not under any partnership with Honda as far as I know. in fact, in area of sporting vehicles they are competitors. There is very clear delineation of interests. Do you have intellectual difficulties to understand this conflict?

so simple. Why is the q even asked?

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11 hours ago, Sakae said:

I disagree with you. It is not the same. 

RBR was powered by Renault, and Infinity and Renault were under business partnership and common interest. AM is not under any partnership with Honda as far as I know. in fact, in area of sporting vehicles they are competitors. There is very clear delineation of interests. Do you have intellectual difficulties to understand this conflict?

No, I don't have any difficulty understanding both the 'arrangements'.

By 'conflict' I realize that you are confusing what AM does and what Honda does. AM produces niche cars, they are NOT about building engines, so they don't have an issue with the Honda Brand for PU's. They want their names against the Redbull cars. As a matter of fact AM teamed up with cosworth for the Valkyrie project, and from next year will be teaming up with Mercedes. So whether AM has any other partnerships with Honda or no, is irrelevant.

Honda are in the game to provide engines and respect the arrangements between AM being the Sponsor for Redbull. AND THAT IS WHY THIS TEAM IS CALLED ASTON MARTIN REDBULL. There is NO conflict of interest.

When I said what I said, I was quite aware, that it is REDBULL that I'm talking about... Redbull - which unlike a lot of the other 'car manufacturing F1 teams' that have sister companies, is a brand and identity and a product in it self. They DONT have any issues in forging partnerships with a Adventure bike company, a plane racing championship, or a guy who wants to jump from space.... For the SAME reasons, they don't give differentiate between Renault or Infinity or Aston Martin or Honda against their interest. For them, as long as the Redbull name is prime focus, they are OK.

They are very clear about what they want - to be a part of the competition in all possible thrilling activities in the world where they can market them selves.

SO,,, Having said that, Please once again consider Reading what I wrote. By the look of it, its not ME who has a shortfall on understanding this whole matter in all its depth.

I was only comparing Redbull with its self, coz they are in a unique position within F1,, not OTHER car manufacturing teams like Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault or Alpha Romeo.

@BradSpeedMan

Simple?

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9 minutes ago, blackpebel said:

No, I don't have any difficulty understanding both the 'arrangements'.

By 'conflict' I realize that you are confusing what AM does and what Honda does. AM produces niche cars, they are NOT about building engines, so they don't have an issue with the Honda Brand for PU's. They want their names against the Redbull cars. As a matter of fact AM teamed up with cosworth for the Valkyrie project, and from next year will be teaming up with Mercedes. So whether AM has any other partnerships with Honda or no, is irrelevant.

Honda are in the game to provide engines and respect the arrangements between AM being the Sponsor for Redbull. AND THAT IS WHY THIS TEAM IS CALLED ASTON MARTIN REDBULL. There is NO conflict of interest.

When I said what I said, I was quite aware, that it is REDBULL that I'm talking about... Redbull - which unlike a lot of the other 'car manufacturing F1 teams' that have sister companies, is a brand and identity and a product in it self. They DONT have any issues in forging partnerships with a Adventure bike company, a plane racing championship, or a guy who wants to jump from space.... For the SAME reasons, they don't give differentiate between Renault or Infinity or Aston Martin or Honda against their interest. For them, as long as the Redbull name is prime focus, they are OK.

They are very clear about what they want - to be a part of the competition in all possible thrilling activities in the world where they can market them selves.

SO,,, Having said that, Please once again consider Reading what I wrote. By the look of it, its not ME who has a shortfall on understanding this whole matter in all its depth.

I was only comparing Redbull with its self, coz they are in a unique position within F1,, not OTHER car manufacturing teams like Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault or Alpha Romeo.

@BradSpeedMan

Simple?

AM don't just produce niche cars, they are also a manufacturer, no matter if they are just in it for sponsorship. You have an association of 2 car manufacturers on one team, whether one powers the RB or not. To top it off, it starts with the AM name... That is CATASTROSPHIC in terms of brand terms. It's a PR disaster! Do you think Honda is happy with this, they are basically piggy-banking on the Honda brand?? Unless of course, there is some association between the 2 manufacturers (as suggested), which is very... unlikely

 

Aston Martin Red Bull Racing... https://www.formula1.com/en/teams/Racing-Point.html

 

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32 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

You have an association of 2 car manufacturers on one team, whether one powers the RB or not. To top it off, it starts with the AM name... That is CATASTROSPHIC in terms of brand terms. It's a PR disaster!

It is a collaboration of opportunistic companies Like AM and Honda promoting themselves besides the technical, structural and commercial setup that Redbull offers.

Honestly if they don't have a problem with it, I'm not sure why we here, or anyone anywhere should.

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Honda invested huge sums of money, sweat, people lost their careers, their name was dragged through mud, and now, when is time to harvest what they sowed, success is near, someone else comes in, and for a few bucks with parasitic mindset determined to live on c#cktails belonging to someone else. 

There used to be a rule, that a team's name was structured with maker of body/chassis first, and PU maker after that, but it seems some people are after tradition only when it is convenient for them.

To make things worse, this driver, Verstappen, began to talk like Alonso, who had found his disciple. 

That's the world we live in. Some people are incapable to recognize right from wrong. There is a lot of it for very long time world wide.

Things can and do go wrong from time to time, and struggle for perfection continues.

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1 hour ago, blackpebel said:

It is a collaboration of opportunistic companies Like AM and Honda promoting themselves besides the technical, structural and commercial setup that Redbull offers.

Honestly if they don't have a problem with it, I'm not sure why we here, or anyone anywhere should.

Agree.... BUT this just seems... wrong

1 hour ago, Sakae said:

Honda invested huge sums of money, sweat, people lost their careers, their name was dragged through mud, and now, when is time to harvest what they sowed, success is near, someone else comes in, and for a few bucks with parasitic mindset determined to live on c#cktails belonging to someone else. 

There used to be a rule, that a team's name was structured with maker of body/chassis first, and PU maker after that, but it seems some people are after tradition only when it is convenient for them.

To make things worse, this driver, Verstappen, began to talk like Alonso, who had found his disciple. 

That's the world we live in. Some people are incapable to recognize right from wrong. There is a lot of it for very long time world wide.

Things can and do go wrong from time to time, and struggle for perfection continues.

He strikes as a frustrated figure nowadays, understandably so. He's got the talent to win the championship, and he knows it...

He should rather stay mum on his frustrations, I'm sure teams have already started taking notice... Look how difficult it has been for Alonso to get back in

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The moment Alonso pull that camping chair stunt, and badmouth hand which fed him, I think he signed off on advancing his career in the F1. Renault taking him on for next year probably suffered brain fade and forgot some matters that mattered.

I would be not surprised to learn if most of them want to drive the MB car. Verstappen is not the only one. In my thoughts however one should try to keep frustrations under control. If Vettel can manage that, then it can be done. MB has only 2 seats, and it's their decision who drives for them. That sense of self-entitlement is far too prevalent in F1. 

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3 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Agree.... BUT this just seems... wrong

And that is what I am trying to Understand, How does it matter? WHY should it matter to us fans what Name a team goes by, and who's collaboration a team accepts for Financing? Its hard to ask a friend for $100 in todays world. If someone wants to support you with millions of bucks, Its Understandable they would be Flexible in accommodating corporate Ego's. Or is it that WE here are trying to play out those corporate Ego's in our head?

If tomorrow Ferrari chooses to advertise Potato chips on their car, would I sit at home and stop watching racing as I do? No. Would a Rose with any other name smell any Different?

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5 hours ago, Sakae said:

To make things worse, this driver, Verstappen, began to talk like Alonso, who had found his disciple.

Brad answered that quiet well... 

3 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

He strikes as a frustrated figure nowadays, understandably so. He's got the talent to win the championship, and he knows it...

Any driver worth his Mettle would be frustrated. These guys are rushing with Adrenaline, and their honest outburst should be judged with a pinch of salt.

The Honda McLaren Years, are the worst that I have seen a Top team go through. ABSOLUTELY THE WORST. And they had 2 World champions driving for them. So for all the talk about Honda putting a lot of efforts, there were others who put a lot of efforts in Honda, that did not pay off.

With All due respect Sakae, Verstappen has won races and podiums with Redbul-Honda, and is still Using colorful Language on live radio to describe his feelings. When it was left to Alonso, he was rhetorical and sarcastic to display his dissatisfaction, but never used foul Language as I remember.

Especially someone who is close to his Final years in racing as Alonso was. What Alonso went through was far worst.

Heck Any driver who just accepts a team being slow, doesn't put enough Fire in the c#ckpit. The onus was always on Honda to give these guys a good PU.

5 hours ago, Sakae said:

That's the world we live in. Some people are incapable to recognize right from wrong.

Not Just 'some people', these guys are Racing drivers of the Highest caliber. 2 who are regarded as some of the best in the history of the sport.

And for your information, they are very much capable of recognizing the right from wrong about an F1 Machine.

Lets not blame them for being a Racing Driver AND WANTING TO WIN.

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3 hours ago, blackpebel said:

And that is what I am trying to Understand, How does it matter? WHY should it matter to us fans what Name a team goes by, and who's collaboration a team accepts for Financing? Its hard to ask a friend for $100 in todays world. If someone wants to support you with millions of bucks, Its Understandable they would be Flexible in accommodating corporate Ego's. Or is it that WE here are trying to play out those corporate Ego's in our head?

If tomorrow Ferrari chooses to advertise Potato chips on their car, would I sit at home and stop watching racing as I do? No. Would a Rose with any other name smell any Different?

That made me think... Nice 👍

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3 hours ago, blackpebel said:

 

Brad answered that quiet well... 

Any driver worth his Mettle would be frustrated. These guys are rushing with Adrenaline, and their honest outburst should be judged with a pinch of salt.

The Honda McLaren Years, are the worst that I have seen a Top team go through. ABSOLUTELY THE WORST. And they had 2 World champions driving for them. So for all the talk about Honda putting a lot of efforts, there were others who put a lot of efforts in Honda, that did not pay off.

With All due respect Sakae, Verstappen has won races and podiums with Redbul-Honda, and is still Using colorful Language on live radio to describe his feelings. When it was left to Alonso, he was rhetorical and sarcastic to display his dissatisfaction, but never used foul Language as I remember.

Especially someone who is close to his Final years in racing as Alonso was. What Alonso went through was far worst.

Heck Any driver who just accepts a team being slow, doesn't put enough Fire in the c#ckpit. The onus was always on Honda to give these guys a good PU.

Not Just 'some people', these guys are Racing drivers of the Highest caliber. 2 who are regarded as some of the best in the history of the sport.

And for your information, they are very much capable of recognizing the right from wrong about an F1 Machine.

Lets not blame them for being a Racing Driver AND WANTING TO WIN.

I cannot accept 99% of this. Despite all that font-boldness and my several decades as a fan of sport, it makes no sense to me at all in relationship to issues I've touched upon. But thanks for the lecture nonetheless. I have enough to chew on for rest of this year (assuming I want to be bothered by this).

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6 hours ago, Sakae said:

I cannot accept 99% of this. Despite all that font-boldness and my several decades as a fan of sport, it makes no sense to me at all in relationship to issues I've touched upon. But thanks for the lecture nonetheless. I have enough to chew on for rest of this year (assuming I want to be bothered by this).

Whether to accept, embrace and debate an alternative view point, with our existing bundle of knowledge, OR to reject it, is a choice we all have to make.. and I respect your choice.

 

14 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

He should rather stay mum on his frustrations, I'm sure teams have already started taking notice... Look how difficult it has been for Alonso to get back in

I slightly disagree.

He has the right to be upset if his equipment is proving inferior to his rivals. Although Using foul language is not the best option, but what can we say, these guys are literally putting there life on line each time they race, its hard to also judge them for what they say in the heat of the moment while racing.

Edited by blackpebel
Realized it was appropriate to add a word to the sentence.

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6 hours ago, blackpebel said:

I slightly disagree.

He has the right to be upset if his equipment is proving inferior to his rivals. Although Using foul language is not the best option, but what can we say, these guys are literally putting there life on line each time they race, its hard to also judge them for what they say in the heat of the moment while racing.

Every driver has the right to be upset when they know they have the ability to win races and championships. That honour not only applies to Verstappen and Alonso. We hear it from Hamilton to Vettel, normally during races, and everyone else. After the heat of the battle, they remain courteous and respectful to the team that employs them. Never bite the hand that feeds you! They can't go around like little spoilt brats venting their anger and frustrations. Those guys in the team garages offer up ALOT of their time and resources just putting the driver on track. It's an honour that bestows them to represent their team (they are afew elite group), whether in good or bad times.

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Great Webbo insight...

“I’m happy for him, I think it’s a great move from Aston Martin, for them a real masterstroke,” Webber told Channel 4.

“In terms of sheer knowledge, nobody at Racing Point from a driver’s perspective had that much knowledge going to a team.

“Whether it’s how the culture should be, technically taking a car on the R&D phase…Nico Hulkenberg yes, Sergio Perez yes, Lance Stroll, good drivers, but they’re not Vettel quality when it comes to the all-encompassing approach of being a professional Formula 1 driver.

“He’s going to be a big signing for them in the background and I really think that’s going to be a big step for them.

“He’s wanting 2022. That’s when he wants this team to be firing for results back towards the front.”

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Date 2020.09.21   Time 16:11 (UTC)

F1 off. website reports on Vettel

Quote

Vettel will extend his stay in F1 for at least two more years

That's contract with AM, with him having an exit clause after 1 yr.

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13 hours ago, Sakae said:

Date 2020.09.21   Time 16:11 (UTC)

F1 off. website reports on Vettel

That's contract with AM, with him having an exit clause after 1 yr.

Clever, he covered himself

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2 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Clever, he covered himself

I find rather interesting breath of opinions on his signing with AM. From "he is total wash out" to "he will push the team to new level".

Most of opinions by people in business who bothered to comment, is however predicting that Seb is racing because he likes it. AM will be midfield team. RP is now, and it will not change, such are predictions.

I am also not totally convinced that teams like Mercedes will fall into mud. They have data, they have know-how, they have human resources, and nothing will change that. This goes back when Honda left shining piece of property behind - for a nickel. 

AM has obviously some bright people on staff, but even with budgetary restrictions, teams will not start new term from the same baseline.

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