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Sakae

F1 - What's on your mind? (2021)

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Date 2021.06.08   Time 7:24 (UTC)

Brawn is being quoted commenting on Vettel's race, as this driver is "reborn", basically suggesting that psychological impact Ferrari inflicted upon this driver put him on downwards slope.

Maybe so, I am not sure. Many, including Rosberg and others declared Vettel as a person who is ready to retire because he is finish with racing (I am assuming not good enough to keep up). Rosberg, BTW somehow has receded into background, at least for now.

I do not agree with either "self-appointed experts". Being trashed by media, pundits, and fans is not really a good situation which improved his mood, but I think to leave out Ferrari car as an innocent bystander in this very personal period in life of this driver would be injustice. This year, more than ever, we see clearly how a driver and his car have to sing from the same music sheet. For far too long Vettel was perceived as incompetent, however now we see Alonso, DR, and a few others to struggle as well. Car, car, car...

The point? I am thinking about claims that first task of the driver is to defeat his teammate. Does that make any sense? Never did to me. I am returning back to duo Alonso and Kimi. One had a car designed for him, other one struggled.

In my definition driver is there to bring a car in one piece him, and collect as many points as he can, and if he gets high on podium, so much better. 

Any thoughts?   

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1 hour ago, Sakae said:

Date 2021.06.08   Time 7:24 (UTC)

Brawn is being quoted commenting on Vettel's race, as this driver is "reborn", basically suggesting that psychological impact Ferrari inflicted upon this driver put him on downwards slope.

Maybe so, I am not sure. Many, including Rosberg and others declared Vettel as a person who is ready to retire because he is finish with racing (I am assuming not good enough to keep up). Rosberg, BTW somehow has receded into background, at least for now.

I do not agree with either "self-appointed experts". Being trashed by media, pundits, and fans is not really a good situation which improved his mood, but I think to leave out Ferrari car as an innocent bystander in this very personal period in life of this driver would be injustice. This year, more than ever, we see clearly how a driver and his car have to sing from the same music sheet. For far too long Vettel was perceived as incompetent, however now we see Alonso, DR, and a few others to struggle as well. Car, car, car...

The point? I am thinking about claims that first task of the driver is to defeat his teammate. Does that make any sense? Never did to me. I am returning back to duo Alonso and Kimi. One had a car designed for him, other one struggled.

In my definition driver is there to bring a car in one piece him, and collect as many points as he can, and if he gets high on podium, so much better. 

Any thoughts?   

I've touched on this in the AM thread

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21 hours ago, Sakae said:

Date 2021.06.08   Time 7:24 (UTC)

Brawn is being quoted commenting on Vettel's race, as this driver is "reborn", basically suggesting that psychological impact Ferrari inflicted upon this driver put him on downwards slope.

Maybe so, I am not sure. Many, including Rosberg and others declared Vettel as a person who is ready to retire because he is finish with racing (I am assuming not good enough to keep up). Rosberg, BTW somehow has receded into background, at least for now.

I preferred him racing. For obvious reasons. Goalposts shifts. Realities of family life start kicking in. You lose some flair and skill. It's better to stay competitive. Although you preferred a sabbatical, the F1 pundits thought he was on a so-called decline. Rosberg at least did the honourable thing (sic) and praised him for the Monaco result.

No one went deeper than that. Seb's critics were having a good time.

21 hours ago, Sakae said:

Date 2021.06.08   Time 7:24 (UTC)

I do not agree with either "self-appointed experts". Being trashed by media, pundits, and fans is not really a good situation which improved his mood, but I think to leave out Ferrari car as an innocent bystander in this very personal period in life of this driver would be injustice. This year, more than ever, we see clearly how a driver and his car have to sing from the same music sheet. For far too long Vettel was perceived as incompetent, however now we see Alonso, DR, and a few others to struggle as well. Car, car, car...

The point? I am thinking about claims that first task of the driver is to defeat his teammate. Does that make any sense? Never did to me. I am returning back to duo Alonso and Kimi. One had a car designed for him, other one struggled.

In my definition driver is there to bring a car in one piece him, and collect as many points as he can, and if he gets high on podium, so much better. 

Any thoughts?   

I hope soon we will hear what really went on behind the scenes at Ferrari. The longer Seb performs, it will shine a uncomfortable public light on the clown and his dealings. The pendelum swung heavily in Leclerc' favour, unfortunately the history books will show a one sided result. Leclerc has not really been tested yet. He makes mistakes in "big races", and are in fact, a passenger of his driving style. I know ppl deep down know the truth and are not easily fooled. The TRUTH will come out. The scene of Seb feverously inspecting his loose pedal sounded big warnings, while his goofy garage team looked on, too scared to upset the clown. That picture told me ALOT. it's my opinion Seb got sabotaged (subtle), he was'nt allowed to compete, in order to justify the sacking. Now you have 2 relatively young drivers leading the team, it's inevitable it will lead to mistakes, as proven already. There is a big unknown as to how these 2. drivers will respond to a championship challenge. I'm happy Seb is away from the toxic environment with a clown in charge, the merits of that will long be discussed. This situation is not good for the Ferrari Board, the tifosi will get really suspicious from now onwards. I however, wish the Ferrari drivers well. Just remember, there's always a card that has your number. 

Fans tend to support their drivers more Sakae. It will never change, Ric will always be the driver that "toppled" Seb, Alonso will always be the master that whipped Kimi. They will throw the stats at you, never really understanding, or even taking the time to. It will never be about the harmony of driver and car, but the driver's result against his teammate. The team will always bear the brunt and cost of those expectations. It is a heavy burden to carry, with just keeping the car on the circuit. Williams case in point.

Seb is actually in the best position to dispel his doubters,. He can grow with his team into championship contenders. They are looking to almost double their workforce and with their new facilties soon, and Stroll's intent, I think it's a great place for Seb to be in. Hopefully next year... as you said, I'm an eternal optimist 😆

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Date 2021.06.12   Time 7:02 (UTC)

Quote

ALONSO: I DIDN’T THINK THAT EARLY SEASON CRITICISM WAS FAIR

Well, now you know how Vettel feels, being exposed to thoughtless, crude and offensive attacks on him and his character for very long time.

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Date 2021.06.16   Time 4:39 (UTC)

The problem is not Pirelli, but the logic behind tires role. The idea to dribble pepper on racing with tires of certain (prone to fail or poor performance) characteristics is dating back to time when overtaking was rare and infrequent. So, the idea of overtaking by attrition or random failure was born.

Englishman Hembery was managing F1 activities for Pirelli when this began. Encouraged by FiA and one or two individuals in paddock, he used to consult often with Whitmarsh, however guidance he received from that source was vague, abstract, and hardly exact in terms of specific physical characteristics. All of that is available on the internet - somewhere. It has taken a few season, before Pirelli could reproduce and replicate this kind of "unusual" product. (Crap is good word for it as any). Crashing cars, and dripping carbon fibber debris all over however will not do any good for any tire manufacturer. The same can be said about curbs, just as manipulating pressure outside of recommended limits.

To conclude, speeds are high, a reason why Pirelli needs a car and properly test tire on the track. Again, FiA needs to facilitate such process, instead creating problems by reaffirming specs too late, not giving Pirelli much time (they requested), as it happened a few times. Those are the facts. Pirelli receives a lot of flak, but I think we are barking on wrong tree. Pirelli did in the past produced an excellent tire, and I am sure they can do the same today, if F1 let them.

  • Proper specs for development of high, long lasting performance tire issued in August preceding year.
  • Affording them several types of cars for testing several variants (researching thermal effects), driver, and enough time on specialised track (similar all car makers use for their development).

Tires will be seen, but not discussed as main topic of a race again. As a fan I am not in favour of multiple suppliers, as such situation introduces another variable, and I don't want tires to dominate discussions, as at one time used to be. 

 

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13 hours ago, Sakae said:

Date 2021.06.16   Time 4:39 (UTC)

The problem is not Pirelli, but the logic behind tires role. The idea to dribble pepper on racing with tires of certain (prone to fail or poor performance) characteristics is dating back to time when overtaking was rare and infrequent. So, the idea of overtaking by attrition or random failure was born.

Englishman Hembery was managing F1 activities for Pirelli when this began. Encouraged by FiA and one or two individuals in paddock, he used to consult often with Whitmarsh, however guidance he received from that source was vague, abstract, and hardly exact in terms of specific physical characteristics. All of that is available on the internet - somewhere. It has taken a few season, before Pirelli could reproduce and replicate this kind of "unusual" product. (Crap is good word for it as any). Crashing cars, and dripping carbon fibber debris all over however will not do any good for any tire manufacturer. The same can be said about curbs, just as manipulating pressure outside of recommended limits.

To conclude, speeds are high, a reason why Pirelli needs a car and properly test tire on the track. Again, FiA needs to facilitate such process, instead creating problems by reaffirming specs too late, not giving Pirelli much time (they requested), as it happened a few times. Those are the facts. Pirelli receives a lot of flak, but I think we are barking on wrong tree. Pirelli did in the past produced an excellent tire, and I am sure they can do the same today, if F1 let them.

  • Proper specs for development of high, long lasting performance tire issued in August preceding year.
  • Affording them several types of cars for testing several variants (researching thermal effects), driver, and enough time on specialised track (similar all car makers use for their development).

Tires will be seen, but not discussed as main topic of a race again. As a fan I am not in favour of multiple suppliers, as such situation introduces another variable, and I don't want tires to dominate discussions, as at one time used to be. 

 

+1

You leave me sometimes without words. 

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Pirelli should take F1 to the court, and seek damages to the brand in 9 figure amount. Let Dome and FiA sort out who did what after they pay out which should teach them some manners. Drivers I think are brainwashed and barking on wrong tree, just as not all are on the same page. This is not Pirelli problem but team principals who started that s****. As I noted earlier, there is a lot offered for correction, but needless complaining is not one of them.

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On 2021.06.22 12:28 (UTC)

Ferrari has ‘unsolvable’ problems - Binotto

Well Mr. Binotto, you are one of those who voted to drop on track testing. All smart people sitting at their desks monitoring computer screens did not prevent a disaster. Lost year and any aspirations you may dreamt about. Probably trophies, fame, and money. In Schumacher's time you would know you had a problem already in October in previous year, and you could do something about it. Poor performance data collected at the track would tell you that.

Today - go fish.  

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On 2021.06.25 5:38 (UTC)

I would not be so fast to proclaim driver's power rating (new fad) more accurate representation who is who, and where he should stand on scale of greatness. I am not shooting it down, however there are some hiccups I wish to address. 

First of all, I do not understand how Driver Power Rating is evaluated, however I have some understanding of basic statistics, and human bias, and not everything is in synch.

I am not aware of any system in existence, which is quantitatively dependable to produce accurate outcome in these games. Who are the judges? Are they all playing by the same rules? Are those the same people who declared Vettel in P16 as wash out driver who should be in retirement, whereas another driver in P16 is a God who drives for an incompetent team? Are they the same people who declared LH greatest of all time based on optics? And on, and on, and on...

Flawed evaluation system replaced by another flawed evaluation system will not fix my mood, so why bother at all (speaking to myself, of course)? It is what it is, and it is also the only thing which will count in December, like it, or hate it. I lost last bit of respect for WDC long time ago. WCC is not far behind. How can anyone be happy with rules which punishes a driver when a part of his car needs to change? Make sense? Sorry, but not to me. Too many variables to say with a straight face one driver is better or worse than someone else.

So, why I am still in? I like Vettel's personality, and as long as he drives, I am in.

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1 hour ago, Sakae said:

On 2021.06.25 5:38 (UTC)

I would not be so fast to proclaim driver's power rating (new fad) more accurate representation who is who, and where he should stand on scale of greatness. I am not shooting it down, however there are some hiccups I wish to address. 

First of all, I do not understand how Driver Power Rating is evaluated, however I have some understanding of basic statistics, and human bias, and not everything is in synch.

I am not aware of any system in existence, which is quantitatively dependable to produce accurate outcome in these games. Who are the judges? Are they all playing by the same rules? Are those the same people who declared Vettel in P16 as wash out driver who should be in retirement, whereas another driver in P16 is a God who drives for an incompetent team? Are they the same people who declared LH greatest of all time based on optics? And on, and on, and on...

Flawed evaluation system replaced by another flawed evaluation system will not fix my mood, so why bother at all (speaking to myself, of course)? It is what it is, and it is also the only thing which will count in December, like it, or hate it. I lost last bit of respect for WDC long time ago. WCC is not far behind. How can anyone be happy with rules which punishes a driver when a part of his car needs to change? Make sense? Sorry, but not to me. Too many variables to say with a straight face one driver is better or worse than someone else.

So, why I am still in? I like Vettel's personality, and as long as he drives, I am in.

Not only that, it appeases certain biases

Case in point...

https://the-race.com/formula-1/edd-straws-french-gp-driver-ratings-reader-debate/

Look at this article, then look at the readers comments below... MAKE SURE TO READ IT. We not the only ones picking it up.

As I've stated, I followed the French gp online and on the telly... Vettel is scarcely mentioned. The bias against him.... is remarkable...unfounded

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1 hour ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Not only that, it appeases certain biases

Case in point...

https://the-race.com/formula-1/edd-straws-french-gp-driver-ratings-reader-debate/

Look at this article, then look at the readers comments below... MAKE SURE TO READ IT. We not the only ones picking it up.

As I've stated, I followed the French gp online and on the telly... Vettel is scarcely mentioned. The bias against him.... is remarkable...unfounded

I came to "know" Mr. Straw at Autosport. (I think it was Atlas then...) It's some 20 years ago or thereabout.  I've lost touch with his creative writing very long time ago (thanks Lord), and maybe he is different now, but I really don't care. People like him, Brawn, Brown, and many others actually will succeed to chase me away from this (alleged) sport for good.

I have enough, fatigue is settling in, and enough is becoming too much. Racial and ethnic conflicts are cruel, often explosive, and irrational, someone said. I concur. 

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5 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Dominant team complaining about rival innovative pistops... I don't know what to say anymore

In F1 one can find plenty suitable materials for developing doctoral thesis in psychology showing causative effects between aggression, and downfall from grace when formerly relatively decent people become nuisance to society. 

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“But we don’t control what Red Bull do and are grateful that they announced Dan. “He’s a great addition to our team, he’s a like-minded individual, he’s a high-performer, he’s won world championships, he knows Seb [Vettel]. So we look forward to him joining. The start time, we’re still working on that.”

It’s a marathon, it’s not a sprint so I think the important thing is that we get the right people,” said Szafnauer when asked by The Race about the challenge of recruitment.

“You’d rather have the right people in your team as opposed to getting somebody very quickly, but that doesn’t work out."

I'm glad they are mentioning this last bit... There might be a problem growing too fast

 

What’s clear is that Aston Martin luring one of Red Bull’s key aerodynamic personnel shows how big a player it is becoming in the F1 employment market – and just how strong a team is being assembled to build on the existing strengths of the Silverstone-based team.

And the fact Red Bull wants to ensure Fallows’s move is delayed as long as possible, as well as seemingly being willing to play games with the announcement, is also telling in terms of how seriously Aston Martin is perceived as a rival.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/red-bulls-precedent-for-playing-hardball-over-aston-signing/

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Spare a thought for the finn...

They have to resort to other measures now that they are not the leading team...

 

"During the subsequent hearing Bottas stated that in the past Mercedes have been losing time in the pit departure, so they tried something new, which was to leave in second gear. As a result, the wheel spin was much higher and the result unexpected. Therefore he didn’t manage to control the car properly into the fast lane."

"Speaking to reporters after the hearing, Bottas said: "Yeah, I spun. We tried something different coming out of the box and there were some variables compared to what I normally do and that's why I spun.""

https://www.pitpass.com/70079/Bottas-penalised-for-pitlane-spin

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What do you think about MB' admission, that second driver (after Bottas) has to be approved by Hamilton. (I am hoping that my interpretation is correct one).

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7 minutes ago, Sakae said:

What do you think about MB' admission, that second driver (after Bottas) has to be approved by Hamilton. (I am hoping that my interpretation is correct one).

Ham needs a lackey, also someone not as good as him. I see a long tough negoatiation road ahead for Russel, altho I despise having 2 Brits in the same team.

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1 minute ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Ham needs a lackey, also someone not as good as him. I see a long tough negoatiation road ahead for Russel, altho I despise having 2 Brits in the same team.

I find rather amusing that no one is holding LH responsible to his past boastful rhetoric that he can drive with anyone. He critiqued Vettel that he is approving his teammates (something that was never admitted or proven, as far as I know), whereas Hamilton openly refused to drive alongside Alonso at MB, and now again this. It is really difficult to like this guy.

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2 minutes ago, Sakae said:

I find rather amusing that no one is holding LH responsible to his past boastful rhetoric that he can drive with anyone. He critiqued Vettel that he is approving his teammates (something that was never admitted or proven, as far as I know), whereas Hamilton openly refused to drive alongside Alonso at MB, and now again this. It is really difficult to like this guy.

I thought about that point but did not bring it up.

hypocritical at best

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