Azerbaijan Grand Prix 2021

[KoolMonkey 0]

10 hours ago, Sakae said:

Date 2021.06.08   Time 15:22 (UTC)

One of the sideline experts (I think it was Rosberg, not sure of it) was busy letting whole world know how Vettel has lost trust of his side of his garage, and how relationships are at freezing point. Seeing however crowd reaction immediately after race once Vettel parked his car, it did not look to me frosty at all. The team was elated.

Checo stated it would take about 5+ race to feel comfortable in his new car and environment. He wins a race in his 6th start for RB.

Vettel also said it would take a little time to get comfortable. Yet the Brit media have been attacking him relentlessly even dragging in fools like Nico on the subject, who I still admire for taking down Lulu. But in his 5th and 6th race, he places well, then comes within a whisker of winning a race.

Both drivers were correct. It takes time to adapt. Russell almost winning a race in his only start in a Merc just goes to show how dominant that car is for a driver who has > abilities and skills that Bottas, which is more than half the field isn't it if we are being honest. Deadmeat indeed.

I yearn for the days where F1 drivers in a current car, can goto the track and test. It does not cost as much as the FIA makes us believe. Compared to the $5m or so it would cost to re-design a front or rear wing. Teams are spending and wasting millions upon millions in stupid miniscule little areas of the car. I argue that money would be better spent on track testing. It would also help with suspected tyre issues and failures too. I mean Merc are still benefitting from their illegal tyre test aren't they.

Absolutely ridiculous that this "sport" doesn't allow any testing that is relevant. Some chump doing laps in a 2 year old car at Paul Ricard for Pirelli doesn't count.

[KoolMonkey 0]

11 hours ago, blackpebel said:

Its good to see Hamilton in an average situation, making average mistakes, he deserves to be where others drivers have been against him all this while. Remember when I spoke about the conspiracy of Mercedes trying to manipulate the whole field coz they had such a huge advantage. We spoke about that a looong time ago.. and here: Fear of rules change led mercedes to run dominant 2014 engine in idle mode. They had been doing it since ever, the chart proves it. Redbull for the first time has thrown down the gauntlet, and it feels right. Honda has more power being added after France,, cool...

I have been meaning to post a topic specifically about this. And all the times Wolff would lie and claim they were the underdogs, or AFTER a race claim, they were very lucky to finish and were about to retire a car. ALL TOTAL bulls##t. They also propagated the false claim that Ferrari had a faster car in 2018 and 2019. For a short time they did, but they had to cheat to achieve this. Yet no one asks why Merc can be dominate for so long? No team in history had done this. It's abnormal in so many ways for a team to be at the top this long.

The one thing Wolff learned from RBR when Vettel and Webber were tearing up the tracks, is that if you are too dominant, the FIA and other rules or restrictions will be brought into place. The same happened during Schumi's Ferrari reign.

I have posted many times, and have known for years that Merc were never running close to 100% of their true speed in that engine. I also would state that I feel the times they have lost races in the past, was because they became arrogant and dialed their car in too slow thinking they would still take a win. Then they'd get surprised another team is on good pace, and by then it would be too late to change the engine mapping etc. This also would explain why Hamilton wouldn't be too upset about not winning as he knew the next race they would just dial it up and smash it home for a win. Would be interesting to see statistics on how many times Merc lost, then the very next race, dominated.

I haven't formulated a view of this year yet, but in past years Merc have 100% fudged their speed and manipulated races. That's why Deadmeat continues to drive car #2. The best schmucks or patsies are the ones that don't know they are one. Rubens and Massa can relate. In the end they figured it out, which I think the penny has dropped for Bottas now. He can't be so stupid as to believe Merc give a stuff about him. Wolff blamed him for the wheel nut failure in Monaco. Insane logic. Even if his car was a few inches off the marks, the other 3x tyres went on properly. I'm not Bottas fan, but it was and is wrong on so many levels for a team head to blame a driver for such a failure. But Wolff blames his own team for not supplying a good enough car for Lulu. Disgraceful and as a life long F1 fan, a huge reason why I have zoned out and turned off from the "sport".
 

[Sakae 0]

1 hour ago, KoolMonkey said:

Checo stated it would take about 5+ race to feel comfortable in his new car and environment. He wins a race in his 6th start for RB.

Vettel also said it would take a little time to get comfortable. Yet the Brit media have been attacking him relentlessly even dragging in fools like Nico on the subject, who I still admire for taking down Lulu. But in his 5th and 6th race, he places well, then comes within a whisker of winning a race.

Both drivers were correct. It takes time to adapt. Russell almost winning a race in his only start in a Merc just goes to show how dominant that car is for a driver who has > abilities and skills that Bottas, which is more than half the field isn't it if we are being honest. Deadmeat indeed.

I yearn for the days where F1 drivers in a current car, can goto the track and test. It does not cost as much as the FIA makes us believe. Compared to the $5m or so it would cost to re-design a front or rear wing. Teams are spending and wasting millions upon millions in stupid miniscule little areas of the car. I argue that money would be better spent on track testing. It would also help with suspected tyre issues and failures too. I mean Merc are still benefitting from their illegal tyre test aren't they.

Absolutely ridiculous that this "sport" doesn't allow any testing that is relevant. Some chump doing laps in a 2 year old car at Paul Ricard for Pirelli doesn't count.

Most of cost cutting measures were implemented under pressure from small teams who could not afford it. Cutting on testing IMO is false economic measure on several levels.  

[BradSpeedMan 6]

13 hours ago, blackpebel said:

Its good to see Hamilton in an average situation, making average mistakes, he deserves to be where others drivers have been against him all this while. Remember when I spoke about the conspiracy of Mercedes trying to manipulate the whole field coz they had such a huge advantage. We spoke about that a looong time ago.. and here: Fear of rules change led mercedes to run dominant 2014 engine in idle mode. They had been doing it since ever, the chart proves it. Redbull for the first time has thrown down the gauntlet, and it feels right. Honda has more power being added after France,, cool...

 

Bp, maybe I'm understanding you wrong, I don't know how you can justify that Merc played the teams leading up to the hybrid V6 era. The article relates to 2014. No one is disputing that they sandbagged in 2014...

"Lowe said the team realised how far ahead of the competition it was towards the end of pre-season testing in 2014. Its engine chief Andy Cowell was initially concerned about the performance and reliability of their new PU105B V6 hybrid turbo.

“I’ve seen Andy’s descriptions of it, much of which we didn’t really know at the time because they were busy with the work, not telling everyone what their problems were,” Lowe told the official F1 website. “It was a very, very tough period and they had absolutely no confidence."

[blackpebel 0]

 

27 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

"Lowe said the team realised how far ahead of the competition it was towards the end of pre-season testing in 2014. Its engine chief Andy Cowell was initially concerned about the performance and reliability of their new PU105B V6 hybrid turbo.

They were concerned about the Performance of the PU BEFORE the test, when they had not yet compared their PU with the other PU's.

All these concerns and feeling of no confidence in the PU was BEFORE they knew they had something special compared to others.. The article goes on to read...

“But I think as we got to the first test, certainly into the second test, it became more clear that some others were in desperate disarray, mentioning no names, and that we were in reasonably good shape.

“Then we came with another upgrade in the Bahrain test, which was literally a bolt-on extra that was suddenly another seven or eight tenths in horsepower. That was an enormous day. And we knew at that point that we were in some quite special territory.”

 

33 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Bp, maybe I'm understanding you wrong, I don't know how you can justify that Merc played the teams leading up to the hybrid V6 era.

There was a long conversation we had back in July last year where you asked me the same( /similar) question.. there was a lot that I shared back then, ill post the link again to those conversations.. please read from July 22nd onwards.. Here

[blackpebel 0]

46 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Bp, maybe I'm understanding you wrong, I don't know how you can justify that Merc played the teams leading up to the hybrid V6 era.

And This

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I've never disagreed that they sandbagged during the season. It was clear and obvious to see. I agree with you

I'm questioning your claim that MB fooled the entire FIA and teams when  they first started discussing this V6 era hybrid era rules. Show me the proof. 

[Sakae 0]

Date 2021.06.09   Time 6:00 (UTC)

If I can chime in, I also think that accusation that MB played other teams might be not entirely proper or accurate. I ask you to kindly indulge my reasoning for saying it.

It is my interpretation that well after start of 2014 season, no one really knew exactly where everyone stands in regarding performance of their hybrid prototype. Teams do test in mechanical laboratories, but that's not enough. (Ask Honda about mis-calibrated dyno). Disparities between teams became obvious as 2014 season progressed. Declaring what was in effect moratorium on new technology in its first year of introduction wasn't smartest thing F1 has done. When they realised MB has far more superior product, instead blabbing about dynasties, FiA should have stepped in and ensure there is balance. Why they haven't done it, I don't know.

Rhetoric such as "rules are the same for all" misses its mark totally. Some teams, and it has been said MB was one of those, internally were working on hybrid systems from 2009/2010 or thereabout on commuter cars. (Honda was a second one.) In 2014 F1-MB division was on different baseline compare to Ferrari for example, so no, they did not started with the same cumulative knowledge about development. 

It was known that trio MB, Ferrari and Renault used to meet with FiA (2012 forward) and collaboratively they developed specs. Some claims were made that MB had some extra meetings, however I am not convinced that we know what exactly was said at those meetings. Blaming MB one has to show that during said meetings MB said one thing, and at home did exactly opposite. It is not reasonable to assume they were couching Renault and Ferrari "wrong way". Both companies aren't fools, and they were able to make their own minds, but their problem was, they started relatively later than MB, and when it was needed, FiA cuffed their research. Benefactor was of course MB. Big way, if I may say so. It is mystery that FiA personnel involved in this mess still have their jobs, instead bagging groceries in some supermarket.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

1 hour ago, Sakae said:

Date 2021.06.09   Time 6:00 (UTC)

If I can chime in, I also think that accusation that MB played other teams might be not entirely proper or accurate. I ask you to kindly indulge my reasoning for saying it.

It is my interpretation that well after start of 2014 season, no one really knew exactly where everyone stands in regarding performance of their hybrid prototype. Teams do test in mechanical laboratories, but that's not enough. (Ask Honda about mis-calibrated dyno). Disparities between teams became obvious as 2014 season progressed. Declaring what was in effect moratorium on new technology in its first year of introduction wasn't smartest thing F1 has done. When they realised MB has far more superior product, instead blabbing about dynasties, FiA should have stepped in and ensure there is balance. Why they haven't done it, I don't know.

Rhetoric such as "rules are the same for all" misses its mark totally. Some teams, and it has been said MB was one of those, internally were working on hybrid systems from 2009/2010 or thereabout on commuter cars. (Honda was a second one.) In 2014 F1-MB division was on different baseline compare to Ferrari for example, so no, they did not started with the same cumulative knowledge about development. 

It was known that trio MB, Ferrari and Renault used to meet with FiA (2012 forward) and collaboratively they developed specs. Some claims were made that MB had some extra meetings, however I am not convinced that we know what exactly was said at those meetings. Blaming MB one has to show that during said meetings MB said one thing, and at home did exactly opposite. It is not reasonable to assume they were couching Renault and Ferrari "wrong way". Both companies aren't fools, and they were able to make their own minds, but their problem was, they started relatively later than MB, and when it was needed, FiA cuffed their research. Benefactor was of course MB. Big way, if I may say so. It is mystery that FiA personnel involved in this mess still have their jobs, instead bagging groceries in some supermarket.

Always great to read your thoughts and wisdom

[Sakae 0]

Quote

Is Tsunoda the new Kimi on the radio?
This week it was, “Just shut up!!”.

Not a typical Japanese, but I like how quickly he gets his point across.

[blackpebel 0]

15 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

I've never disagreed that they sandbagged during the season. It was clear and obvious to see. I agree with you

I'm questioning your claim that MB fooled the entire FIA and teams when  they first started discussing this V6 era hybrid era rules.

On Page 3 and 4 of the Here .. I tried to offer my detailed explanation for why I thought Merc had an undue advantage...

Sakae agreed to Merc having a, more than adequate head start after all the conversation back than..

15 hours ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Show me the proof. 

Once again,, Here: Montezemolo: mercedes worked on their f1 engine since 2007

“Lauda recently confessed to me that Mercedes were already working [on their hybrid engine] since 2007 and that’s why they so adamant during the negotiations to introduce V6 engines from 2014.”

[BradSpeedMan 6]

9 hours ago, blackpebel said:

On Page 3 and 4 of the Here .. I tried to offer my detailed explanation for why I thought Merc had an undue advantage...

Sakae agreed to Merc having a, more than adequate head start after all the conversation back than..

Once again,, Here: Montezemolo: mercedes worked on their f1 engine since 2007

“Lauda recently confessed to me that Mercedes were already working [on their hybrid engine] since 2007 and that’s why they so adamant during the negotiations to introduce V6 engines from 2014.”

So, you agree. They were ADAMANT to push the rules through, but all the teams around the discussion table agreed??? How on earth is this fooling everybody????" Teams had to be convinced. Here is possibly the scenario of what happened.  Wolff: Guys, we experimented with this particular technology and found X equals X equals Y. More environmental firendly vs electrical vs cost-saving. Here's the proof! "FIA chief Jean Todt said at the time, “Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari knew for five years what engines they would need to use this year. Mercedes has simply done a better job. Such is motor sport.” 5 YEARS!! All the teams were looking after their best interest, How is that fooling everybody?  Yes, It suited Merc, because they had a great engineering culture and are familiar with the technology, Is it a team' fault that they predict and experiment where they think the future development of F1 engines direction should go and make a strong case for it. 

I call that slick. What do you think?

Luca underestimated  and backed the new proposal because of pride.. "Montezemolo also admitted that he erred in accepting the new F1 regulations, “Yes, I made a mistake. But I felt I could not put Ferrari in a position that would we would be seen as anti-development. A fearful Ferrari could not be my Ferrari.”e er..Why did'nt you push through your novel engine proposal Luca! Or did no one else thought it sustainable?

Have you even read this article carefully?

[blackpebel 0]

36 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

They were ADAMANT to push the rules through, but all the teams around the discussion table agreed???

Que: Why were Mercedes ADAMANT?

Ans in Lucas Word's: “Lauda recently confessed to me that Mercedes were already working [on their hybrid engine] since 2007 and that’s why they so adamant during the negotiations to introduce V6 engines from 2014.”

47 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Is it a team' fault that they predict and experiment where they think the future development of F1 engines direction should go and make a strong case for it. 

They were making a strong case only for THEMSELVES,, and that's because they had been experimenting with it since 2007.. Not because they cared for the future of the whole F1 field.

Lauda gave a 'confession'.....  what does one mean by giving a 'confession'?

Confession:

 

1 hour ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Have you even read this article carefully?

Yes sir.

This, and a LOT of other articles around this issue.

And not just what met the eye, but also what was available between the lines.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Neither of us are going to win here.🤣 Let's settle it on  a difference of opinion. Just a tad far-fetched IMHO. But I need to respect yours too

[blackpebel 0]

6 minutes ago, BradSpeedMan said:

Neither of us are going to win here.🤣 Let's settle it on  a difference of opinion. Just a tad far-fetched IMHO. But I need to respect yours too

Aye.

😁🤟 Fair enough bro.. fair enough.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

4 minutes ago, blackpebel said:

Aye.

😁🤟 Fair enough bro.. fair enough.

👊