Button Predicts Ferrari Decline

[Jenson_Rules 0]

well thats very very true, although some say he is legend already, which to be honest he is pretty much!

[Chris Strange 0]

Senna became a legend because he will stay as a myth. MS is arguably a better driver than him but it's true he doesn't have the same special charisma Senna had. Speaking of Gods may I remind you that Senna was a genuine believer and has publicly revealed his faith. Maybe that's part oh his strange mythical aura...... On the other hand MS will be remembered for all his records and I'm afraid that nowadays figures speaks better than aura....

[Jet 0]

Of course if JPM, KR, JB, or even RS will be fast and even faster on occasion as Michael if they're all driving identically prepared Ferrari's.

But over the course of a season I still think Michael would be ahead. I mean look at the 2003 season, it was damn close, but credit to him he still won. Has anyone seen the British show that analysed his driving graphs compared to Herbert i believe? It shows the small details that over time give him the advantage.

Anyone here that goes karting be it professional or recreational should understand this. There's always one fast kart at those public places, and the top drivers are always within few tenths of each other, just as they would be in a ferrari. But in a race getting through traffic, consistant laps and having the stamina and muscle strength to sustain that for almost 2 hours are factors it seems people are not considering here. And we all know there is much more to Michael's ability than just his innate apitude for speed. His prepartion is second to none and no one can argue that those other drivers are as dedicated in that respect.

[xenna 0]

Everytime someone claims Schumi is only good because he is in the best car is to ignore the fact that Ferrari had not won a WC since 1979 and it took Schumi five years to bring it back to Ferrari. And when he wasn't winning in clearly a less fast and unreliable car from 96-99, he consistantly fought for the title. Even the  Benneton wasn't fastest and when he left, look how other drivers did in the same or better car.

So the question is can Button, Montoya or Kimi transform a team like Schumi. I doubt that. They haven't done it yet, not even close.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TELL THEM...Their hatred of the man has blinded them to his team's achievements

[xenna 0]

but they are ****ing close to being gods! Senna at least!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a blasphemy!!

[ecapdeville 0]

Prost to Senna in 1988:

[rebbewin 0]

To which I completly agree. I Know and agree that MS is superior, but he is not GOD as some may try to portray. He has the best equipment and the team to support and the talent and what else does one to need to?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mind you! Ferrari were mediocre before Shumacher joined them.( as xenna and jet pointed out) Jenson has missed the point. Michael has the abillity to mold a team around him and perform accordingly.

He also has one of the best F1 brains in the bussiness. Not only is he consistently fast but he knows at what point to put the presure on.

How many races has he won by uping his pace during a critical moment during the pit stop periods. To many! He's the master of taking positions while the others are piting.

He also does his best to stay out of trouble in races. Mind you it tends to be because everyone's receiving the blue flag but it's not luck that keeps him on the track while other's meet the gravel.

So i don't totally believe Button when he goes on about this and that about M$.

True some driver's would have achieved similar success if they were to race for Ferrari, but it's only due to M$'s and the people around him who helped build ferrari into the team it is today.

Ps. I agree with you Monty regarding the fact people talk about him as if he was GOD but in the same light i don't agree to M$ bashing for the sake of it. It's not right to hose down a persons achievments because of his sheer dominance. I too, can't wait for the day M$ is beaten consistently and i hope it's done by producing nail bitting races, right to the wire!!!

[ykickamoocow 0]

In the past few seasons it has been dominated by Ferrari who we all know have a huge buget. Whenever MS has a bad start to a race he stuffs up all the time. I remember the last Grandprix of 2003, everything that moved MS ran into. MS is a great driver when he isnt under pressure but when he has heavy competion and he is doing badly he crumbles under the pressure. Senna never did that

[Sato 0]

Indeed he does.

[nojvnof1 0]

All the greats prove themselves when they're pressurised the most, and when M$ is under pressure, he's dire, very very dire.

[ksajoe 0]

All the greats prove themselves when they're pressurised the most, and when M$ is under pressure, he's dire, very very dire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree, so dire that he indeed takes the championship! If you asked me - that's a nice dire!!

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Schumacher must have the worst record of any driver who's had to fight for the title at the last race

[Max Mosley 2]

Schumacher must have the worst record of any driver who's had to fight for the title at the last race

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nobody is denying that he has a weakness here but he has many other strengths that are sometimes overlooked and which have meant that it hasn't held him back too much: maybe he should have won 9 instead of only 7 titles! Secondly he clearly doesn't have the worst record in title deciders (think eg Eddie Irvine in the very same team): I think his record is 2:2 which is as good as JV's btw and before you all say he won them by cheating lets not forget that Senna and (I think) Fangio won titles by "cheating" too so he's at least in good company there (except they had better cheating records). Thirdly if we are going to judge drivers on their records I think I know who's going to win. Finally lets look at the big picture: one of the most dominant teams in world sport is paying him one of the biggest salaries in world sport to win with them. You don't get into that position because you're not very good and everybody in the paddock knows this eg Frank Williams says he wants to find the next MS or when DC is honest enough to admit that MS is better than him so I think we should look beyond his one weakness as well.

[ksajoe 0]

Nobody is denying that he has a weakness here but he has many other strengths that are sometimes overlooked and which have meant that it hasn't held him back too much: maybe he should have won 9 instead of only 7 titles!  Secondly he clearly doesn't have the worst record in title deciders (think eg Eddie Irvine in the very same team): I think his record is 2:2 which is as good as JV's btw and before you all say he won them by cheating lets not forget that Senna and (I think) Fangio won titles by "cheating" too so he's at least in good company there (except they had better cheating records).  Thirdly if we are going to judge drivers on their records I think I know who's going to win.  Finally lets look at the big picture: one of the most dominant teams in world sport is paying him one of the biggest salaries in world sport to win with them.  You don't get into that position because you're not very good and everybody in the paddock knows this eg Frank Williams says he wants to find the next MS or when DC is honest enough to admit that MS is better than him so I think we should look beyond his one weakness as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nobody is interested in looking at MS's strengths - they are too many!

[Jenson_Rules 0]

okok, calm down, just because barely any of us like the man! I never said hes crap, but hes not as great as every1 makes him out to be, and he certainly isnt masses ahead of every1 else in driving skils and in a fair fight he would be beaten alot easier if he wasnt in a ferrari!

[ksajoe 0]

okok, calm down, just because barely any of us like the man! I never said hes crap, but hes not as great as every1 makes him out to be, and he certainly isnt masses ahead of every1 else in driving skils and in a fair fight he would be beaten alot easier if he wasnt in a ferrari!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well all the top guns have a chance to stick it to him while he is in the interim car that we all know is not firing on all cylinders. So if FA, KR, JPM , JB & MW botch it up .... too bad!

[Jenson_Rules 0]

i think ull find that the interim car is still better than the williams and the BAR, so i dont think it would be too difficult for him to beat webber nd button, an it wouldnt be difficul to beat webber if he was in the best car either!

[rebbewin 0]

i think ull find that the interim car is still better than the williams and the BAR, so i dont think it would be too difficult for him to beat webber nd button, an it wouldnt be difficul to beat webber if he was in the best car either!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I strongly disagree!!!!!! Can't wait to see him prove you wrong!!!!!!!!!!

[nojvnof1 0]

He's still good enough to win titles, of course he is, it's just that when he's under pressure in races he rarely performs, and relies on others misfortune, the stats back it up!! If we're talking about title strike ratios, JV is 1 out of 2, M$ is 7 from about 9 or 10 and Senna 3 from 4, but it should be 4 as he was robbed of Suzuka 89, but that's another story altogether. M$ is great don't get me wrong, but he's not my no.1, he has many strengths, that's no argument but he has some big weaknesses too. As I read in an article today, no other champion has had as many offs as M$.

[Monty 0]

As I read in an article today, no other champion has had as many offs as M$.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do you mean by he has had many offs?

Can you please elaborate?

thanks

[Taku 0]

"offs" refer to excursions off the track. due to spins, crashes, accidents and other errors etc

[Max Mosley 2]

He's still good enough to win titles, of course he is, it's just that when he's under pressure in races he rarely performs, and relies on others misfortune, the stats back it up!! If we're talking about title strike ratios, JV is 1 out of 2, M$ is 7 from about 9 or 10 and Senna 3 from 4, but it should be 4 as he was robbed of Suzuka 89, but that's another story altogether. M$ is great don't get me wrong, but he's not my no.1, he has many strengths, that's no argument but he has some big weaknesses too. As I read in an article today, no other champion has had as many offs as M$.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK whether he's the greatest of all time is obviously debatable but I can only think of Senna as another contender and I look forward to that discussion! My real point was that the posts on here don't really reflect the fact that we think he's one of the greatest ever drivers: if an alien with no knowledge of F1 (like most aliens presumably) were reading them they could only conclude that he's a nasty person who cheats, crumbles under pressure and only wins because he's in a Ferrari. I think its clear that description has some truth in it but is very one-sided. What about why he's in the best team, his fitness levels and his dedication as well as his obvious driving ability? I wish people would put aside their jealousy more often and stop wishing MS would go away because he's too good.

I'm interested to know what happened in 89 with Senna? Do you not object to his "cheating" in 90 as well? Btw I don't call it cheating so its not meant to be a trick question.

[Max Mosley 2]

I read in an article today, no other champion has had as many wins as M$.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry I couldn't resist after the posts in the "How true do you find" thread. I'll stop being so childish now.

[Chris Strange 0]

I'm sure Sato has crashed more in one season than MS in his entire career, and while Sato is going to keep on crashing Michael is going to keep on winning, it's as simple as that.

[ksajoe 0]

JB is too scared to predict BAR's decline - Toyota will finish ahead of them this season, just you mark my words!