Shadow 0 Report post Posted August 24, 2005 hello pot, this is the kettle! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Mosley 2 Report post Posted August 24, 2005 Button himself said that Richards was the real problem, and not Jacques. He even feels JV's attacks on him pre-season were pretty much a result of all the crap DR had done to him and that DR had manipulated the both of them to inflame the situation further, making Jacques look even more a poor team player. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OK. You all make a strong case that DR was more to blame than JV for the falling out but forgive me if I don't completely trust 4 JV fan(atics) just yet. Are JB's comments you refer to above on the internet? I have just looked briefly and the whole situation seems very confused. On the one hand JV had a contract and status in the team that DR was justified in wanting to change in time imo but given how he treated JB perhaps he did go about this the wrong way. On the other hand given JV's previously privileged role/reputation I do think he had an obligation to prove to DR (and the rest of the team) that he was a positive influence and worth keeping if they doubted this. Furthermore he presumably resented the fact that DR replaced his friend CP and I can't help but think this influenced how he acted around DR. I doubt whether we can really know at this stage what actually went on because even JB has fallen out with DR now and is biased (but I'd like to hear what he has to say). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fed up 0 Report post Posted August 24, 2005 OK. You all make a strong case that DR was more to blame than JV for the falling out but forgive me if I don't completely trust 4 JV fan(atics) just yet. Are JB's comments you refer to above on the internet? I have just looked briefly and the whole situation seems very confused. On the one hand JV had a contract and status in the team that DR was justified in wanting to change in time imo but given how he treated JB perhaps he did go about this the wrong way. On the other hand given JV's previously privileged role/reputation I do think he had an obligation to prove to DR (and the rest of the team) that he was a positive influence and worth keeping if they doubted this. Furthermore he presumably resented the fact that DR replaced his friend CP and I can't help but think this influenced how he acted around DR. I doubt whether we can really know at this stage what actually went on because even JB has fallen out with DR now and is biased (but I'd like to hear what he has to say). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Murray, I dont know why you bother arguing with the JV fan(atics) - These guys are die hard fans and appear to most to be blind, drunk or both Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jenson_Rules 0 Report post Posted August 24, 2005 Murray, I dont know why you bother arguing with the JV fan(atics) - These guys are die hard fans and appear to most to be blind, drunk or both <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here! I'm the only resident drunk here! JV fans are just very passionate about their man, but someone really should tell them to take off their rose tinted glass's! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bajo39 0 Report post Posted August 24, 2005 Here! I'm the only resident drunk here! JV fans are just very passionate about their man, but someone really should tell them to take off their rose tinted glass's! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am drunk, in fact, but the independent PF1 panel has spoken and they have said that the JV-Massa battle is the most competitive of the season despite the Canadian's atrocious start after nearly two years away from the sport in which the performance and characterisitics of the cars changed dramatically. This is independent of any fanaticism or anti-fanaticism as may exist on this forum so it cannot be discredited in this, your usual, way. For once, I suggest you consider the facts of the matter and realize that JV is not as bad as your (still bitter) British press tells you. Surely he is not as fashionable as Jenson Button, and indeed he did direct some harsh words towards the then-plaboy, but that is no reason to dislike him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YHR 0 Report post Posted August 25, 2005 the independent PF1 panel has spoken and they have said that the JV-Massa battle is the most competitive of the season <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did this independant panel suggest that JV/FM to be one of the better pairings in F1 by any chance? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bajo39 0 Report post Posted August 25, 2005 Did this independant panel suggest that JV/FM to be one of the better pairings in F1 by any chance? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The independent panel has merely tabulated the results that most of us have agreed over the course of the season on the various teammate battles, with the exception of a few difficult decisions in tight battles, notable the one at Williams. Indeed the FM/JV battle is the tightest, most competitive, battle of the season despite the misleading babble on this forum from the British anti-JV mob. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted August 25, 2005 Did this independant panel suggest that JV/FM to be one of the better pairings in F1 by any chance? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No but you did amusingly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nojvnof1 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2005 "JV fans are just very passionate about their man, but someone really should tell them to take off their rose tinted glass's!" Button fans should be the last of a set of fans to tell another about rose-tinted glasses! "On the one hand JV had a contract and status in the team that DR was justified in wanting to change in time imo but given how he treated JB perhaps he did go about this the wrong way." How was he justified in trying to break a contract already agreed between Jacques and the BAR management? I'm not saying what Jacques was earning was justified, however a contract is a contract, no point crying over it once it's signed. The whole myth of the budget being effected by his salary is just that, a myth. "Furthermore he presumably resented the fact that DR replaced his friend CP and I can't help but think this influenced how he acted around DR." It effected both of them. JV felt bitterness towards DR as he felt CP got literally shafted out of the team just when he had brought in the team's most vital asset in Willis. As for DR, I read in a magazine a while ago that JV believes that DR's main problem was with Pollock, and the only way to really get to Pollock seeing as he was already out of the team, was to screw with Jacques, so guilty by association in effect. Others believe Jacques was the last of the 'old' Pollock regime and had his fate basically decided by Richards as soon as he came into office i.e. get rid of JV as soon as possible, start everything afresh in a way. "Murray, I dont know why you bother arguing with the JV fan(atics) - These guys are die hard fans and appear to most to be blind, drunk or both" Well I'm not drunk and definitely not blind, no need to get personal and ruin a perfectly, well mostly civil debate. So you'd rather we just sit back and accept the things said about JV instead of posting what we disagree with and why? That's what this forum is for. I actually quite like having such debates, especially when most of the posters here seem to actually know what they're talking about and willing to back themselves up. Although we may not agree, it's good to see such debates I feel. Senna, I don't believe Dan said the JV-FM combination was one of the better pairings in F1. I believe he said it was the most competitive in relation to the other 9 pairings in F1 at the moment based on P-F1's scoring system, which I believe is fair enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jenson_Rules 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2005 I am drunk, in fact, but the independent PF1 panel has spoken and they have said that the JV-Massa battle is the most competitive of the season despite the Canadian's atrocious start after nearly two years away from the sport in which the performance and characterisitics of the cars changed dramatically. This is independent of any fanaticism or anti-fanaticism as may exist on this forum so it cannot be discredited in this, your usual, way. For once, I suggest you consider the facts of the matter and realize that JV is not as bad as your (still bitter) British press tells you. Surely he is not as fashionable as Jenson Button, and indeed he did direct some harsh words towards the then-plaboy, but that is no reason to dislike him. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have NEVER said i disliked JV, only ever stated he is not very good anymore, which also shows that Massa is just average as he cant beat the declining canadian! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jenson_Rules 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2005 "JV fans are just very passionate about their man, but someone really should tell them to take off their rose tinted glass's!"Button fans should be the last of a set of fans to tell another about rose-tinted glasses! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here! I was merely joking mate! Dont take me seriously, I have also, like you, never said JB was faultless, he has plenty of room to improve and i have also never denied he is prone to mistakes at very crucial moments (such as quali in turkey!) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YHR 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2005 No but you did amusingly. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Indeed I did., and as the year goes on, I am even more convinced it is. Massa has now been elevated to a top team for next year, and JV's Pace is almost equal to Massa's Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nojvnof1 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2005 "Here! I was merely joking mate! Dont take me seriously," I know mate, just having abit of fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
