Jpm & Tm Incident. Video Clip.

[Monty 0]

Monty, address the three points in my last post and then I will take the time to read the above.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Up to you, I have already asked you not to bother, so

[funkejay 0]

I'll bite bajo,

A few points to consider:

1) TM did not expect JPM to slash across his nose and nor should he have.

[bajo39 0]

I'll bite bajo,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent.

You shall get a proper response later tonight or tomorrow. I have to run to the gym now for an appointment.

[funkejay 0]

Excellent.

You shall get a proper response later tonight or tomorrow. I have to run to the gym now for an appointment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Bajo, I'm very much looking forward to it. I think that this is the first time that you and I have not agreed 100% on something........

[cavallino 2]

I agree with FJ. if that was a racing incident between 2 competing drivers it would be a 50:50. there was no reason for TM to be pushing so hard into the corner and be so close to montoya unless he was trying to pull some kind of an overtaking maneouvre, and he had absolutely no justification for trying to unlap himself as he was much slower. after the corner the mclaren would have pulled ahead and he could have concentrated on getting a good lap in while NK has to worry about his mirrors. JPM cuts across suddenly but that is what you would expect from a driver trying to gain back the time he lost in overtaking a backmarker.

Has no one else here ever marshalled a race before? Am I the only one?

err think so. how do you go about becoming a track marshal ?

[funkejay 0]

how do you go about becoming a track marshal ?

[pumpdoc 2]

Has no one else here ever marshalled a race before? Am I the only one?

[funkejay 0]

Yes for 9 yrs at IMSA, SCCA, NASCAR and Micky Thompson stadium races  

The NASCAR was road races at Riverside not ovals.......................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

atta boy pumpdoc!!!!!

[bajo39 0]

It depends where you live. The best bet is to contact your local sports car or racing club. Its a great way to get involved and is an absolute hoot. Marshalls are generally volunteers, and although they don't get paid, most clubs will cook you breakfast and lunch, and supply you with most of what you need to ensure you have a great time.

If you want to marshall a major racing event you will have to be certified by the governing body. That usually entails attendance at a marshalling day-school or workshop (which are almost always put on for free) and marshalling at a specified number of sanctioned events.

I've only marshalled at one major racing event so far, which was a CASCAR event (the Canadian equivalent of NASCAR - but before anyone snickers - it was a street race - not an oval race - I absolutely loath NASCAR, but I'd never pass up the chance to marshall a major series street race), and I've marshalled quite a number of local racing events, including open wheel and what you folks call "saloon" cars (we call them sports cars).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Was that the Edmonton round, run at the airfield? I have been to see that race a couple times, pretty good.

[Monty 0]

I'll bite bajo,

This practice, as discussed by the drivers, was with respect to drivers dicing for position, and really has no application to lapped traffic. The reason it is inapplicable is that lapped drivers are required to give way to the leaders as they are being overtaken. They are not in the race for the lead, and as a result, it is generally accepted that they will get as far out of the way as necessary so as to not impede the leaders as they go by. It is TM's fault for even putting JPM in the position where he would have to come back on the racing line so close to the corner. TM's failure to slow down adequately enough to allow JPM sufficient time and space to get back on line and through the corner is a rookie mistake, fair enough, but it is still his mistake, and therefore, entirely his fault for creating the situation in the first place.

To expect JPM to stay on the inside (and off the racing line) as he enters the corner to accomodate a rookie driver who is being lapped, and who is not following protocol for lapped traffic, while racing to preserve his own second place in the race is entirely unfair to JPM. You may fault him for not anticipating that TM would so massively get it wrong, but in no way can you blame JPM for TM's failure to follow the most basic rule of motor racing - when you're getting lapped, you get the hell out of the way.....

Yes, JPM failed to react to the completed unexpected reaction of TM to being overtaken, which was to continue to drive hard into the corner, after forcing one of the leaders off the racing line and compromising his entry into one of the most critical corners on the track (as it sets up the entrance into the very fast and long back straight).

I respect your opinions very much bajo, but TM should never have been there to hit JPM, whether he cut across him or not. TM failed to give the leader adequate room to go by. It is not incumbent on the leaders to have to worry about what the lapped drivers are doing as they go by, it is expected that they will follow protocol and not do anything to impede them as they overtake.

As we saw in Turkey, departing from this protocol can have drastic consequences, which is why it is so critical to understand what is expected of you when you're touring around at the back of the field.

Has no one else here ever marshalled a race before? Am I the only one? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very well said Funkejay. Your point about TM trying to stay in the racing line was spot on, and I was of of the same view. TM has taken the drivers agreement out of its context.

[Monty 0]

Regulations on overtaking. (you will find it in page 22)

http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/179...ppendix_L_a.pdf

Before you start screaming about clause C, yes I have read about changing the directions that would hinder other drivers. Hoewever, I would like you to go to Clause A which clearly says that you need to need to move over for a faster car, and that didn't happen in this incident.

[monza gorilla 1]

Has no one else here ever marshalled a race before? Am I the only one? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but only at club level - autocross and rallycross. Mmmm. Love that mud.

[Oli 1]

I have at the British Lawnmower Racing Grand Prix. Even more mud!

[monza gorilla 1]

I have at the British Lawnmower Racing Grand Prix. Even more mud!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd love to see that. When is it on?

[bajo39 0]

Yes, JPM failed to react to the completed unexpected reaction of TM to being overtaken, which was to continue to drive hard into the corner, after forcing one of the leaders off the racing line and compromising his entry into one of the most critical corners on the track (as it sets up the entrance into the very fast and long back straight).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you have conceeded that Montoya made a mistake but let us be clear on the matter:

Whether or not Monteiro did what he was supposed to do - and notwithstanding the logical argument you presented above, I continue to believe that he operated under normal practice (but I have set aside this portion of the argument for now) - the Columbian recklessly slashed in front and immediately onto the brakes hard, causing the incident. There was no time for the Portugese to slow his car down let alone 'continue to drive hard into the corner' as you contend. The clip that Monty posted clearly shows that as soon as Montoya cut in front, Monteiro was on the brakes locking up his fronts (because he had virtually no downforce) and then his rears.