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Monty

Button's 100 Gp No Wins, No Fast Laps........

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wow!read mem...

u seem to be a great teacher.

I am not a great teacher but I am a wonderful lecturer, if you recognize the difference. Anyway, your humility and eye for talent bode well for your rapid development on this forum. I am newly impressed with your attitude each day!

I've only been gone for a few days, and I can hardly believe what's happened to our 'beloved' forum.

At the risk of dredging up a dying debate, there's a few posts above that I feel I must comment on.

The value of one's opinion and posts can not be assessed simply by establishing the length of time that they have watched F1 (or been a member of this forum). Although long term familiarity with the sport can often provide a better historical context and greater understanding of some issues, it is no guarantee that your own analysis is sound, or that the opinions of your less experienced counterparts are devoid of worth. Assess each argument and assertion on its merits (not by your opinion of its maker), and you will avoid descending into such ad hominems.

And the next time senior members of the forum are tempted to engage in such condescension, remember that it flatters you the least.

You are correct: each argument must be assessed on its individual merits. However, it is perfectly accurate to suggest that as a general trend, those with less F1 experience will have relatively less to contribute to a discussion on matters F1.

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Yes I said "you dont know what you're talking about" - that is my opinion! I'm sure you are emotionally strnog enough to take it? I said it because your comments, and the reasons given, are not valid. You said jensons in the 3rd best car - I wonder if senior f1 experts agree with you? I HIGHLY DOUBT IT. You also said he should be 3rd in wdc - what about JPM & Fisi? shouldnt they be 3rd & 4th? Please try and understand why your arguments appear as very weak and unjustified

what are u talking abut for, all i know jpm is 3rd!!!

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Enough already with the ad hominems, FJ! I know it's your favourite phrase, but its beginning to mess with my head! :wacko:

(Agree with you though, of course)

Hey Monza gorilla - I hear what you're saying, but ad hominem is the term that most accurately describes what is quickly becoming the only thing that passes for debate on this site. Would you rather I call it baseless personal attacks, or logically fallacious arguments, or childish bullying? Any of which would be correct, but none so much so as ad hominem. And believe me, no one wants to stop using the term more than I do, but the personal attacks just don't stop coming............

I would expect (particularly from senior members) that if one disagrees with another's position, that one would take the time to craft an intelligent response that identifies the errors of your opponents argument, and counter it with an antithesis that is based on fact and logical extension, not to descend into juvenile antics.

The other point of course is that if we make the forum an unwelcome place for new members by attacking their relative inexperience, not only do we limit its ultimate potential and appeal, but we risk lingering too long by the pool, transfixed by the glory of our own reflections. :blink:

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I am not a great teacher but I am a wonderful lecturer, if you recognize the difference. Anyway, your humility and eye for talent bode well for your rapid development on this forum. I am newly impressed with your attitude each day!

You are correct: each argument must be assessed on its individual merits. However, it is perfectly accurate to suggest that as a general trend, those with less F1 experience will have relatively less to contribute to a discussion on matters F1.

mahatma gandhi is my role model!!

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mahatma gandhi is my role model!!

I am sure he has taken you a long way but, in respect of your important development as an F1 master, you must refocus your worship on me.

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I am sure he has taken you a long way but, in respect of your important development as an F1 master, you must refocus your worship on me.

hahaha!!

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You are correct: each argument must be assessed on its individual merits. However, it is perfectly accurate to suggest that as a general trend, those with less F1 experience will have relatively less to contribute to a discussion on matters F1.

Absolutely not Dan - they may have less to contribute to an historical analysis or discussion, but not necessarily to matters of a more contemporaneous nature. Or, put another way, they may be at a disadvantage in placing such debates in an historical context, but not necessarily so. The point is, experience is simply one way to gain knowlege and information. Often, it can also lend itself to understanding (though not always and not necessarily), but there are certainly other ways to gain knowlege, information, and understanding (which are not always less valuable).

In the end, you can never go wrong by resisting the temptation to prejudge your oponent/counterpart.

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Hey Monza gorilla - I hear what you're saying, but ad hominem is the term that most accurately describes what is quickly becoming the only thing that passes for debate on this site. Would you rather I call it baseless personal attacks, or logically fallacious arguments, or childish bullying? Any of which would be correct, but none so much so as ad hominem. And believe me, no one wants to stop using the term more than I do, but the personal attacks just don't stop coming............

I would expect (particularly from senior members) that if one disagrees with another's position, that one would take the time to craft an intelligent response that identifies the errors of your opponents argument, and counter it with an antithesis that is based on fact and logical extension, not to descend into juvenile antics.

The other point of course is that if we make the forum an unwelcome place for new members by attacking their relative inexperience, not only do we limit its ultimate potential and appeal, but we risk lingering too long by the pool, transfixed by the glory of our own reflections. :blink:

I would hope that none of us are that narcissist.

I was only tweaking you a little out of devilment. Good to have you back.

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Absolutely not Dan - they may have less to contribute to an historical analysis or discussion, but not necessarily to matters of a more contemporaneous nature. Or, put another way, they may be at a disadvantage in placing such debates in an historical context, but not necessarily so.

Yes they may, as a student may occasionaly teach his professor, but it is unlikely...

In the end, you can never go wrong by resisting the temptation to prejudge your oponent/counterpart.

Agreed.

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I was only tweaking you a little out of devilment. Good to have you back.

Thanks Monza Gorilla - and I knew what you were up to, you scoundrel!!!! :clap3::clap3::clap3:

Yes they may, as a student may occasionaly teach his professor, but it is unlikely...

Agreed.

BTW Dan, great to see you back. I'd been away for a while myself (out of town), and was hoping you'd make a return!!!!

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I started watching f1 1998 but I still discuss f1 years before that cos I've read so much about it, so it would be unfair to discount someone's opinion solely because they are new to the sport

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I started watching f1 1998 but I still discuss f1 years before that cos I've read so much about it, so it would be unfair to discount someone's opinion solely because they are new to the sport

Yes, that is abundantly clear but I think you are confused as to the discussion at hand. I am merely suggesting that as a general trend, not as a rule but as a general trend, it is perfectly fair to say that those with less F1 experience will have relatively less to contribute to a debate on matters F1. That is all.

BTW Dan, great to see you back. I'd been away for a while myself (out of town), and was hoping you'd make a return!!!!

Thank you for the warm welcome FJ, the feeling is mutual.

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I am sure he has taken you a long way but, in respect of your important development as an F1 master, you must refocus your worship on me.

"if someone asks you if you are a god, you say YES!" :lol:

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someone answer my question: out of 100 appearances he has 96 starts. Excluding Monaco 2003, what other times has he not started?

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Spot on; maybe there has just been better drivers them him in the sport since then until now to name a few would be Michael Schumacher (obviously), Kimi Raikkonen, Juan Pablo Montoya and Fernando Alonso. When F1 is not so competitive then Jenson will be right up there. He still has a lot to learn and do.

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Jenson Is better than montoya!

Maybe if we look back yes we could say that but in these last few races I haven't been convinced.

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Maybe if we look back yes we could say that but in these last few races I haven't been convinced.

Montoya has had the benefit of the fastest car on the grid and thus last few races has been very competative, but he has done nothing special. Jenson however has now begun showing signs of real agression as shown in hockenheim, istanbul park and spa-francorchamps! Jenson I would personally say has improved the most of all drivers in the field due to his development as a racer!

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wow, congrats to your daughter senna! I wish her all the best and I hope she and your son-in-law have a great day!

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Do the 2 races BAR were abnned from count? if you are DQ'ed does it still count?

No, to count as a gp you have to take part in the race and so Button's 100th GP is the first race of next year.

I'm not so sure about DQ, either that doesn't count or / and his Monaco 2003 race does not count.

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