Car Vs. Driver

[mock 0]

Just to get an idea of the feel of members of the forum on this topic, I am posing the question -

What / Which factor decides the placement of the car on the grid and at the end of the race

- The car (total package including tyres, aerodynamics etc)

- The driver

Maybe the best way would be to run this as a percentage game with substantiating arguments for eg.

hypotheticallyl

car 50%, driver 50%

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Car, of course. Raikkonen in a sauber did nothing. In a mclaren, he fights for titles. The driver is part of the whole package, but if a car is the best, then even an average driver will win races in it

[narain fan 0]

Just to get an idea of the feel of members of the forum on this topic, I am posing the question -

What / Which factor decides the placement of the car on the grid and at the end of the race

- The car (total package including tyres, aerodynamics etc)

- The driver

Maybe the best way would be to run this as a percentage game with substantiating arguments for eg.

hypotheticallyl

car 50%, driver 50%

an f1 team is a package on the whole ,we cant single out a driver and the car, f1 is a team game and the car ,driver ... upto the last mechanic has to put a 100% for a good show. remember, in one of the races kimi retired due to a mechanical failure and the team later found out that one of the 1000 people in the team had made a mistake ....

[mock 0]

Car, of course. Raikkonen in a sauber did nothing. In a mclaren, he fights for titles. The driver is part of the whole package, but if a car is the best, then even an average driver will win races in it

Thanks, very well stated

[monza gorilla 1]

All the more reason to do away with as many driver aids as possible, to allow the driver to have more influence over any potential situation. But we should remember that a bad driver will still be a bad driver, even in the best car.

I think that the car (including tyres) now accounts for more than 50% of the total package.

[mock 0]

All the more reason to do away with as many driver aids as possible, to allow the driver to have more influence over any potential situation. But we should remember that a bad driver will still be a bad driver, even in the best car.

I think that the car (including tyres) now accounts for more than 50% of the total package.

I'd like to see how Massa does in the Ferrari before I take a call on the bad driver in the best car statement

[blueboots 0]

Now days I think the driver adds very little performance to a car. It's always the fastest car that wins and anyone who says otherwise is either an idiot or blind.

Ever since the late nineties it has been that way, and it has been getting worse every year.

The only thing a driver needs to do now is keep it on the track, the car will do the rest.

Hopefully next years regulations will give skilled drivers more of an impact than who simply has the best car.

[jjoseph 0]

We have discussed this topic so many time before. Its the whole pacakage which is behind the performance. We already saw how MS struggled this year. Nobody can deny that he is one of the top driver in the grid.

[hollywood2003 0]

A great car can easily cover for an average driver, look at Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve in a strong Williams package they both won the world championchip, once out of their respective cars and into another team they were also rans in the middle of the pack.

Cristiano DaMatta is another example, in a great car in the champ series he was champ and then went to the struggling toyota team and was ordinary to say the least.

Kimi was ordinary in the sauber and even in the mclaren when it was not a great car, now he is champ material as he was in the best car of the year (withstanding relaibility)

Alonso did nothing whilst at Minardi, yet now he is a world champ (renault car)

[Jem of the Shire 0]

But in some cases drivers make a huge difference - just look at schumacher and what he did with the 1996 ferrari (compare to what his team-mate achieved)

[Null 0]

Mock, you are an idiot, it is a combination of the 2. You stick a bad driver (sato) in a good car (BAR) and you're getting nowhere. Now compare that to his team mate in the latter half of the season.

[Wez 0]

We have discussed this topic so many time before. Its the whole pacakage which is behind the performance.

Yeah!

Now days I think the driver adds very little performance to a car. It's always the fastest car that wins and anyone who says otherwise is either an idiot or blind.

Please explain Alonso Vs Fisi, Button Vs Sato.... Rubbish theory!

Clearly there is only one blind idiot here (See above)!!!

[monza gorilla 1]

The McLaren was the fastest car, as I recall, but Alonso won the WDC. Sort of p**ses on the fastest car theory, I'd say.

[Null 0]

but the Mclarens were very very fragile which accounts for the fact that kimi was on for wins on about 3 occassions but didn't get them. That would have brought his overall win count higher than alonso's and kimi would have also won the WDC. Quick but reliable is better than Fast but fragile. THAT's why the fastest car didn't win. I expected you to have worked that one out

hang on, I think I'm arguing the same point as you

[monza gorilla 1]

Yep, I think we are!

[Senna 0]

Mock, you are an idiot

Truer words were never spoken.

[Max Mosley 2]

On the whole the car is more important than the driver these days.

[Senna 0]

On the whole the car is more important than the driver these days.

That is certainly true now although, in difficult conditions such as rain or variable weather, the like of which we have sadly not seen for quite a while, the excellent drivers shine whether they are in the best car or not. However, in normal conditions the car is all-important. To illustrate this fact: Eddie Irvine nearly became World Champion in 1999, yes I know; it

[Max Mosley 2]

Yes, all of which suggests the cars are too easy to drive now. Therefore get rid of the aids and we will perhaps get a sport more determined by driver skill again.

[Senna 0]

Yes, all of which suggests the cars are too easy to drive now. Therefore get rid of the aids and we will perhaps get a sport more determined by driver skill again.

Indeed and by making the cars slower they are going to become easier to drive

[pumpdoc 2]

Indeed and by making the cars slower they are going to become easier to drive

[mock 0]

Mock, you are an idiot, it is a combination of the 2. You stick a bad driver (sato) in a good car (BAR) and you're getting nowhere. Now compare that to his team mate in the latter half of the season.

You words are unwarranted Mr. Kaisersalsek. You take one example and call me an idiot. You stick a good driver in a bad car and you are getting nowhere either - it works both ways.

In fact you are a cretin. All I asked for was a percentage substantiated by some comments. I did not ask you for personal attacks - The thread is a justified thread for a serious discussion, not your biased, stupid, ignorant comments.

But then on second thoughts........................................isn't that asking for too much ?? ROTFFLMFAO

Truer words were never spoken.

Now truer words will be spoken....................

On second thoughts, you're just not worth it

[blueboots 0]

Yeah!

Please explain Alonso Vs Fisi, Button Vs Sato.... Rubbish theory!

Clearly there is only one blind idiot here (See above)!!!

But I really gotta read my posts so they make sense before I post hey?

What I meant to say was the best package usually wins, if you don't take into account crashes and inept drivers.

The driver only needs to be decent enough to drive the car quick, skilled enough to keep it on the track, and not tangle with other cars.

The majority of drivers who get to F1 show they have the skill to do this. There are the minority with no idea who for some unfortunate reason make it into an F1 car. Pretty much any decent driver could win a Championship with the best package.

My point was and is you don't need to have someone like Senna to drive your car in order to win. Teams simply need to make the best car (which the 05 Renault was) in order to win the championship.

Sorry to all those people who thought I was insulting them

[Wez 0]

To illustrate this fact: Eddie Irvine nearly became World Champion in 1999, yes I know; it

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I would have absolutely loved it if Irvine won the title - it would've been just like this year - winning the title purely from capitalising on mclaren mistakes. I wonder if renault fans like wez think that irvine deserved the 1999 title, considering how much they believe alonso deserves the 05 title. Both irv and alonso were consistently slower than mclaren but both picked up points when mclarens made mistakes