Senna 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 Aye, but it still was a short rivalry. I don Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AutoRacer5 0 Report post Posted January 16, 2006 ok ok. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nojvnof1 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2006 Hakkinen was Schumacher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2006 *coughs* bull$hit *coughs* I'm not surprised you'd come out and say that though. Mika Hakkinen was a great driver, Michael Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 17, 2006 Clearly nothing is clear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nojvnof1 0 Report post Posted January 18, 2006 Edit: I don Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 18, 2006 I wasn't going to go into one as it's already been done do death. Besides, I can't really badmouth Hill as I don't have too many bad things to say about him, I respect him alot. I will merely respond to what you have said though.However, I really think you were expecting too much of JV to come in and beat him in his rookie year. Hill had been racing in F1 since '92, with Williams in '93, knew the car/tracks etc. JV was continuously learning whilst having to fight for the title. Whilst he did do alot of testing, a huge amount, testing is one thing, racing is another. All testing did was get him used to the car on tracks such as Silverstone, Estoril etc. He had to learn most of the other tracks. Admittedly aided by far superior machinery, JV did a great job to take it to the last race. JV was a rookie and Hill was still respectable, yes he was 36, but he was still performing to a high level, had JV been at his peak, he'd have beaten Hill, I believe, but that is just my opinion. I just don't think you can compare their talents over their whole careers over a one year span. Sure, Hill did the best job in '96, a better job than JV, yet I don't believe JV is lesser a talent than Hill was. As you say, no need for an argument, but it's good to clear the air on such issues. Something to talk about in the offseason if nothing else. Jacques made his message clear from Melbourne quali' onwards. If Hill hadn't beaten JV after all the chances he had he should have hung his head (no pun) in shame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted January 18, 2006 Jacques made his message clear from Melbourne quali' onwards. If Hill hadn't beaten JV after all the chances he had he should have hung his head (no pun) in shame. Hmmm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 18, 2006 Hmmm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted January 18, 2006 As age expectancy increases amongst humans 37 is hardly old, even for a F1 driver...age is not a constraint but probably an advantage. Very odd points Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cristiano84 0 Report post Posted January 18, 2006 Senna you say only Damon,Jacques and Mika have been Schuey's real rivals..but what about Montoya and Raikkonen? They have been fighting for the title in 2003 against Michael and Kimi lost the title at the last race...Montoya also had some episodes of intense rivalry with Michael (starting from interlagos 2001) despite now he seems to have lost ground.And Fernando Alonso might find himself in an even more intense battle with Schuey for the title next year. So,at the moment you have to consider two more rivals for Schuey: Damon Hill,Jacques Villeneuve,Mika Hakkinen,Juan Pablo Montoya and Kimi Raikkonen...the most talented being Kimi and the least talented being Damon, no doubts about it, with Mika 2nd best and Juan 3rd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted January 18, 2006 Senna you say only Damon,Jacques and Mika have been Schuey's real rivals..but what about Montoya and Raikkonen? They have been fighting for the title in 2003 against Michael and Kimi lost the title at the last race...Montoya also had some episodes of intense rivalry with Michael (starting from interlagos 2001) despite now he seems to have lost ground.And Fernando Alonso might find himself in an even more intense battle with Schuey for the title next year.So,at the moment you have to consider two more rivals for Schuey: Damon Hill,Jacques Villeneuve,Mika Hakkinen,Juan Pablo Montoya and Kimi Raikkonen...the most talented being Kimi and the least talented being Damon, no doubts about it, with Mika 2nd best and Juan 3rd. At their best: Mika, Kimi, Damon, JV, Montoya. Edit: I would say that based on average performance at their peak, although it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wez 0 Report post Posted January 19, 2006 In my unbiased opinion I would honestly say that post 1993, Mika & Alonso have been the two toughest challengers Schumacher has come up against. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted January 19, 2006 Post 1993 Mika Hakkinen is the only driver that has really pushed Schumacher. I say that as a devout Damon Hill fan. Alonso?? Yeah right! Maybe in 2006, but as yet Alonso and schumacher have not fought it out over a season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennye 0 Report post Posted January 19, 2006 Mika is right. Furthermore, schumi should give a chance to others who are hungry for success in F1. Rossi might be a rising sun . It might be up to M$ to decide if he is going to retire or not, but it is also up to the teams to offer the drivers contracts or not. The teams hire drivers and if they feel he is done, then they can just not offer him a seat. Offer it to the younger drivers they feel are the future of the teams. As far as Mika's comments, it's not like M$ is giving up, sounds like he still wants to race, but if he cannot do so with at same level with a good car and team he does not see a reason to continue driving after this season. Totally understandable for someone with his regiment for training, preparation and discipline. Other than # of polls what else does he have? Indeed if I had his wife I'd crawl into a bottle also............ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senna 0 Report post Posted January 19, 2006 Post 1993 Mika Hakkinen is the only driver that has really pushed Schumacher. I say that as a devout Damon Hill fan. Alonso?? Yeah right! Maybe in 2006, but as yet Alonso and schumacher have not fought it out over a season. What you perhaps meant to say is that Michael was a far greater talent than Damon. To say Damon didn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cristiano84 0 Report post Posted January 19, 2006 I don Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dribbler 6 Report post Posted January 19, 2006 Very odd points Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted January 19, 2006 Well said that man. Both of your arguments have merit. Apart from the reliability issues, the Arrows was on the verge of being a very good car. More development would have confirmed that. Either that or Damon was a particularly good driver. I think it was a bit of both. Jacques was (is?) also a very good driver, but it is difficult to compare them on the strength of a single season as team mates, I feel. My own , subjective, opinion is that Damon would be quicker more often than not; a more calculating driver as opposed to Jacques more gung ho style. I look forward to your continuing debate, gentlemen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted January 20, 2006 Damon's win in Belgium, whilst he was fortunate that MS crashed, he would've finished 2nd on merit, having outqualified MS's ferrari and overtaken both mclarens at the start. 1 of his best ever performances. No-one can take away his Hungary 97 drive. Set-up, whatever, he was on it that day and was extreeeeemely unlucky not to win Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wez 0 Report post Posted January 20, 2006 Post 1993 Mika Hakkinen is the only driver that has really pushed Schumacher. I say that as a devout Damon Hill fan. Alonso?? Yeah right! Maybe in 2006, but as yet Alonso and schumacher have not fought it out over a season. Schumacher looked quite pushed to me, when he couldn't pass Alonso with a car 2 seconds a lap quicker at San Marino, And when Alonso overtook him twice in sublime fashion in Japan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted January 20, 2006 Schumacher looked quite pushed to me, when he couldn't pass Alonso with a car 2 seconds a lap quicker at San Marino, And when Alonso overtook him twice in sublime fashion in Japan. In japan alonso had a signigicant car advantage. That move on 130R was impressive but also very risky!! As for imola, MS didnt look pushed at all, alonso held his nerve but at imola there are no great overtaking points so MS couldnt get through. If you're going to mention alonso in all this then we should also mention DC, Ralf, Rubens, JPM, Alesi - these drivers have all fought and beat MS in races. What we're talking about is MS's title rivals over the years Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michelfx 0 Report post Posted January 20, 2006 Schumacher looked quite pushed to me, when he couldn't pass Alonso with a car 2 seconds a lap quicker at San Marino, And when Alonso overtook him twice in sublime fashion in Japan. You can't compare the 2 cars, the ferrari certainly wasn't as quick for various reasons and Yes Alonso was a lot faster but MS won his titles mainly because the scuderia was untouchable at the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted January 20, 2006 MS won his titles mainly because the scuderia was untouchable at the time. thats the most ridiculous thing you've ever typed on here. I beg you to take it back. Im no MS fan but MS certainly didnt win his 94,95,97,00,03 titles due to having dominant machinery Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wez 0 Report post Posted January 20, 2006 You can't compare the 2 cars, the ferrari certainly wasn't as quick for various reasons and Yes Alonso was a lot faster but MS won his titles mainly because the scuderia was untouchable at the time. It is difficult to rate an actual challenger because just as Renault & Mclaren were a lot quicker than the Red team in 2005, it was the oposite way round for several of MS's championship winning seasons (2001, 2002, 2004). Particularly in 2004 where the Red Bulls monkey would have won the championship in that Ferrari blindfolded and using one hand! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
