monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted April 27, 2006 Good post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 TG being Tiago? In that case it would be TM...anyway, I'll go with the assumption you meant Tiago. I'm new to this forum but hardly new to F1. You should know that I'm rarely wrong and I'm very careful about what I post. That being said, something bugged me about this whole Narain issue and my post here. I started thinking I had posted in error. So I dug up some stats to see if that was the case. Here's what I found:Fastest laps- Narain: 9 Tiago: 10 Points haul- Narain: 5 Tiago: 7 Finishing position- Both finished ahead of each other 6 times (excluding races where one or the other DNF'd) There are many other stats to pull up, but I feel these three give a good enough indication of overall speed/racecraft. Judging by this, Narain and Tiago are pretty closely matched. I was "ahem" in error with my post about Tiago roundly beating Narain. I chalk it up to my not paying close enough attention to the soft-end of the grid. Good for you, abbas, for staying the course with your views. True enough about the paying lots of cash bit and what I said about paying drivers still stands. Being that both drivers were about equal, but Tiago's cash-flow came through and Narain's did not, I would also have dumped Narain. Just harsh reality. Another harsh reality is that Tiago and Narain both failed to impress anybody with their racecraft. That is one possible reason why so many intelligent posters here just aren't supporting either one of them. You impress, you get support; you don't impress, you become a test-driver. Many star drivers impressed in bad cars: Senna/Toleman, Webber/Jaguar, Alonso/Minardi...the list goes on....Narain and Tiago are not on that list. Good post, and it shows what I gave up on trying to convince people long ago - if you want to make a blanket statement like TM thrashed NK, you have to be ale to justify it, just repeating it in every post doesnt make it true. TM was much worse in the first part of the season, but got ahead later. Add to that the fact that NK had more reliability issues, and a very different picture emerges. As TM gets thrashed by his mediocre but more deserving teammate this year, it will become clearer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 Good post, and it shows what I gave up on trying to convince people long ago - if you want to make a blanket statement like TM thrashed NK, you have to be ale to justify it, just repeating it in every post doesnt make it true. TM was much worse in the first part of the season, but got ahead later. Add to that the fact that NK had more reliability issues, and a very different picture emerges. As TM gets thrashed by his mediocre but more deserving teammate this year, it will become clearer. Glad that I could afford you the opportunity to make a point. I'm extremely annoyed with myself, however, for my inaccuracy. Rest assured that any future posts of mine will be back to my usual standard of perfection... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 TG being Tiago? In that case it would be TM...anyway, I'll go with the assumption you meant Tiago. I'm new to this forum but hardly new to F1. You should know that I'm rarely wrong and I'm very careful about what I post. That being said, something bugged me about this whole Narain issue and my post here. I started thinking I had posted in error. So I dug up some stats to see if that was the case. Here's what I found:Fastest laps- Narain: 9 Tiago: 10 Points haul- Narain: 5 Tiago: 7 Finishing position- Both finished ahead of each other 6 times (excluding races where one or the other DNF'd) There are many other stats to pull up, but I feel these three give a good enough indication of overall speed/racecraft. Judging by this, Narain and Tiago are pretty closely matched. I was "ahem" in error with my post about Tiago roundly beating Narain. I chalk it up to my not paying close enough attention to the soft-end of the grid. Good for you, abbas, for staying the course with your views. True enough about the paying lots of cash bit and what I said about paying drivers still stands. Being that both drivers were about equal, but Tiago's cash-flow came through and Narain's did not, I would also have dumped Narain. Just harsh reality. Another harsh reality is that Tiago and Narain both failed to impress anybody with their racecraft. That is one possible reason why so many intelligent posters here just aren't supporting either one of them. You impress, you get support; you don't impress, you become a test-driver. Many star drivers impressed in bad cars: Senna/Toleman, Webber/Jaguar, Alonso/Minardi...the list goes on....Narain and Tiago are not on that list. hey thanx for correcting me...its TM.... Again thanx for acknowledging my views..as one of the members said narain had some relaiblity issues....not 2 or three, it kept on repeating. he rarely had a perfect car. but am not saying that midland were being impartial to him.. its like fisis situation last year. tm didnt suffer reliability issues...may be its because he was light on the car, not pushing it too much, narain as we all know was pushing it like mad only being inspired my ms(he says ms is his idol!)....one of the reason why i blindy support narain is because hes from my country and the second reason is because ive been observing his progress more than most of the memebers of the forum, so naturally when some one says something thats not so true about him i get irritated....he did impress at williams during testing for the third driver role, but he lost it to alex because he wasnt experienced, there are chances of him becoming the third driver next year or a race driver in midland itself or perhaps in one of the redbull teams....but anyways...he deserves a third driver role as i still belive hes hugely talented..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 Autumnpuma and Ctrl300, not worth it mates, i advise to to stop wasting time answering these ridiculous accusations, you're much to clever to be involved in these racist debates.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goferrarigo 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 ok off topic question: what is the differnece between a third driver and a test driver? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narain fan 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 TG being Tiago? In that case it would be TM...anyway, I'll go with the assumption you meant Tiago. I'm new to this forum but hardly new to F1. You should know that I'm rarely wrong and I'm very careful about what I post. That being said, something bugged me about this whole Narain issue and my post here. I started thinking I had posted in error. So I dug up some stats to see if that was the case. Here's what I found:Fastest laps- Narain: 9 Tiago: 10 Points haul- Narain: 5 Tiago: 7 Finishing position- Both finished ahead of each other 6 times (excluding races where one or the other DNF'd) quali NK-10 TIAGO-9 JUST SO THAT U KNOW Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 ok off topic question:what is the differnece between a third driver and a test driver? a 3rd driver (eg Davidson) will be used at race weekends in practise sessions to help the team with set-up, and will also carry out testing duties, and will also be a reserve driver in case one of the race drivers gets injured. A test driver (eg Karthikeyan) will just carry out testing duties Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goferrarigo 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 so in williams if something happens to one of the drivers who comes in wurz or NK? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 so in williams if something happens to one of the drivers who comes in wurz or NK? it depends upon the situation, naturally its wurz! but....if williams is launchin a new package, say with new chassis, and wurz is too tall to fit in, its going to be nk! ....i know many of the guys in the forum would hate it, but we indians will love it! Autumnpuma and Ctrl300,not worth it mates, i advise to to stop wasting time answering these ridiculous accusations, you're much to clever to be involved in these racist debates.... wonder what you meant....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goferrarigo 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 yup esp the press in banglore and amchi mumbai Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 it depends upon the situation, naturally its wurz! but....if williams is launchin a new package, say with new chassis, and wurz is too tall to fit in, its going to be nk! ....i know many of the guys in the forum would hate it, but we indians will love it! wonder what you meant....... Err no, its Wurz period. NK isn't allowed near the car on race weekends even though he is sometimes allowed to be at the track for heaven knows what. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 well maybe he is improving his technical knowledge in F1, i think he reads the data collected from the 3 drivers laps and makes some suggestions probably..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 Truth is, whether his fans like it or not, Narain was hired by williams for the sponsorship money he brings. The fact he does a bit of testing is just a bonus! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goferrarigo 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 he was faster than rosberg and webber in winter testing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 he was faster than rosberg and webber in winter testing thats testing. test drivers are often faster than race drivers in test sessions, the drivers are all testing different parts, with different tyres and fuel loads and for different reasons. Honda were faster than nearly everyone in testing, but look at them now Do u think narain is a better prospect than webber and rosberg? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goferrarigo 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 i'm not saying he is a better prospect than them all i'm saying is that he is not all that bad and williams did not jsut hire him for sponsership money. he is going to all the testing in asia and he allways pushes the car to its max thus ends up crashing his jorden Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 he was faster than rosberg and webber in winter testing Nop. Irrelevent. Testing isn't a who can set a fastest lap competition. Williams did hire him just for the sponsorship unfortunately. He's made a royal mess of his career with his move for this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ctrl300 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 Nop. Irrelevent. Testing isn't a who can set a fastest lap competition. Williams did hire him just for the sponsorship unfortunately. He's made a royal mess of his career with his move for this year. Finally we can agree on something. Took time... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goferrarigo 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 if he did not come to testing which other options did he have to save his carrer? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 if he did not come to testing which other options did he have to save his carrer? A1, GP2, in A1 he could have arranged enough cash to run a decent team and in GP2 with his sponsorship he could have made it to a good team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goferrarigo 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 hmm i guess ..... but he wanted to stay in f1 and thus did not even consider those options Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pumpdoc 2 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 he was faster than rosberg and webber in winter testing Winter testing as the Honda fans should know doesn't mean squat diddly.................. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 hmm i guess .....but he wanted to stay in f1 and thus did not even consider those options Being third driver for Williams would have been an excellent idea, since he would be driving a lot and would get to drive on Fridays at race weekend. As a fourth driver, he gets occasional runs while Wurz does all the important testing, and he doesn't get to drive on GP weekends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted April 28, 2006 hmm i guess .....but he wanted to stay in f1 and thus did not even consider those options he should've taken the hint that F1 wasnt for him when his team-mate Monteiro was retained, and he wasn't Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
