Who's The Better Driver?

[Ctrl300 0]

SIDEPOD - i actually voted for them as even drivers but after reading what youve just put i wholly agree with it & think yeah maybe MW does have a slight edge

last year JB showed some serious guts & determination - especially in the race where he was holding onto his helmet for most of it - he went way up in my estimation that day - but this year he just seems to be lacking a little bit of that focus or drive - again thats only my humble girlie opinion - and no im not saying it cos im a JB hater, not at all

in th Jaguar MW did a brilliant job with what he was given - id love to see him get a break now so we can see if he really is a good driver or just an OK one

Ok, I admit that I often produce biased junk, but this was just pathetic.

[MSR 0]

I'm just curious what the JB fans reaction will be when Webber beats him to a win!!!!

Can't imagine Jenson's reaction will be to good either after all the money he spent to stay out of a Williams.

I don't think it was so much a case that JB didn't want to drive a Williams I think he was scared of being humiliated by Webber.

Yes JB is very smooth and quick and everything else when the car is working right but he just can't grab it by the scruff of the neck and manhandle it round when it isn't quite right.

With the speed and lack of downforce they have now the setup is unlikely to be just perfect very often so he needs to learn to be more agressive if he is ever to get a win!!!

[irishfemalefan 0]

Ok, I admit that I often produce biased junk, but this was just pathetic.

care to explain why???????????

im a Schumacher fan through & through & not really a fan or hater of either of the 2 drivers mentioned - i was giving my opinion of why i think MW is a better driver all round and not just on the track

im dying to hear what you found so pathetic???

[PeakRPM 0]

True.

If Webber is such hot-property why is he out of contract for 07?

You idiot.

So currently off contract we have :

Michael Schumacher

Juan Pablo Montoya

Jacques Villeneuve ?

Kimi Rakkinen

Webber stands in pretty good company as "off contract". And you think his not going to be in either a Williams (9.99% chance he will) or a top 5 team, your crazy.

[funkejay 0]

Who do you truly believe to be the better driver out of Jenson or Mark. Please don't take into account the fact Webber has had crapper machinery, Button has had his fair share of midfield cars, his only cars that were not midfield were the Williams in 00, the BAR in 04 and his current Honda RA106.

Anyway who do you think is the better driver and who would come out tops in a straight fight with equal machinery and take into account racecraft and skill above anything else.

Also how can anyone say Mark Webber is better than JB! There is nothing that suggests that!

Ben, you made a great effort in your first post to make it sound like you wanted an objective comparison of these two drivers, but then you completely went off the end and showed your personal bias in your last post!!! If you want to actually be objective about these things (and have these polls taken seriously), and not just pretend to be objective (and not reduce your poll to nothing more than a rally for JB fans), then you have to make a true effort to rationally consider the arguments and facts.

Otherwise, people won't waste their time on these polls.

To be honest, as far as the poll itself is concerned, I think they're both over-rated and rather average drivers. And if all that can be said of either is that they're only better than the other one, then that's damning with tremendously faint praise.

[Ctrl300 0]

yeah but MS & fA were on 2 stops & Button was on 3 - without the pit stop mess up i still dont think he could have had an extra pit stop from the leaders & still been up there

You idiot.

So currently off contract we have :

Michael Schumacher

Juan Pablo Montoya

Jacques Villeneuve ?

Kimi Rakkinen

Webber stands in pretty good company as "off contract". And you think his not going to be in either a Williams (9.99% chance he will) or a top 5 team, your crazy.

Kimi and Michael are daily begged by various teams to drive.

Villeneuve is struggeling to get a BMW extention.

JPM is not deciding what to do until he knows if there is going to be a opening at McLaren in 07.

Mark Webber has expressed to Williams that he would love to continue for 07 and beyond but ha not had ann offer yet.

You obviously have no clue sod off.

[PeakRPM 0]

The comment was "why is he off contract". - with reference to hot property.

There was no mention of "teams who want them to drive for them, or teams they want too drive for".

Try and read the post, and then comment champ....opppss chump.

Or are you going to debate but, but, but, but, but its Mark Webber, so he can't be asured of a drive.....YOU TOOL!

[irishfemalefan 0]

Kimi and Michael are daily begged by various teams to drive.

Villeneuve is struggeling to get a BMW extention.

JPM is not deciding what to do until he knows if there is going to be a opening at McLaren in 07.

Mark Webber has expressed to Williams that he would love to continue for 07 and beyond but ha not had ann offer yet.

You obviously have no clue sod off.

on forums (like this) unless you are talking about specifics like track positions or technical facts the rest of information is usually opinion - an opinion is a personal thing & therefore everyone is & should be entitled to their own - how you can think that your opinion is better or less pathetic than anyone elses is down right ignorance -

its not your place to tell anyone they have no clue or to sod off - opinions are a personal view - they dont all have to match with your narrow minded one

[SIDEPOD 0]

Well said irishfemalefan...

[funkejay 0]

Kimi and Michael are daily begged by various teams to drive.

Villeneuve is struggeling to get a BMW extention.

JPM is not deciding what to do until he knows if there is going to be a opening at McLaren in 07.

Mark Webber has expressed to Williams that he would love to continue for 07 and beyond but ha not had ann offer yet.

You obviously have no clue sod off.

on forums (like this) unless you are talking about specifics like track positions or technical facts the rest of information is usually opinion - an opinion is a personal thing & therefore everyone is & should be entitled to their own - how you can think that your opinion is better or less pathetic than anyone elses is down right ignorance -

its not your place to tell anyone they have no clue or to sod off - opinions are a personal view - they dont all have to match with your narrow minded one

While I agree with you somewhat Irish, in that Ctrl300 does have a tendancy to run his own mouth off (which to his credit he is good enough to admit), he has a point about opinions not being supported by facts. You said it yourself, if you're talking about facts (which Ctrl300 was) that trumps mere opinion (which is what PeakRPM was offering).

Simply because Webbo is looking for a ride at the same time as JPM, Kimi, and Michael's contracts are yet to be confirmed, means very little indeed. It says nothing about Webbo's skill, talent, or desireability to other teams. To put it another way, it is an example of a non sequitor, which means that logically, his conclusion simply does not follow from the facts, as he (or she) suggests it does.

[irishfemalefan 0]

While I agree with you somewhat Irish, in that Ctrl300 does have a tendancy to run his own mouth off (which to his credit he is good enough to admit), he has a point about opinions not being supported by facts. You said it yourself, if you're talking about facts (which Ctrl300 was) that trumps mere opinion (which is what PeakRPM was offering).

thanks that may go someway to explain his response to PeakRPM - but my original post, which was referred to as pathetic, was based on opinion and fact that as an all round team player MW seems to ahve the upper hand on JB -

I honestly couldnt care if anybody thinks my wee humble opinions are rubbish or pathetic (even i do sometimes) but i think its down right ignorance & bad manners to just dismiss someones own personal opinion without giving any sort of reason for doing so - at least if you give me a reason i can defend my opinion & view

[UrKo 0]

Jenson Button is never out of contract, infact two major teams wanted his services 2 years in a row, and had a fight for him pretty much! He is now singed up for 5 years andim sure he will not have a problem getting a contract after that!

So you're telling me that JB is most wanted driver in F1?????

You got to be kidding

[funkejay 0]

thanks that may go someway to explain his response to PeakRPM - but my original post, which was referred to as pathetic, was based on opinion and fact that as an all round team player MW seems to ahve the upper hand on JB -

I honestly couldnt care if anybody thinks my wee humble opinions are rubbish or pathetic (even i do sometimes) but i think its down right ignorance & bad manners to just dismiss someones own personal opinion without giving any sort of reason for doing so - at least if you give me a reason i can defend my opinion & view

Quite right - I saw his response to that post and thought much the same, but that didn't seem to be what you were referring to above.

As for JB and MW, there are so many intangibles to consider in assessing their relative speed, talent, worth, etc.... that no one can (in my equally humble opinion) say definitively that either has the upper hand - and that anyone's views in that regard must then be a product of opinion, more than anything else. Insofar as that is true, you are as entitled to your opinion as anyone else, and attacking someone for merely holding such an opinion is nothing more than an ad hominem.

Jenson Button is never out of contract, infact two major teams wanted his services 2 years in a row, and had a fight for him pretty much! He is now singed up for 5 years andim sure he will not have a problem getting a contract after that!

Ben, unless JB manages to really turn his career around and start scoring some wins soon, I doubt that Honda will see out the rest of his five year deal (given that it was premised on his promised ability to deliver those as yet ellusive wins). Make no mistake, Honda are in F1 to win, not place, and if JB isn't the horse that will take them to the winner's circle, they will not hesitate to find another that will. I give him this year and next, and if he has not managed to make it happen by then, Honda will have concluded that he never will.

If that is the case, and he does not see out his Honda contract, I think poor old JB will find himself wandering around the F1 paddock with his hat out, searching desperately for a ride.

[MontoyaFan-HatesJenson 0]

I'm back!

And Webber. Reason? I hate JB! :-P

No, seriously - when Webber gets a car that's not a freakin Williams, you're gonna see his real ability.

JB? Good car this year...still the same bad driver.

[irishfemalefan 0]

Quite right - I saw his response to that post and thought much the same, but that didn't seem to be what you were referring to above.

ok sorry if theres any confusion - it was the response to this comment & opinion i was referring to

Ok, I admit that I often produce biased junk, but this was just pathetic.

like i previously said - care to explain why???????????

im a Schumacher fan through & through & not really a fan or hater of either of the 2 drivers mentioned - i was giving my opinion of why i think MW is a better driver all round and not just on the track

im dying to hear what you found so pathetic???

still waiting on a response on this one

[funkejay 0]

gotcha irish!!!!

[Autumnpuma 0]

Though you cannot dispute a fact, opinions are not all created equal . Some opinions are quite correct (this is not an endorsement of any opinions on this thread, however ) while others are nothing but bile.

I voted for Button but it was a hard decision. For me it came down to asking myself 'who will win a GP first?' That would be Button. In racecraft they are about equal. Where Button lacks craft is in overtaking and defending his position. Where Webber lacks craft is in outright speed and pace for a whole GP. If we could melt both of 'em down and put them into a new mold, we'd have MS!

Anyway, there's my opinion for ya.

[Jenson_Rules 0]

After reading the latest posts im really trying here not to get annoyed at your ignorance!

Ok, I admit that I often produce biased junk, but this was just pathetic.

Indeed it was ctrl300. Im beginning to like you anyway, despite your clear bias you are not ignorant in the fact you can see through your bias and admit the better driver is indeed Jenson. Reason for this, he can storm to 2nd place one handed with his helmet strangling him, which I have seen no other driver do and I am pretty positive most others would have crashed. That shows bloody determination and he has shown on many occasions how hungry he really is.

I'm just curious what the JB fans reaction will be when Webber beats him to a win!!!!

Can't imagine Jenson's reaction will be to good either after all the money he spent to stay out of a Williams.

I don't think it was so much a case that JB didn't want to drive a Williams I think he was scared of being humiliated by Webber.

Yes JB is very smooth and quick and everything else when the car is working right but he just can't grab it by the scruff of the neck and manhandle it round when it isn't quite right.

With the speed and lack of downforce they have now the setup is unlikely to be just perfect very often so he needs to learn to be more agressive if he is ever to get a win!!!

I have never read such Sh#t in my life. You clearly are a moron, Button being humiliated by Mark Webber, what utter bollocks. You talk out of your arse there. Where is your reasoning behind this absolute rubbish, Button has quoted himself saying 'who wants a teamate thats 1 sec slower than him' and that quote was arguably aimed at Mark Webber! I certainly feel in a straight fight Button would thrash Webber. Reasons, because Button can pull it out when he needs it. Look at his Pole in Australia, half a sec quicker on a similar fuel load in a car that had looked pretty crap that weekend. He pulls it out when he needs iy and when he sees the opportunity he grabs it firmly with boh hands. Once he seens the opportunity to win he will and he will push so hard. Look at Monaco 04, look at hockenheim 04. I believe he would have won in Turkey last year had he not made that silly rookie error in Turn 8 duriong quali ashe was racing so aggressively and beautifully it made me soo ****ing happy.

So you're telling me that JB is most wanted driver in F1?????

You got to be kidding

No I am not, The most wanted drivers are Alonso Kimi and Schumacher. Button would be next though for sure!

Though you cannot dispute a fact, opinions are not all created equal . Some opinions are quite correct (this is not an endorsement of any opinions on this thread, however ) while others are nothing but bile.

I voted for Button but it was a hard decision. For me it came down to asking myself 'who will win a GP first?' That would be Button. In racecraft they are about equal. Where Button lacks craft is in overtaking and defending his position. Where Webber lacks craft is in outright speed and pace for a whole GP. If we could melt both of 'em down and put them into a new mold, we'd have MS!

Anyway, there's my opinion for ya.

Button lacks in overtaking? Where did you get that idea from. He is easily one of the best in the sport, infact the only one better is probably Montoya. Button is such a clean overtaker that he just makes it look so easy, Webber has an incredible weak defending ability and his overtaking attempts are sloppy and pretty much never happen. I admit Button is weak at defending and that is probably his weakest area however he has greatly improved that now.

Ands how Webber is winnign this poll is absolutely beyond me. The reasons I have given prove imo that Button is the better racer!

[irishfemalefan 0]

[quote name='Jenson_Rules!!!' post='114185' date='May 1 2006, 09:28 PM'][b]After reading the latest posts im really trying here not to get annoyed at your ignorance![/b]

[i]Ok, I admit that I often produce biased junk, but this was just pathetic.[/i]


Indeed it was ctrl300.[/quote]


your not the only one - what gives you the right to criticise someone elese personal opinion - and yes that it is all mine was - MY opinion - just because it isnt the same as yours does not make mine or yours any more correct or wrong - they are BOTH personal opinions - anytime anyone disagrees with you about Button you throw a wobbler - why can you not accept that not everyone shares your views

[aussief1 4]

Webber is leading the poll, surprise, surprise

[Kopite Girl 0]

Jenson as far as driving. Mark as far as being diplomatic.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Button lacks in overtaking? Where did you get that idea from. He is easily one of the best in the sport, infact the only one better is probably Montoya. Button is such a clean overtaker that he just makes it look so easy, Webber has an incredible weak defending ability and his overtaking attempts are sloppy and pretty much never happen. I admit Button is weak at defending and that is probably his weakest area however he has greatly improved that now.

Ok, my impression of Button's overtaking isn't complete because we don't always see him on-track. Webber is known for having a wide car, so your comments regarding his defending ability are flat wrong. Also, any comparison to Montoya's overtaking ability is very shaky. Montoya is the Overtaker. Now if we look at the past few races, qualification and result, an interesting picture emerges:

2006:

Australia:

Button qualified:1 finished race:10

Webber q:7 finished:dnf

Malaysia:

Button q:2 finished:3

Webber q:5 finished:dnf

Bahrain:

Button q:3 finished:4

Webber q:7 finished:6

2005:

China:

Button q:4 finished:8

Webber q:10 finished:7

Japan:

Button q:2 finished:5

Webber q:7 finished:4

Brazil:

Button q: 4 finished:7

Webber q:14 finished:dnf

Belgium:

Button q:9 finished:3

Webber q:10 finished:4

I could go on, but after looking at how often Webber has improved his qualifying position compared to Button losing his, I may have voted wrong...I'd like to change my mind to Webber...

[AutoRacer5 0]

Webber's gotten the most votes so far...

[bundyrum3 0]

mw is the more complete driver than jb .i didnt see jb put a car like minardi in the points at anytime of his career . and wat half of the jb fans know about formula 1 you can put on the back of a postage stamp with a chisel

[Jenson_Rules 0]

but you are taking machinery into account. one must not forget the 05 williams was by far better than the BAR yet JB finished ahead in the final standings despite being disqualified from 2 races and having his points taken away in the San Marino GP of 05. One must also forget the fact the BAR was a very good qualifier very much like the current RA106 but it suffered terrible understeer and had various pace issues that whomever was driving it fell back. Thos results mean nothing. As I said not taking into account machinery, Button is the better of the two.

Irishfemalefans. Im all for people having their own opinions and i respect those opinions when they are justified but when someone so loosely changes their mind like that it angers me as no one can be persuaded that quickly and it destroys credibility. Of course you can believe that Webber is better, since most of you so blindly do but please try to understand my reasoning why he is far worse and as of yet I have seen no convincing evidence that suggests Webber is better.

mw is the more complete driver than jb .i didnt see jb put a car like minardi in the points at anytime of his career . and wat half of the jb fans know about formula 1 you can put on the back of a postage stamp with a chisel

So your sayong we JB fans just watch it to see JB get ****ed about by his team every race? for your information I know quite alot about the sport and probably much more than many others of my age and I find that comment highly insulting. I find it disgusting infact how you feel you can stereotpe all fans of JB's.