A Champion's Worth

[Autumnpuma 0]

Many drivers 'luck' into their first championship. A superior car or a lack of competition or just plain abundance of good luck get them their first crown.

The worth of a Champion is in winning the second title. It is this second title that proves they've learned how to become a champion. It proves they've taken the lessons learned during thier first title fight and used them to win a second. Just as winning a race tells you how to win, so too does winning a championship.

Of the current drivers, only Fernando Alonso, Michael Schumacher and Jacques Villenueve have won a championship. Only one of those have done it more than once.

Right now we are witnessing Fernando fight for his second crown with a formidable Michael. This will prove his worth, one way or the other. Indeed, Jacques still has something to prove. Can both he and Fernando become credible champions, taking two crowns and dispelling talk of 'unearned' glory?

Michael's worth is not in doubt. After winning seven, he knows how to win championships and, when behind the wheel, should never be counted out. Fernando, coming off a recent championship win and being in the same good car has a chance at repeating last year's result; if he can hold off a charging Schumacher. There is only one way to beat Michael and that is to play his game, only better. Fernando proved in Spain that he could, indeed, play that game. Now we wait and see if he can do it race after race.

Consider this startling thought: If Michael is the benchmark on which we judge future champions, then Fernando beating Michael will teach the spainiard a few valuable lessons in beating the best. All other drivers challenging for the crown will now have to beat a man that beat Michael. The bar will have been raised.

Now to Jacques. A champion to be sure, but does he remember how to do it? I don't believe he does. I believe too much time has passed since his last race win, let alone championship. Jacques will need to start over. He is in the same boat as a number of other drivers still waiting to figure out how to win. Once he gets a win, then, like a tsunami, he will remember how to become a champion. Sadly, I do not think a race win is in the cards for Jacques.

What of the rest? Kimi and Juan Pablo are the most likely candidates to become champion. Juan Pablo has an edge because he has won championships before and knows how it's done. From this point it's all a guessing game, however, because Button could also surge forward and take a championship. For Button, like Jacques, one race win will start a flood of others and, soon, a championship.

For now, though, settle back and place your bets on the blue or the red.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I strongly disagree that you have to win 2 titles to become 'credible'. There are many champions who only won it once but had to fight hard for it, JV for example. JV doesnt have anything to prove, he's been to the top of the mountain and beat Schumacher. Alonso had a massive amount of good fortune last year, mainly thanks to the reliability of his renault and the lack of reliabilty on kimi's mercedes. Alonso is showing in 2006 that he is a 'credible' champion but I prefer to see the best man win and I think Schumacher and Raikkonen are better.

[monza gorilla 1]

Mike, I agree with your first sentence. And your last sentence. I'm very dubious about what's in between, even though I can see your logic.

[Autumnpuma 0]

I strongly disagree that you have to win 2 titles to become 'credible'. There are many champions who only won it once but had to fight hard for it, JV for example. JV doesnt have anything to prove, he's been to the top of the mountain and beat Schumacher. Alonso had a massive amount of good fortune last year, mainly thanks to the reliability of his renault and the lack of reliabilty on kimi's mercedes. Alonso is showing in 2006 that he is a 'credible' champion but I prefer to see the best man win and I think Schumacher and Raikkonen are better.

Questions still remain about Jacques. Did he win only because of a superior car? He still needs to disspell this talk.

There certainly are drivers who have only won once and have fought hard for it. There are always exceptions. However winning the second demonstrates that the first was not luck.

How can you say that Alonso benefited from a 'massive amount of good fortune' in the same breath as calling him a 'credible' champion? Is this based on only five races so far this season? He is performing the same this season as last, even down to having about the same points tally..if he wasn't credible last season, then you should be arguing he isn't credible this season, right?

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Questions still remain about Jacques. Did he win only because of a superior car? He still needs to disspell this talk.

There certainly are drivers who have only won once and have fought hard for it. There are always exceptions. However winning the second demonstrates that the first was not luck.

How can you say that Alonso benefited from a 'massive amount of good fortune' in the same breath as calling him a 'credible' champion? Is this based on only five races so far this season? He is performing the same this season as last, even down to having about the same points tally..if he wasn't credible last season, then you should be arguing he isn't credible this season, right?

Yes I didnt explain my view very well. What I mean is, Alonso did all he could do last year, made only 1 mistake all year and was always at/near the front. I say he benefited from good fortune cos kimi was generally faster but had to start a few races from the back, and retired from some races due to car failure. This year Alonso is fighting for wins and winning, rather than benefiting from faster cars having problems. its only been 5 races but my opinion of him has changed cos now I believe he's one of the best, whereas in 2005 I thought here is a guy who is no better than Trulli picking up flukey wins all the time. So now I think he is a credible champion, hope that makes more sense!

As for JV, yes he had the best car but thats F1, nearly all drivers win using the best car. Senna had the best car in his title-winning years, so did Mansell, so did Fangio, JV had the best car and used it to win. He did the job, basically, whilst his team-mate did nothing.

[pumpdoc 2]

Yes I didnt explain my view very well. What I mean is, Alonso did all he could do last year, made only 1 mistake all year and was always at/near the front. I say he benefited from good fortune cos kimi was generally faster but had to start a few races from the back, and retired from some races due to car failure. This year Alonso is fighting for wins and winning, rather than benefiting from faster cars having problems. its only been 5 races but my opinion of him has changed cos now I believe he's one of the best, whereas in 2005 I thought here is a guy who is no better than Trulli picking up flukey wins all the time. So now I think he is a credible champion, hope that makes more sense!

As for JV, yes he had the best car but thats F1, nearly all drivers win using the best car. Senna had the best car in his title-winning years, so did Mansell, so did Fangio, JV had the best car and used it to win. He did the job, basically, whilst his team-mate did nothing.

Did we lose a race???

[Machi 0]

Being Formula 1 champion says more about the car then about the driver. If you're the best driver in the field but your car is 0,5 sec slower then other cars, there's just no way you're gonna make it.

So I'd say winning the word title doesn't mean that much as most people think it means.

Don't get me wrong, they're all good drivers anyway, and for them it means a lot to win, but I wouldn't hype it as much as others do.

[dribbler 6]

In my opinion, the drivers who are multiple champion material are not necessarily the fastest but the most consistent, the ones who bang in a top drive race in race out, don't make mistakes and don't get fazed by a winning streak. Based on this i would say that behind Michael and Fernando the most likely for minimum double champion status are Kimi and Jenson. JPM is a loose canon.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Did we lose a race???

D'OH!!! My bad...

[Autumnpuma 0]

Yes I didnt explain my view very well. What I mean is, Alonso did all he could do last year, made only 1 mistake all year and was always at/near the front. I say he benefited from good fortune cos kimi was generally faster but had to start a few races from the back, and retired from some races due to car failure. This year Alonso is fighting for wins and winning, rather than benefiting from faster cars having problems. its only been 5 races but my opinion of him has changed cos now I believe he's one of the best, whereas in 2005 I thought here is a guy who is no better than Trulli picking up flukey wins all the time. So now I think he is a credible champion, hope that makes more sense!

It does. You are basically agreeing with me. A strong championship-winning performance after the first title win makes Alonso credible to you where his first championship alone did not.

As for JV, yes he had the best car but thats F1, nearly all drivers win using the best car. Senna had the best car in his title-winning years, so did Mansell, so did Fangio, JV had the best car and used it to win. He did the job, basically, whilst his team-mate did nothing.

So you also agree that JV's single championship raises some questions about if that was due to his skill or his dominant car. Good, another point we agree with!

As to the rest of your statement, that was not thought out very well. Senna did not always have the best car. He always had a top car, but not always the best. Fangio's always had very fast teammates, unless you consider Sterling Moss slow? Mansell I can't produce a sufficient argument against so I'll concede that to you. Going one further, MS didn't always have the 'best' car and yet he won championships.

[Fed up 0]

The worth of a Champion is in winning the second title. It is this second title that proves they've learned how to become a champion. It proves they've taken the lessons learned during thier first title fight and used them to win a second. Just as winning a race tells you how to win, so too does winning a championship.

Consider this startling thought: If Michael is the benchmark on which we judge future champions, then Fernando beating Michael will teach the spainiard a few valuable lessons in beating the best. All other drivers challenging for the crown will now have to beat a man that beat Michael. The bar will have been raised.

For Button, like Jacques, one race win will start a flood of others and, soon, a championship.

Spot on

[YHR 0]

Now to Jacques. A champion to be sure, but does he remember how to do it? I don't believe he does. I believe too much time has passed since his last race win, let alone championship. Jacques will need to start over. He is in the same boat as a number of other drivers still waiting to figure out how to win. Once he gets a win, then, like a tsunami, he will remember how to become a champion. Sadly, I do not think a race win is in the cards for Jacques.

What of the rest? Kimi and Juan Pablo are the most likely candidates to become champion. Juan Pablo has an edge because he has won championships before and knows how it's done. From this point it's all a guessing game, however, because Button could also surge forward and take a championship. For Button, like Jacques, one race win will start a flood of others and, soon, a championship.

For now, though, settle back and place your bets on the blue or the red.

I don't think JV has forgot how to win. His work with the tires , and the fact that once in front you have a hell of a time getting around him,points to sound race craft.

90% of a world championship drive is the car. You need the best car and team to win. FA had that last year, MS had it for all the Ferrari titles and JV had it with Williams.

I think like Frank Williams. Build the best car, put a good driver in it and you will win a Championship. What you don't want to do is spend 400 million building the best car, only to have a pilot that makes stupid mistakes undo all the good of your design. That is why I have never been a JPM fan. He makes silly mistakes.

MS and Alonso are equal. It will be the best team that wins this championship. I would bet on Renault. FA doesn't make many mistakes, and the only way MS is going to catch him is if he screws up.

[Autumnpuma 0]

I don't think JV has forgot how to win. His work with the tires , and the fact that once in front you have a hell of a time getting around him,points to sound race craft.

His racecraft was never in doubt. I'm a JV fan after all, but he's been too long from that top step. Once he gets a taste of regular podiums, that forgotten feeling of winning will return to him. The question is will that happen? I doubt it, but stranger things have happened.

90% of a world championship drive is the car. You need the best car and team to win. FA had that last year, MS had it for all the Ferrari titles and JV had it with Williams.

I am not sure how you can arrive at that percentage...? You only need the most reliable and a quickish car to win. You do not need the best car. Many of MS's wins were from superior strategy, not superior car (though at time he did indeed have both). Michael has the uncanny ability to pull out fast laps around pit-stops and that has helped him with many wins. Fernando had the most reliable car that was also fast. Kimi had the fastest car, and at least two of Kimi's retirements were due, im my opinion, to driver error. Had he not pushed quite so hard his car would have seen him to the end, and he would have become champion. In all these cases, it was the driver, not the car, that was the deciding factor. Certainly Imola last year proved what a driver can do with an inferior car...

I think like Frank Williams. Build the best car, put a good driver in it and you will win a Championship. What you don't want to do is spend 400 million building the best car, only to have a pilot that makes stupid mistakes undo all the good of your design. That is why I have never been a JPM fan. He makes silly mistakes.

Verstappen and Frentzen were in the best cars at one time, but no championships for them. Their teammates were better drivers and they got the crown. Driver, not car won those. Other examples exist, but do I need to list them?

MS and Alonso are equal. It will be the best team that wins this championship. I would bet on Renault. FA doesn't make many mistakes, and the only way MS is going to catch him is if he screws up.

I would agree completely after seeing Spain. Alonso is now capable of beating MS at his own game. I would say the war between the two of them will also be between Symmonds and Brawn. Those four men will decide this years crown.

[tvbf1 0]

[

I would agree completely after seeing Spain. Alonso is now capable of beating MS at his own game. I would say the war between the two of them will also be between Symmonds and Brawn. Those four men will decide this years crown.

I think that the Spain GP was in FA luck also. To me, if Fisi was not in front of MS, I think that MS could push out the quick laps to get ahead of FA after the pit. MS didn't pit until 5 laps after FA and we're all aware of MS ablility to pull out flying times when needed. But I think that he lost to much time being behind Fisi. However MS will never complain, and yet give other drivers credit for their wins.

Well I think right now, the cars is a huge factor in F1. Back in the days, a great driver can make things happen in an OK car. Like Senna, MS, etc... But now, even with great pilot like MS, or JV, without a good car they can't really do much. Just like MS in his F2005.

[dribbler 6]

I think that the Spain GP was in FA luck also. To me, if Fisi was not in front of MS, I think that MS could push out the quick laps to get ahead of FA after the pit. MS didn't pit until 5 laps after FA and we're all aware of MS ablility to pull out flying times when needed. But I think that he lost to much time being behind Fisi. However MS will never complain, and yet give other drivers credit for their wins.

Afraid not. Schumacher fan that i am, it was plain to see that in clean air Michael could not match Alonso. Impossible to say who is faster but clearly the Renault was better in Spain.

[cavallino 2]

I think that the Spain GP was in FA luck also. To me, if Fisi was not in front of MS, I think that MS could push out the quick laps to get ahead of FA after the pit. MS didn't pit until 5 laps after FA and we're all aware of MS ablility to pull out flying times when needed. But I think that he lost to much time being behind Fisi. However MS will never complain, and yet give other drivers credit for their wins.

Read Michael's post race remarks, he basically said that Fisi didnt really hold him up, they just weren't fast enough.

[KoolMonkey 0]

I'm not sure how anyone can claim JV wasn't a credible WDC. He was also the Champ Car WC and had won Indy 500. I suppose he simply lucked out on thsoe as well. From his very first race he was on the pace at Williams.

Asking the question of him "forgetting" how to win is rather silly when you consider he's not had a car worth an ounce for several years now. If you call Schumi credible, then look at last year and see how he also "forgot" to win races.

[tvbf1 0]

Read Michael's post race remarks, he basically said that Fisi didnt really hold him up, they just weren't fast enough.

Well like I said, MS is not the kind of guy that gives excuses when he doesn't win. He always praises the winner and never blames his team. That's why I think he's like the best out there.

However that's my opinion about the Spanish GP. I'm not saying that I'm totally correct and you guys are wrong. I'm also not saying that FA is not fast. I just thought that the end result COULD had been different, or maybe it would just be a close battle betwen the two in the end.

Well hopefully it's going to be good battle at Manoco, but it's usually a boring race execpt for the first few laps.

[cavallino 2]

Well like I said, MS is not the kind of guy that gives excuses when he doesn't win. He always praises the winner and never blames his team. That's why I think he's like the best out there.

However that's my opinion about the Spanish GP. I'm not saying that I'm totally correct and you guys are wrong. I'm also not saying that FA is not fast. I just thought that the end result COULD had been different, or maybe it would just be a close battle betwen the two in the end.

Well hopefully it's going to be good battle at Manoco, but it's usually a boring race execpt for the first few laps.

Michael said they weren't fast enough, Ferrari never looked like they were fast enough in the race, you have to ack up your opinion with something.

[Autumnpuma 0]

I'm not sure how anyone can claim JV wasn't a credible WDC. He was also the Champ Car WC and had won Indy 500. I suppose he simply lucked out on thsoe as well. From his very first race he was on the pace at Williams.

It's done all the time. Because he was in a dominant car, there are still people that believe it was the car, not the driver, who won the WDC. Had he, in the following years, even looked like he did in '97 then perhaps this woud be different. Yes he was stuck in a crap car far too long...that leads into the next comment...

Asking the question of him "forgetting" how to win is rather silly when you consider he's not had a car worth an ounce for several years now. If you call Schumi credible, then look at last year and see how he also "forgot" to win races.

I never asked a question about JV forgetting how to win. I made a statement to that effect. It is a well-known phenomenon that if a fast driver is stuck in a mid-field car for too long, his speed suffers. When you are fighting for so long for a 12th or 13th place, you don't think about a podium. If you don't think about a podium, it's very hard to 'remember' how to get there. This is more of a feeling thing as opposed to a cognitive thing. Of course he remembers his wins, but does his reflexes and mind truly know that experience anymore..?

I call MS credible because he has won a 2nd title..and a 3rd...and a 4th...etc...

[tvbf1 0]

Michael said they weren't fast enough, Ferrari never looked like they were fast enough in the race, you have to ack up your opinion with something.

You know what, I did say that it was just my opinion. I didn't say that you guys are wrong so there's no reason to get offensive. The reason why I said that MS might have had chance is because the fact that he was behind Fisi and he put in fast time after Fisi pitted.

If you listen to post race all the time, Honda, Toyota, and the other teams say that they're fast and they can win or get podium but is that true? If not then should we base everything on post races or what the driver say?

Well back to the WDC, I don't think JV needs to prove anything or his championship is creditable or not. I'm sure that a lot of you agree that he did beat MS fair and square in the 97 battle.

[F1 FANatic 1]

He was also the Champ Car WC and had won Indy 500. I suppose he simply lucked out on thsoe as well. From his very first race he was on the

not such a special thing im sorry to say, Monty did just the same and look at him. I was watching a documentary on indy racing and the techinical guy said that teams could set up the car so drivers would only need to turn the wheel between three and five degreese in curves and hit the gas. a blind chimp with out arms could do that. the only thing you need a driver for in indy is to avaoid the other drivers when they decide to hit the wall.

[Autumnpuma 0]

not such a special thing im sorry to say, Monty did just the same and look at him. I was watching a documentary on indy racing and the techinical guy said that teams could set up the car so drivers would only need to turn the wheel between three and five degreese in curves and hit the gas. a blind chimp with out arms could do that. the only thing you need a driver for in indy is to avaoid the other drivers when they decide to hit the wall.

Hmmm....Jimmy Clark raced at Indy. That give the race more than enough credentials for me. Also, if memory serves, Jacques won from two laps down. That, my friend, is quite a feat and very rare.

[YHR 0]

not such a special thing im sorry to say, Monty did just the same and look at him. I was watching a documentary on indy racing and the techinical guy said that teams could set up the car so drivers would only need to turn the wheel between three and five degreese in curves and hit the gas. a blind chimp with out arms could do that. the only thing you need a driver for in indy is to avaoid the other drivers when they decide to hit the wall.

Oval racing creates nerves of steel. You may only have to move the wheel 3 degrees, but missing the groove just a little and your day is done. In my opinion that is the single best thing to come out of oval racing. Nerves of Steel. It will serve you well in your racing career.

[YHR 0]

I am not sure how you can arrive at that percentage...?

I obviously pulled it out of my a##, but the fact remains a driver's input in relation to the rest of the factors contributing to success in racing is at its lowest level in F1 history.

You only need the most reliable and a quickish car to win. You do not need the best car. Many of MS's wins were from superior strategy, not superior car (though at time he did indeed have both)

Without a top notch car, strategy will win you zip. Last year Renault had the best car. It wasn't the fastest, but it was the best. My money is on a good driver in the best car beating the best driver in good car. i.e.

Two cars on the track. A Renault and a BMW. Put JV in the Renault and Alonso in the BMW. Who's gonna win????

Certainly Imola last year proved what a driver can do with an inferior car...

Mixed with a whole pile of retirements

Verstappen and Frentzen were in the best cars at one time, but no championships for them.

Neither one I remember as been actually considered Good. Frentzen career is easily forgetable

Other examples exist, but do I need to list them?

Please do. But when you do this you will have to remember you are going back to a time when the drivers input meant more then it does today.