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Schumacher Sent To Back Of Grid

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Jay, most of those are refutable, I'll just look at the few I can off the top of my head, the rest which I didnt witness I will have to re-research.

Two schools of thought, you are probably well aware of them, so I won't bother restating.

I am still to know how they could have used traciton control without anyone knowing, when we can make out so easily when the persent day cars use it.

Not illegal. the precedent was set with Mclaren team orders that the FIA did nothing about.

mere opinion, nothing illegal done on track.

as above. If Rubens was cheated above, he got it back, I really didnt see why people complained so much.

Webber wasn't overtaking.

He flipped the visor down, seriously you now sound like one of the antis we have here.

He was reprimanded, that was pretty much all you could expect in that situation.

An excellent defender. :thbup:

funkejay: 0 <> cavallino: 8

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No one bitched when McLaren and Williams dominated F1. supremo double standard.
What you conveniently fail to point out is that noone bitched because McLaren and Williams allowed their drivers to race for most if not all season. Ferrari was only concerned with Michael winning, the other guy was just there to drive the second car and move over on the odd occasion he was in front of Michael.
So he went in too fast to a corner and locked up. big deal. people lock up all the time.

Did you even watch the incident?? He didn't lock up. His tyres were still rotating and the engine still running, he could easily have made the corner had he wanted. He turns in then straightens up and heads into the barrier, steering slightly to avoid the wall then stops. How he thought he could get away with it this time is beyond me.

And just when I thought I'd seen the worst of the German......

One last dodgy act perhaps ;)

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funkejay that is a good post....I must say I dont remember al the stuff especially Indy 2002

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An excellent defender. :thbup:

funkejay: 0 <> cavallino: 8

SchumiDeSuck - if you want any credibility whatsoever, you can't summarily discount the fact that I have highlighted one incident for which Schumi was officially reprimanded by the FIA, two seperate occassions where he was suspended or banned by the FIA, and an entire season where they stripped him of results. All of which are in addition to the incident from Monaco qualifying earlier today. That is an unprecedented record in the entire history of F1.

What Cav offers in response are his opinion regarding 8 of the 11 incidents listed above which I clearly characterized as instances of unsportsmanlike behaviour, which is admittedly a matter of mere opinion (as opposed to the 5 where the FIA have officially sanctioned him for such behaviour). Furthermore, Cav treats each one as though I suggested they were further examples of cheating, which I did not. Nevertheless, I am content to say that Cav and I will agree to disagree on those matters and score them a draw.

However, the incidents where the FIA have sanctioned Schumi cannot be refuted, meaning that this debate must (in absolute fairness) be more accurately scored (if you insist on scoring it at all) as:

Funkejay: 5

Cavallino: 0

Draws: 8

Uncontested: 3

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Did you even watch the incident?? He didn't lock up. His tyres were still rotating and the engine still running, he could easily have made the corner had he wanted.

So where's all the excessive, unusual and undue braking the Stewards are rabbiting on about?

How do you use excessive braking and yet not lock up?

You watch the video.

The c#ckpit view shows when the wheel(s) lock up.

The overhead view shows the points of understeer.

Shades of a few years ago on the Monaco warm up lap when Schumi went into the barrier at the low speed right hander after Loews.

How come nobody suggested that was intentional?

Hmmmmm? :rolleyes:

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Stewards have telemetry data,they know things more than we do and if they had to give such a penalty therell be a good reason for it.

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How come nobody suggested that was intentional?

That's absolutely right!If we were to analyze all accidents/incidents like that then all of them could appear intentional!!For instance Ide wanted to overtake Albers didn't he??He could have stopped earlier but maybe he thought it was a good opportunity to gain a place so he pushed Albers out of the race hoping nobody would see him!!Make it look like an accident :naughty:

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Jenson didnt cheat, his team did. And even then it wasnt clear!

Finally FIA made a correct decision!

AT LAST the FIA are showing some BALLS. god how long it has been. M.S. is a VERY ASTUTE driver with his mind thinking all the time. This Time some one elses mind was on the same wave length and it was the OFFICIALS.

I gotta say I am lost for words.......AT LAST, BLOODY LAST the FIA have seen through M.S. has taken 7 championships but.........................

If the stewards think MS has deliberately cheated (quite obvious from the video) I thing being just demoted to the last place is a LIGHT PUNISHMENT. he shoud have been excluded for AT LEAST TWO RACES.

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Woot! Finally a correct action by the stewards...

And demon, seriously let it be man. The Senna vs Prost incidents in my eyes are as bad as this. Don't pigeon hole everyone and claim people havconveniently forgotten those times. I sure as hell havn't.

1/ If it was the "correct" action, the stewards would have investigated a lot more drivers and penalised probably half the grid. Also I would have expected better of Renault than to cry to the authorities like this, thats the kind of hipocrisy I would expect from Ron Dennis. I thought more of Alonso before this too.

2/ I seriously doubt that many remember those prost-senna incidents in the same light. Its still hypocrisy on the part of those that can conveniently brush it aside, which apparently includes the FIA and most of the paddock.

I'll 'let it be' if you let this one be?

Didn't think so.

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Sorry, i hate the quoting systems:

Kaisalsek: " I have never seen someone lie as obviously as he did in the press conference."

I think the "I did not have sexual relationships with that women" would be one hey? :P

SchumiDeSuck: "A bit too late. Should have started in 1994."

LOL :P But I think you have to agree, MS has made alot of people watch F1, just like the great Senna. If Alonso can keep it up he'll hopefully be the insperation for more fans to start watching. Just wait for the day when Alonso is accused of cheating...

Funkejay : "There is no rationale reason for doing so, and the only obvious explanation (and one which the stewards similarly reached) is that he did so deliberately."

Have you ever driven an F1 car? [if so, thats cool! :) ] but you dont know what happened. For all you know the cars steering locked up, MS paniced, he missed juged. Senna appeared to drive striaght that unfortunate day, why didnt he turn? See, not everything is as you see it on tv. I think that is what Demonhorse is pretesting, innocent till proven guilty and so far there is no evidence from FIA, just the decision.

Demonhorse: "interesting if yet more bias. Also theres a comment in there that Ferrari MUST protest the decision if they truly are innocent... this is BS as they have not been given the right of appeal."

I agree with this, I have little respect for the FIA. They should have have a hearing and if found guilty, punished MS in the next race, rather than just say "guilty" without hearing the other side of the story. What happened with MS might have been cheating, but then again he is human and can make mistakes. What people are failing to notice is that Alonso didnt slow down with yellow flags waving, this is clear breach of rules. In my opinion, because of the dangers of blind turns ect. qualifying should have been stopped and those on track given 3 laps after MS's car was removed. Perhaps an even more "fair" punishment would to drop schumacher to 10th [seeing as he got to the final round of qualifying] Think that would have been the most fair outcome AND KEPT THE EXCITMENT OF THE RACE ALIVE. Of course, those arent the rules.

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Just wait for the day when Alonso is accused of cheating...

Exactly... but i think it will only happen if he 'wins too much'

Funkejay : "There is no rationale reason for doing so, and the only obvious explanation (and one which the stewards similarly reached) is that he did so deliberately."

Have you ever driven an F1 car? [if so, thats cool! :) ] but you dont know what happened. For all you know the cars steering locked up, MS paniced, he missed juged. Senna appeared to drive striaght that unfortunate day, why didnt he turn? See, not everything is as you see it on tv. I think that is what Demonhorse is pretesting, innocent till proven guilty and so far there is no evidence from FIA, just the decision.

Holla... tell it like it is, even if the rest don't like it... :thbup:

Demonhorse: "interesting if yet more bias. Also theres a comment in there that Ferrari MUST protest the decision if they truly are innocent... this is BS as they have not been given the right of appeal."

I agree with this, I have little respect for the FIA. They should have have a hearing and if found guilty, punished MS in the next race, rather than just say "guilty" without hearing the other side of the story. What happened with MS might have been cheating, but then again he is human and can make mistakes. What people are failing to notice is that Alonso didnt slow down with yellow flags waving, this is clear breach of rules. In my opinion, because of the dangers of blind turns ect. qualifying should have been stopped and those on track given 3 laps after MS's car was removed.

Indeed he is human, exactly what i've been saying. :)

I'm not sure Alonso even SAW the yellow flags from what I've seen, as they were only on the inside of the corner I think, clearly not good enough.

The answer you suggest with qualy being stopped would have been a just one, make Alonso PROVE that he would have got Pole anyway.

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In my opinion since they had no way of conclusively proving that it was deliberate, he should have got a penalty similar to Fisichella, probably 10 place grid penalty. Declaring him guilty of cheating does set a very dangerous precedent, though it was the easy way out to keep all the vitriolic press and paddock people happy. I hope some rational opinions from those public figures emerge in a few days when things settle down.

The only thing it does is shut up the conspiracy theorists for a while, they have been strangely quiet, almost disappointed with the verdict. It also goes to show us that were Trulli to complain in Imola, he would have got a fair hearing, the same steward decided the penalty for Michael.

It gets better, Mosley has come out in support of the decision - a decision that is a huge if not a fatal blow to Ferrari's championship hopes, and could also drive down viewership figures towards the end of the season if we get a repeat of last year.

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In my opinion since they had no way of conclusively proving that it was deliberate, he should have got a penalty similar to Fisichella, probably 10 place grid penalty. Declaring him guilty of cheating does set a very dangerous precedent, though it was the easy way out to keep all the vitriolic press and paddock people happy. I hope some rational opinions from those public figures emerge in a few days when things settle down.

The only thing it does is shut up the conspiracy theorists for a while, they have been strangely quiet, almost disappointed with the verdict. It also goes to show us that were Trulli to complain in Imola, he would have got a fair hearing, the same steward decided the penalty for Michael.

It gets better, Mosley has come out in support of the decision - a decision that is a huge if not a fatal blow to Ferrari's championship hopes, and could also drive down viewership figures towards the end of the season if we get a repeat of last year.

It might have shut up the pro-ferrari-fia-conspiracy theorists, but now I firmly believe the last few years it's more of an anti-ferrari conspiracy. I know one thing, I've never seen the rules being drastically changed in any other sport because one team/player dominated.

Just heard a comment "amazingly schumacher hasn't had any problems at rascasse corner in the last 20 laps" on the so-called impartial ITVF1 coverage. Well Martin Brundle, accidents like that do only tend to happen the once.. I could easily comment on his accident in the australian GP and how he didn't get it that wrong every lap...

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Pretty obvious that because the name of the man was Michael Schumacher that they threw the book at him without complete evidence. They should have investigated it this coming week and banned him for the next race if they thought him to be guilty.

It's unbelievable the flack he has taken off some 'so called' great ex-drivers and current drivers. Without all the facts they have sweeped in with their comments about him.

It's times like this people just forget the great things he's done for this sport.

As Ferrari said:

"Michael was on his final timed lap and he was trying to put his first place beyond doubt, as could be seen from the fact that his first split time was the best and could have seen him do another very good lap,

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Pretty obvious that because the name of the man was Michael Schumacher that they threw the book at him without complete evidence. They should have investigated it this coming week and banned him for the next race if they thought him to be guilty.

It's unbelievable the flack he has taken off some 'so called' great ex-drivers and current drivers. Without all the facts they have sweeped in with their comments about him.

It's times like this people just forget the great things he's done for this sport.

As Ferrari said:

"Michael was on his final timed lap and he was trying to put his first place beyond doubt, as could be seen from the fact that his first split time was the best and could have seen him do another very good lap,

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Well with Fernando safely in the lead now this season is over!!!

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Could not agree more, people do forget ALL the good he's done that far outweighs the bad, but it's easily done because theres always some a$$hole shoving the bad things down our throats every time MS even turns a wheel wrong.

Exactly, maybe it's because he's so dam good these people forget he's still human and like other drivers makes mistakes or even does something stupid now and again (though I'm still not convinced he did it on this occasion). Or maybe it's because he's so dam good the wrong things other drivers do, dont matter so much.

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Well with Fernando safely in the lead now this season is over!!!
Exactly, maybe it's because he's so dam good these people forget he's still human and like other drivers makes mistakes or even does something stupid now and again (though I'm still not convinced he did it on this occasion). Or maybe it's because he's so dam good the wrong things other drivers do, dont matter so much.

Seems to me schumis doing a pretty good damage limitation job right now, probably the best he could have hoped for after being screwed over by the stewards. Sadly Alonso probably does have the title within arms reach now, another thing people bitched about when it was Schumi in that position this early in the season.

Good to see Kimi on usual form blowing engines again while his teammate manages fine with the same engine.

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Alonso definately looks good for the title, but dont rule Schumacher out, I feel this weekend may well give him another gear and more drive to shove some comments right back down others throats.

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Alonso definately looks good for the title, but dont rule Schumacher out, I feel this weekend may well give him another gear and more drive to shove some comments right back down others throats.

I most definately hope so. I never rule Schumi out completely but things have been tending to go Alonso's way. Hopefully at the end of the season we'll still have a battle in the last few races.

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Last to 5th in Monaco.Do you really think Schumi needs to cheat?? :P:king:

Indeed!!!! :king:

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No he doesnt need to cheat...He is excellent driver, but you must admit that SC has helped him a lot in this race.

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No he doesnt need to cheat...He is excellent driver, but you must admit that SC has helped him a lot in this race.

.........as it did the others..........................

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.........as it did the others..........................

True...

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