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tifosi too!

The Spaniard Steward Explains....??

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Believe me, there is no question that MS deserves the label of cheater more than any other single individual in recent Formula 1 histroy, and he may even deserve the laurels for the biggest cheat in the history of the sport.

And before you protest, rest assured that I am not basing my observations on this last incident alone, but as someone who has watched every single F1 race in which MS has ever competed, in addition to a considerable amount of reading on the history of the sport.

Yea he cheated his way all through his 7 wdc and 86 carreer wins and while bringing Ferrari back to the top after 21 years!! :rolleyes: Just how can anyone do that?And i guess none of his victories were real victories!Sometimes we have to be a bit more objective!If you dont like him it doesnt make your arguments right.

And obviously many people in here have done a lot of reading and watched F1 for decade(s) too, yet dont claim themselves as the ultimate source!Personal opinions are ok but cant be used as an argument!

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as JV rightly said "I hope it was deliberate, cause if it was a mistake, then he should hand over his F1 superlicense" .....not exact quotes but it rightly summarizes Schumi's actions. I have always been a Schumi fan and will remain one. He is not a god! just a great driver. I will cheer great driving and not stupid stunts like the one he pulled off in monaco.

as fans we must realize that our heroes our people and are subject to greed, villany and other lowly human traits....they may still be great drivers, but sometimes they so stink as humans. Luckily for me I don't watch formula 1 to learn morals, I love formula 1 for the racing! clean or dirty, as long as its fun!

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Yea he cheated his way all through his 7 wdc and 86 carreer wins and while bringing Ferrari back to the top after 21 years!! :rolleyes: Just how can anyone do that?And i guess none of his victories were real victories!Sometimes we have to be a bit more objective!If you dont like him it doesnt make your arguments right.

And obviously many people in here have done a lot of reading and watched F1 for decade(s) too, yet dont claim themselves as the ultimate source!Personal opinions are ok but cant be used as an argument!

A word of advice: be quite sure of your points before disputing Jay (funkejay).

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A word of advice: be quite sure of your points before disputing Jay (funkejay).

Thanks for the advice!!!!But i didn't really disputed him!more like he disputed everybody else claiming that HE knows he is a cheater!I 'll be waiting to check out the proof!Especially if possible, electronic wiring and software of that '94-'95 Benetton that some say had illegal traction control(like they say for this years Renault if anyone heard it) etc.I 'm not trying to start an argument about things i 'll never be able to prove or do nothing more than speculate!And as for Schumi maybe everyone should listen to Bernie Ecclestone and soon enough when he retires maybe we 'll all be able to say that "i saw him Race"!!! :king:

And as far as JV i really like(d) the guy!But i think the superlicence argument is not that good for him.We all remember how he wasn't able to slow down and hit RS in the back in the Aus Grand Prix and took off and a marshall was killed.JV likes to say things they way they are so i don't think he would disagree!! :whistling:

And i most certainly dont think Schumi is god or flawless or something!But as everybody else i support my team and our ..players!!And it doesn't get personal!Just exchanging views and arguments(when we have time)!!

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Thanks for the advice!!!!But i didn't really disputed him!more like he disputed everybody else claiming that HE knows he is a cheater!I 'll be waiting to check out the proof!Especially if possible, electronic wiring and software of that '94-'95 Benetton that some say had illegal traction control(like they say for this years Renault if anyone heard it) etc.I 'm not trying to start an argument about things i 'll never be able to prove or do nothing more than speculate!And as for Schumi maybe everyone should listen to Bernie Ecclestone and soon enough when he retires maybe we 'll all be able to say that "i saw him Race"!!! :king:

And as far as JV i really like(d) the guy!But i think the superlicence argument is not that good for him.We all remember how he wasn't able to slow down and hit RS in the back in the Aus Grand Prix and took off and a marshall was killed.JV likes to say things they way they are so i don't think he would disagree!! :whistling:

And i most certainly dont think Schumi is god or flawless or something!But as everybody else i support my team and our ..players!!And it doesn't get personal!Just exchanging views and arguments(when we have time)!!

Puma is too serious as a "senior driver", he is stuck in the 80's with a dead man's picture.

Gilles was great ........... but that's a long, long time ago.

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Puma is too serious as a "senior driver", he is stuck in the 80's with a dead man's picture.

Gilles was great ........... but that's a long, long time ago.

: ;) i think puma just wants to be different and distinguished in this forum full of young inexperiencedF1 newbies.....what do we know about F1? :eusa_think:

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Verdegay said that all the evidence pointed out that Schumacher acted deliberately and that it wasn't a driver's mistake. "It was a painful decision because we could not make a mistake and put the reputation of the driver at risk

1. This is bull Sh#t

2. Verdegay got his few hours in the sun and his press time

3. If FA couldn't go faster than MS in the preceding laps in qualifying, I doubt that the last lap would have made any difference

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as JV rightly said "I hope it was deliberate, cause if it was a mistake, then he should hand over his F1 superlicense"

Right, so by that logic ANY driver who EVER made any kind of mistake should do the same? I think not as that would include just about every driver EVER.

as fans we must realize that our heroes our people and are subject to greed, villany and other lowly human traits....they may still be great drivers, but sometimes they so stink as humans.

I can just see Alonso or other drivers in a few years time doing something like this, then all his fans will defend him for similar actions to those Schumi is criticised for.

Also to all those who say don't dispute funkejay or whoever, isn't that what a forum is for? Debate and DISPUTING of the statements of others? It's all part of discussion.

oh and Schumacher was duly punished each time he has cheated, wasn't it 97 he lost a bunch of points when he was disqualified from the last race? Don't act like he's never been punished for any of his wrongdoings before Monaco....

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oh and Schumacher was duly punished each time he has cheated, wasn't it 97 he lost a bunch of points when he was disqualified from the last race? Don't act like he's never been punished for any of his wrongdoings before Monaco....

He was never punished for adelaide 1994, the worst of his 'controversial' incidents. And I think being stripped of 2nd place in 1997 but retaining all wins/points records is a rubbish punishment considering what he tried to do

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Right, so by that logic ANY driver who EVER made any kind of mistake should do the same? I think not as that would include just about every driver EVER.

I can just see Alonso or other drivers in a few years time doing something like this, then all his fans will defend him for similar actions to those Schumi is criticised for.

Also to all those who say don't dispute funkejay or whoever, isn't that what a forum is for? Debate and DISPUTING of the statements of others? It's all part of discussion.

oh and Schumacher was duly punished each time he has cheated, wasn't it 97 he lost a bunch of points when he was disqualified from the last race? Don't act like he's never been punished for any of his wrongdoings before Monaco....

A driver with the habit of cheating for more than a decade is totally unacceptable to me.

I hope schumi will wake up and show us his sportmanship for the rest of his career.

:)

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Well it was all about the contradictions in the stewards statement and how unconvincing and unreliable they appear to be,something that today appears to gain ground as an opinion!!

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A driver with the habit of cheating for more than a decade is totally unacceptable to me.

I hope schumi will wake up and show us his sportmanship for the rest of his career.

:)

I find it strange that you spend so much time hating someone. Even going to the extreme of creating a hate-some-one quote name to represent your goodself. Just go & watch your TV. :ferrari:

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I find it strange that you spend so much time hating someone. Even going to the extreme of creating a hate-some-one quote name to represent your goodself. Just go & watch your TV. :ferrari:

I find it strange that you spend so much time loving someone. Even going to the extreme of creating a love-some-one quote name to represent your goodself. Just go & watch your TV.

:)

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A driver with the habit of cheating for more than a decade is totally unacceptable to me.

I hope schumi will wake up and show us his sportmanship for the rest of his career.

:)

By the same token, I hope certain drivers get some talent and learn how to make their engines survive...

Also you are wrong to call a relatively small number incidents, which are very OCCASIONAL, a habit, the word habit implies this happens every race which is completely untrue.

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I find it strange that you spend so much time loving someone. Even going to the extreme of creating a love-some-one quote name to represent your goodself. Just go & watch your TV.

:)

That's 10 times nicer, my boy. :bye:

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By the same token, I hope certain drivers get some talent and learn how to make their engines survive...

Is it possible for drivers to learn how to make their engines survive???

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Is it possible for drivers to learn how to make their engines survive???

I was talking about Kimi who keeps blowing his up... :rolleyes: I still don't think that's due to his engine being crap as some claimed most of last year.

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I was talking about Kimi who keeps blowing his up... :rolleyes: I still don't think that's due to his engine being crap as some claimed most of last year.

oh dear, dont tell me you're one of these plebs who thinks its kimi's fault that his engine kept dying.

Did u notice that JPM's engine failed a lot too????

Did u notice kimi had engine failures in practise sessions when he had barely driven the car that weekend?

A driver is paid to drive his car as fast as he can. He should be able to do that without his engine failing him.

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oh dear, dont tell me you're one of these plebs who thinks its kimi's fault that his engine kept dying.

Did u notice that JPM's engine failed a lot too????

Did u notice kimi had engine failures in practise sessions when he had barely driven the car that weekend?

Yes, when it was the second weekend of use for that engine in most cases. I still maintain he is overrated and if not the ONLY factor in the engine breakages, the evidence suggests that he is a major factor at least. The fact that it was mostly his engines and rarely (relatively speaking) Montoya's only strengthens this viewpoint for me, and I don't care whether you buy it or not, opinions differ.

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Yes, when it was the second weekend of use for that engine in most cases. I still maintain he is overrated and if not the ONLY factor in the engine breakages, the evidence suggests that he is a major factor at least. The fact that it was mostly his engines and rarely (relatively speaking) Montoya's only strengthens this viewpoint for me, and I don't care whether you buy it or not, opinions differ.

You are wise to notice this tendency of Kimi's. Pointing out that JPM's engine has blown up also is not really proof. In CART, Monty was constantly over-driving his car and blowing the Toyota's engine.

Yes, jems, it is possible for a driver to break his engine; especially with these new, high rpm v8's. Not all engine failures are driver-induced, but it can happen. If you constantly keep your revs up too high you can overheat elements (seals) and cause a loss in power. This usually results, in these high rpm motors, in the oil shooting out from a ruptured seal and catching on fire. Another driver-induced cause of engine failure is a harsh throttle. If you mash your throttle on exit, lap after lap, you increase the chances of dramatic pressure changes and vibrations within the engine. Of course, not all engines are made equal. Alonso and Kimi have similar throttle 'habits' and Kimi seems to have the trouble. This is due to the Renault being able to handle that style more than the Illmor.

Kimi's lack of sympathy for his car was evident last season when he recklessly flat-spotted his tire and the subsequent vibrations tore his suspension to bits, losing him a race and some valuable points. There are other instances with Kimi (and other drivers) that prove this out, if you are willing to accept that proof..

Oh, and my comment about funkejay was based on my own debates with him. He rarely makes mistakes and he always presents a well-thought-out argument to an issue.

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:D Good!

You say the words I want to say but I dont know how... B)

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What a load of rubbish. Sato's engine kept blowing in 2004, and the team made it clear that it was nothing to do with the driver. How can you 'over-drive' the car? This is motor racing, which is all about pushing your machinery to the limit. Again, drivers should be able to do that without it breaking. I cant believe real f1 fans actually believe this utter crap that its kimi's fault he kept having engine failures. I once asked a while ago what the evidence was for this rubbish, and all someone could say was "kimi posted the fastest lap at silverstone 05, when he didnt need to". And that was it. Anyone got anything better?

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What a load of rubbish. Sato's engine kept blowing in 2004, and the team made it clear that it was nothing to do with the driver. How can you 'over-drive' the car? This is motor racing, which is all about pushing your machinery to the limit. Again, drivers should be able to do that without it breaking. I cant believe real f1 fans actually believe this utter crap that its kimi's fault he kept having engine failures. I once asked a while ago what the evidence was for this rubbish, and all someone could say was "kimi posted the fastest lap at silverstone 05, when he didnt need to". And that was it. Anyone got anything better?

I agree Jemstride. It is obviously McLaren's fault that Kimi has had terrible reliability. Look at McLarens record over the past 10 years and you can see that they have shocking reliability. It was really annoying when DC looked like he was going to get a podium or a win and then his mercedes engine let go. DC seemed to get all the reliability probems at McLaren while Hakkinen seemed to get alot less. Now Kimi is the driver with all the reliability problems with Montoya getting far better reliability.

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What a load of rubbish. Sato's engine kept blowing in 2004, and the team made it clear that it was nothing to do with the driver. How can you 'over-drive' the car? This is motor racing, which is all about pushing your machinery to the limit. Again, drivers should be able to do that without it breaking.

Yeah, it's McLaren's fault, thats why it only really happened to Kimi. <_< You haven't provided a convincing explanation as to why if it's a 'crap' engine, Montoya's lasted most races.

Sorry still not convinced by your argument, and it is unlikely I ever will be as it's unlikely you will come to thinking my way. Just accept it, I already have.

Also most drivers DO manage to take their machinery over the limit without breaking, just Kimi is obviously doing something that gets faster speeds but takes the engine further over the limit than anyone else. This season he has managed to make them last better but still has his blowups, which Montoya also hasn't had. Again this points to the driver for me.

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