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tifosi too!

The Spaniard Steward Explains....??

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Also most drivers DO manage to take their machinery over the limit without breaking, just Kimi is obviously doing something that gets faster speeds but takes the engine further over the limit than anyone else. This season he has managed to make them last better but still has his blowups, which Montoya also hasn't had. Again this points to the driver for me.

Or perhaps the mercedes is a more reliable engine this year. If it was kimi's fault then we would have heard that, either from mclaren/merc or from someone else, but we havent heard that at all - most likely cos its utter nonsense. Its up to merc to produce an engine that can be pushed hard by kimi, in order to win, and not break down. What do u want kimi to do, slow down?

Also most drivers DO manage to take their machinery over the limit without breaking, just Kimi is obviously doing something that gets faster speeds but takes the engine further over the limit than anyone else. This season he has managed to make them last better but still has his blowups, which Montoya also hasn't had. Again this points to the driver for me.

Or perhaps the mercedes is a more reliable engine this year. If it was kimi's fault then we would have heard that, either from mclaren/merc or from someone else, but we havent heard that at all - most likely cos its utter nonsense. Its up to merc to produce an engine that can be pushed hard by kimi, in order to win, and not break down. What do u want kimi to do, slow down?

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[quote name='demonhorse' post='120737' date='Jun 1 2006, 02:41 PM']Yeah, it's McLaren's fault, thats why it only really happened to Kimi. <_< You haven't provided a convincing explanation as to why if it's a 'crap' engine, [b]Montoya's lasted most races[/b].

Sorry still not convinced by your argument, and it is unlikely I ever will be as it's unlikely you will come to thinking my way. Just accept it, I already have.

Also most drivers DO manage to take their machinery over the limit without breaking, just Kimi is obviously doing something that gets faster speeds but takes the engine further over the limit than anyone else. This season he has managed to make them last better but still has his blowups, which Montoya also hasn't had. Again this points to the driver for me.[/quote]
Ive also noticed this... When even Montoya breaks less engine you must know!

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Jemstride, saying you don't believe a driver can 'overdrive' his car is the height of stupidity. Surely you said that only to stir some arguments up...?

Of course there are instances that the engine blows of it's own accord. There are other instances that a DNF is due to the driver overdriving his car. The breakages don't have to be limited to just the engine by the way. Also, you asked if Kimi should just 'slow down'..well, if his car cannot take his aggressive driving style, then he needs to tone it down. Bringing the car home is far better than leaving it in the kitty-litter.

Your credibility is in serious doubt right now. Perhaps you need to follow a less...cerebral...sport. :eusa_think: Perhaps follow some local saloon races and work your way up to F1....

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Your credibility is in serious doubt right now. Perhaps you need to follow a less...cerebral...sport. :eusa_think: Perhaps follow some local saloon races and work your way up to F1....

:rofl:

Sorry Puma, but I have years trying to make jems understand the point...but he has the theory of the extremely bad luck vs the incredible good luck...just a bunch of time loose

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Jemstride, saying you don't believe a driver can 'overdrive' his car is the height of stupidity. Surely you said that only to stir some arguments up...?

Of course there are instances that the engine blows of it's own accord. There are other instances that a DNF is due to the driver overdriving his car. The breakages don't have to be limited to just the engine by the way. Also, you asked if Kimi should just 'slow down'..well, if his car cannot take his aggressive driving style, then he needs to tone it down. Bringing the car home is far better than leaving it in the kitty-litter.

Your credibility is in serious doubt right now. Perhaps you need to follow a less...cerebral...sport. :eusa_think: Perhaps follow some local saloon races and work your way up to F1....

Well perhaps other than being too hard on Jemstride maybe this is not as simple as it may seem!!If the people in here SUSPECT that Kimi keeps braking his engine,dont you think MCLAREN would have KNOWN that by now, especially after having lost last years (both) championships due to the failures on KIMIS car??This is F1!!You think they simply said "Hey be more gentle" and he didn't??There are countless ways to bypass this problem(if thats what it is) by simply adjusting(mapping) the engine or the gearbox to Kimis driving style!Overdriving of the car(generally speaking,not just the engine) is of course as easy as simply driving it!But this is KR we are talking about!He is champion material and the car SHOULD be suited to his style and be able to be driven on the edge. :coffee:

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Well perhaps other than being too hard on Jemstride maybe this is not as simple as it may seem!!If the people in here SUSPECT that Kimi keeps braking his engine,dont you think MCLAREN would have KNOWN that by now, especially after having lost last years (both) championships due to the failures on KIMIS car??This is F1!!You think they simply said "Hey be more gentle" and he didn't??There are countless ways to bypass this problem(if thats what it is) by simply adjusting(mapping) the engine or the gearbox to Kimis driving style!Overdriving of the car(generally speaking,not just the engine) is of course as easy as simply driving it!But this is KR we are talking about!He is champion material and the car SHOULD be suited to his style and be able to be driven on the edge. :coffee:

Perhaps Kimi's inability to keep his car together is one reason (of many) that McRon signed Alonso? :eusa_think:

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Perhaps Kimi's inability to keep his car together is one reason (of many) that McRon signed Alonso? :eusa_think:

Well RD did say that he hopes Kimi will stay!but i believe his motive for signing FA goes beyond than getting a good driver!He already has that!Deep(may not that deep) in his mind he wanted to destabilise the winning team and fight for the championship ASAP!Imagine RD getting MSC from ferrari in 2000(Well he did try :naughty::rolleyes: ).

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Jemstride, saying you don't believe a driver can 'overdrive' his car is the height of stupidity. Surely you said that only to stir some arguments up...?

Of course there are instances that the engine blows of it's own accord. There are other instances that a DNF is due to the driver overdriving his car. The breakages don't have to be limited to just the engine by the way. Also, you asked if Kimi should just 'slow down'..well, if his car cannot take his aggressive driving style, then he needs to tone it down. Bringing the car home is far better than leaving it in the kitty-litter.

Your credibility is in serious doubt right now. Perhaps you need to follow a less...cerebral...sport. :eusa_think: Perhaps follow some local saloon races and work your way up to F1....

I really couldnt give a monkeys about what you of all people think about my credibility, I've been following f1 long enough and discussing topics on here to know that I know F1.

I will accept that there is the possibility a driver can overdrive the engine - but saying kimi needs to tone it down is ridiculous. Kimi is trying to win races, and if that means going as fast as he can all race then thats what he will do, and should rightly expect the engine to last the race. Are you suggesting kimi should drive a few tenths slower a lap, finish 5th just to make sure that the engine holds out?

What do u mean by tone it down? This is motor racing!!!! I should also point out that all respectable f1 news sources (eg f1 racing magazine, f1.com, itv website) have never mentioned that kimi is damaging his engines, but have mentioned merc's lack of reliability many many times. I've only ever heard this rubbish from alonso supporters on totalf1, and now from you

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And as far as JV i really like(d) the guy!But i think the superlicence argument is not that good for him.We all remember how he wasn't able to slow down and hit RS in the back in the Aus Grand Prix and took off and a marshall was killed.

That's abit low.

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I really couldnt give a monkeys about what you of all people think about my credibility, I've been following f1 long enough and discussing topics on here to know that I know F1.

I will accept that there is the possibility a driver can overdrive the engine - but saying kimi needs to tone it down is ridiculous. Kimi is trying to win races, and if that means going as fast as he can all race then thats what he will do, and should rightly expect the engine to last the race. Are you suggesting kimi should drive a few tenths slower a lap, finish 5th just to make sure that the engine holds out?

What do u mean by tone it down? This is motor racing!!!! I should also point out that all respectable f1 news sources (eg f1 racing magazine, f1.com, itv website) have never mentioned that kimi is damaging his engines, but have mentioned merc's lack of reliability many many times. I've only ever heard this rubbish from alonso supporters on totalf1, and now from you

If needs be, then yes. Lets be clear: Formula 1 is about accumulating enough points to be declared champion. Only two drivers on the grid understand this and they are the only ones in the title hunt. All Kimi understands is go fast. That's all well and good, and certainly impressive, but useless to winning this 'game'. If you don't bring the car in for points, you will not win the championship.

Lets look at it another way: Alonso can effectively take 2nd place for the rest of the season and become champion. That, jems, is the real game. Today's F1 is about a points tally and not a race win. That, jems, is reality and until Kimi realizes that is how the game is played, he will always be merely a fast driver and not a champion.

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If needs be, then yes. Lets be clear: Formula 1 is about accumulating enough points to be declared champion. Only two drivers on the grid understand this and they are the only ones in the title hunt. All Kimi understands is go fast. That's all well and good, and certainly impressive, but useless to winning this 'game'. If you don't bring the car in for points, you will not win the championship.

Lets look at it another way: Alonso can effectively take 2nd place for the rest of the season and become champion. That, jems, is the real game. Today's F1 is about a points tally and not a race win. That, jems, is reality and until Kimi realizes that is how the game is played, he will always be merely a fast driver and not a champion.

I disagree (strongly). How will kimi know how fast he can go, without the engine breaking? How can kimi ever expect to fight for a title if he's deliberately driving slower than he's able to?

And the reason alonso is happy to finish 2nd is when he isnt physically able to beat the leader, not because he's deliberately losing.

Kimi needs to win races to fight for the title, alonso can settle for podiums cos he's already built up a big lead by winning races and his opponents having troubles.

I cant believe people are suggesting that drivers should drive within their own ability and deliberately lose a race. Alonso only slows down when he's got a clear lead and near the end of the race

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I disagree (strongly). How will kimi know how fast he can go, without the engine breaking? How can kimi ever expect to fight for a title if he's deliberately driving slower than he's able to?

And the reason alonso is happy to finish 2nd is when he isnt physically able to beat the leader, not because he's deliberately losing.

Kimi needs to win races to fight for the title, alonso can settle for podiums cos he's already built up a big lead by winning races and his opponents having troubles.

I cant believe people are suggesting that drivers should drive within their own ability and deliberately lose a race. Alonso only slows down when he's got a clear lead and near the end of the race

GP of Europe 05. KR could have gone in a change the flat spotted tyre and get 8 pts. He decided to go on and we know what happened

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GP of Europe 05. KR could have gone in a change the flat spotted tyre and get 8 pts. He decided to go on and we know what happened

Thats completely irrelevant, we're talking about engine failures

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Thats completely irrelevant, we're talking about engine failures

the comment is still relevant to the way Kimi drives and the lack of intelligence in his strategy.

Also it has to be said that theres no point going fast if you can't get to the end of the race.

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the comment is still relevant to the way Kimi drives and the lack of intelligence in his strategy.

Also it has to be said that theres no point going fast if you can't get to the end of the race.

Thats true for the euro gp of 2005 where he should really have pitted. But kimi cant be expected to know how hard to drive without breaking his engine. He's a racing driver so should race as hard as he can. Only back off when theres no need to push any more, like if he had a big lead or had no chance of catching the car ahead

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Thats true for the euro gp of 2005 where he should really have pitted. But kimi cant be expected to know how hard to drive without breaking his engine. He's a racing driver so should race as hard as he can. Only back off when theres no need to push any more, like if he had a big lead or had no chance of catching the car ahead

After some many years and some many comments...I now understand that you dont know the sport.

loosen time, loosen time...

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After some many years and some many comments...I now understand that you dont know the sport.

explain yourself? :eusa_think:

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explain yourself? :eusa_think:

Naaa...you can read all the post again...I

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what post? u havent posted your thoughts on this yet.

Ahhh :blink: I

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I have no idea what you're talking about :wacko:

yes I know

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GP of Europe 05. KR could have gone in a change the flat spotted tyre and get 8 pts. He decided to go on and we know what happened

a TEAM decision foxtrot, get it right please...

a see a rev limiter been set, Kimi knows it and so does the team, Kimi will ultimately drive to that limiter if it will cause him to win. Merc has to build a strong and reliable engine that MUST last for two races, they must also build an engine that last for 100% to the peak of that rev limiter, thats also their jobs. Everybody knows and understand this. They know their job, Kimi knows his job. He will not go slow because for the 100000 ****in goddamn time, he is a racer that competes with other individuals to ****in WIN. Please get that into your goddamn heads people, for all your knowledge of F1 Autumn, are you so blind to this!!!

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