DC Tells JB To Leave Honda

[Fed up 0]

News of the World/

"Jenson has got to works his rocks off trying to take the Honda team forward. If he believes Honda can become a winning team then he should stay. But if he has any doubts then he has to get himself out of there. He has got to be ruthless. There could be some good drives next season with Renault, Mclaren and Ferrari possibly having places free"

Watch this space guys

[Kay 0]

He doesn't need anyone else telling him... he changes his mind every year all by his lonesome.

[sevag00 0]

he must leave, instead of taking the team forward, he is taking the team backward, you'll see at the end of this season Rb will be better than him, he is just new to the team, and he is just getting used to the car.

[rodders47 2]

JB to FERRARI ????? never as long as his "place you shove it where the sun don't shine" is pointing towards the Tarmac

Bloody hell I think I won last Saturdays 27 Million dollar Lotto as well

[Autumnpuma 0]

Race-winners potentially available:

Kimi

JPM

Fisi

Trulli

What would Renault, McLaren or Ferrari have to gain by signing Button over one of these four men?

[ykickamoocow 0]

Race-winners potentially available:

Kimi

JPM

Fisi

Trulli

What would Renault, McLaren or Ferrari have to gain by signing Button over one of these four men?

You forgot both JV and DC. Their both on the drivers market and they have both won races.

[blueboots 0]

You forgot both JV and DC. Their both on the drivers market and they have both won races.

Well I think guys like Trulli, Fisi and JPM have lost their market value dramatically.

Fisi, he's winging, slow, queen.

JPM, is just too erratic for any frontline team. These days you need to get both cars to the finish to win championships.

Trulli, I don't know whats going on with trulli, but he's slow in the races and fast in quali.

JV and DC ...they are certainly consistent, experienced race winners, but they are getting old, simple as that.

[Machi 0]

Trulli hasn't scored any points for the last 11 races. Who cares he once won a race, that doesn't make him a better driver as Button.

[Red Wings 0]

Trulli hasn't scored any points for the last 11 races. Who cares he once won a race, that doesn't make him a better driver as Button.

To keep his worth, Button needs to perform - period

[sevag00 0]

Well I think guys like Trulli, Fisi and JPM have lost their market value dramatically.

Fisi, he's winging, slow, queen.

JPM, is just too erratic for any frontline team. These days you need to get both cars to the finish to win championships.

Trulli, I don't know whats going on with trulli, but he's slow in the races and fast in quali.

JV and DC ...they are certainly consistent, experienced race winners, but they are getting old, simple as that.

i totally agree with you

[Fed up 0]

Further quotes/

"I certainly think I got a better chance of adding to my 13 career wins before Jenson gets his first. Unfortunatley JB is as far away from that first win now than he has ever been. He was only 11th in Monaco and, looking at his race pace, that win is a long way away. But it is not his fault. He is a great driver - its just that Honda have not given him a car capable of winning races

You can talk and talk but all that counts is what you do when you turn up on a Sunday to race"

Given that DC is one of JB's best friends in F1, I'm sure these comments will not be new to JB.

[Kay 0]

Race-winners potentially available:

Kimi

JPM

Fisi

Trulli

What would Renault, McLaren or Ferrari have to gain by signing Button over one of these four men?

Kimi's the only one there with such an advantage that you wouldn't think before signing him. JPM beaten by Kimi, Fisi beaten by Alonso, Trulli... well being Trulli (sorry).

By signing Button over Trulli, you will certainly gain more talent, as Button beat Trulli when neither was a rookie, so I have no idea why he is on the list, he's even one of the biggest bets for retirement this year according to some of the news sites.

[cavallino 2]

Fisi beat Button

[Kay 0]

Fisi beat Button

Did I say any different?

In fact, Button's beaten a proven WDC, by a much larger margin than Fisi beat him, when neither was a rookie.

[cavallino 2]

Did I say any different?

No, but you failed to mention it - it's about as relevant today as Button beating Trulli in '02 i.e. not much. Trulli was good last year, I still wouldn't sign a rookie over him. Button wasn't a rookie in 2001 either.

[Kay 0]

No, but you failed to mention it - it's about as relevant today as Button beating Trulli in '02 i.e. not much. Trulli was good last year, I still wouldn't sign a rookie over him. Button wasn't a rookie in 2001 either.

It is highly relevant, you can compare drivers to a certain extent who have been in the same team, yes there are flaws, but much less so then taking all drivers based on what they've achieved.

He was in his second season and most agree the first two seasons are the hardest. I failed to mention it because like elsewhere I've recently worked something out and was going to start a thread on it, but I'll post it in this one instead.

Button vs ALL his team mates

2006

Button - 16

Barrichello - 13

2005

Button - 37

Sato - 1

2004

Button - 85

Sato - 34

2003

Button - 17

Villeneuve - 6

Sato - 3

2002

Button - 14

Trulli - 9

2001

Button - 2

Fisichella - 8

2000

Button - 12

Ralf - 24

Teammates: 98

Button: 183

-----

Now switching to the new system of points to compare it all fairly.

2000

Button / Ralf

Australia: 0pts (Retired) / 6pts (3rd)

Brazil: 3pts (6th) / 4pts (5th)

San Marino: 0pts (Retired) / 0pts (Retired)

Britain: 4pts (5th) / 5pts (4th)

Spain: 0pts (Retired) / 5pts (4th)

Europe: 0pts (10th) / 0pts (Retired)

Monaco: 0pts (Retired) / 0pts (Retired)

Canada: 0pts (11th) / 0pts (Retired)

France: 1pt (8th) / 4pts (5th)

Austria: 4pts (5th) / 0pts (Retired)

Germany: 5pts (4th) / 2pts (7th)

Hungary: 1pt (8th) / 4pts (5th)

Belgium 4pts (5th) / 6pts (3rd)

Italy: 0pts (Retired) / 6pts (3rd)

United States: 0pts (Retired) / 0pts (Retired)

Japan: 4pts (5th) / 0pts (Retired)

Malaysia: 0pts (Retired) / 0pts (Retired)

Ralf: 42

Button: 26

2001

Race -Jenson Button / Giancarlo Fisichella

AUSTRALIA 0pts (Retired) / 0pts (13th)

MALAYSIA 0pts (11th)/ 0pts (Retired)

BRAZIL 0pts (Retired) / 3pts (6th)

SAN MARINO 0pts (13th) / 0pts (Retired)

SPAIN 0pts (15th) / 0pts (14th)

AUSTRIA 0pts (Retired) / 0pts (Retired)

MONACO 2pts (7th) / 0pts (Retired)

CANADA 0pts (Retired) / 0pts (Retired)

EUROPE 0pts (13th) / 0pts (11th)

FRANCE (Retired) / 0pts (11th)

BRITAIN 0pts (15th) / 0pts (13th)

GERMANY 4pts (5th) / 5pts (4th)

HUNGARY 0pts (Retired) / 0pts (Retired)

BELGIUM 0pts (Retired) / 6pts (3rd)

ITALY (Retired) / 0pts (10th)

UNITED STATES 1pt (8th) / 2pts (7th)

JAPAN 2pts (7th) / 0pts (Retired)

Fisi: 16pts

Button: 9pts

2002

Button / Trulli

Melbourne: 0pts (Retired) / 0pts (Retired)

Malaysia: 5pts (4th) / 0pts (Retired)

Brazil: 5pts (4th) / 0pts (Retired)

San Marino: 4pts (5th) / 0pts (9th)

Spain: 0pts (Retired) / 0pts (Retired)

Austria: 2pts (7th) / 0pts (Retired)

Monaco: 0pts (Retired) / 5pts (4th)

Canada: 0pts (Retired) / 3pts (6th)

Europe: 4pts (5th) / 1pt (8th)

Britain: 0pts (Retired) / 0pts (Retired)

France: 3pts (6th) / 0pts (Retired)

German: 0pts (Retired) / 0pts (Retired)

Hungary: 0pts (Retired) / 1pt (8th)

Belgium: 0pts (Retired) / 0pts (Retired)

Italy: 4pts (5th) / 5pts (4th)

United States: 1pt (8th) / 4pts (5th)

Japan: 3pts (6th) / 0pts (Retired)

Trulli: 19

Button: 31

It is worth noting that if his (BMW)engines had kept going Button would have scored a point in each of his first five F1 races. And if that has not stuffed the point down the throat of his pre-season critics nothing will.

Teammates: 134 (+36)

Button: 221 (+38)

So Button beat Trulli by a similar margin that Fisi & Ralf beat him. While Button doubled that margin when partnering Sato. Many say he was destroyed by Fisi? Never heard anyone saying Trulli was destroyed or Jacques.

---

Work them out so they're easier to compare:

Fisi - 32

Button - 18

Button - 31

Trulli - 19

Ralf - 31.5

Button 19.5

Button - 32

Jacques - 16

[KoolMonkey 0]

Well I think guys like Trulli, Fisi and JPM have lost their market value dramatically.

Fisi, he's winging, slow, queen.

JPM, is just too erratic for any frontline team. These days you need to get both cars to the finish to win championships.

Trulli, I don't know whats going on with trulli, but he's slow in the races and fast in quali.

JV and DC ...they are certainly consistent, experienced race winners, but they are getting old, simple as that.

You know Schumi's older than both of them, and yet you didn't mention him.

[cavallino 2]

It is highly relevant, you can compare drivers to a certain extent who have been in the same team, yes there are flaws, but much less so then taking all drivers based on what they've achieved.

But you run into problems if you go that far back - Trulli matched if not beat Alonso at Renault after that, so a Trulli supporter would claim that he improved as a driver after that, that is performances against Alonso makes the earlier performance irrelevant. There is only so far you can go with that - after about 2-3 years, it becomes mostly academic. Remember Trulli was on for a podium at Monaco. Klien was ahead of DC - if something as recent as that is so ambiguous, there isn't much you can prove with statistics that are that old.

[ykickamoocow 0]

You know Schumi's older than both of them, and yet you didn't mention him.

He is not being mentioned because he isnt on the drivers market. Two things could happen with MS next season. 1. He retires 2. He signs up for another season for Ferrari.

[Kay 0]

But you run into problems if you go that far back - Trulli matched if not beat Alonso at Renault after that, so a Trulli supporter would claim that he improved as a driver after that, that is performances against Alonso makes the earlier performance irrelevant. There is only so far you can go with that - after about 2-3 years, it becomes mostly academic. Remember Trulli was on for a podium at Monaco. Klien was ahead of DC - if something as recent as that is so ambiguous, there isn't much you can prove with statistics that are that old.

I said it was flawed, but it is the best thing we have. I do believe Button is better than Trulli over a race distance, but Trulli is better over one lap. If you take into account several other factors it also does help to explain some things a bit more. i.e. how long drivers have been in that team, through their career how quickly they set into a team etc etc, of course it is always flawed like with anything, but it paints a more accurate picture than simply who has won and who has not.

[cavallino 2]

But then you run into the Alonso beat Fisi beat Button beat Trulli beat Alonso problem. I too think Button is better than Trulli, but 2002 really isn't that much of a factor in that for me.

[Kay 0]

Not if you include who was there longest.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Excellent posts, Kay

I didn't put DC on the list because it's highly likely he's staying at RBR. JV will be staying at BMW.

[Kay 0]

Thanks.

I think it is interesting to see things all in the same points system, strange how much of a difference it makes really.

[nojvnof1 0]

"I certainly think I got a better chance of adding to my 13 career wins before Jenson gets his first."

One of DC's best quotes, but not all that odd when viewed in the context of it all. Honda doesn't look close to scoring consistent podiums, let alone win, and there is nothing on the horizon indicating it will change. RBR on the other hand have Adrian Newey who should help RBR rocket up the grid. Combined with the experienced and consistent hands of DC and possibly Cosworth engines (I believe RBR will go to Cosworth V8 next year, but just a guess), then DC could very well score win number 14 before JB scores number 1.

However as DC said, it really doesn't come down to JB's talent or anything. It's all about timing and being at the right place at the right time, as many other drivers can attest to. I think JB will stay at Honda though, he really doesn't need another contract saga to deal with.