6-3 To Alonso

[Jem of the Shire 0]

true but I have never heard them criticize Renault for it.

yeah and they havent criticised ferrar either so what is cav's problem

[monza gorilla 1]

AARRGGH! Never mind, Cav, we will never agree on this in a month of Sundays so let's call it quits before we both have a brain haemorrhage!

[cavallino 2]

done

[Kay 0]

In recent years I mean, it's quite hard. Either theteammate is really bad (Ide) or be in a state like Barrichello was earlier this year. Basically you need a fair gap in laptimes to manage it.

I believe in that race both drivers overtook each other, so that crushes that theory.

Actually the Midlands overtake one another quite a lot.

[cavallino 2]

The Midlands keep screwing up.

Let me clarify - you cannot overtake your teammate in F1 if you are not at that point substantially faster than his (say at least 1-1.5 seconds/ lap) and if he doesn't make a mistake. That kind of difference between teammates is rare.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Let me clarify - you cannot overtake your teammate in F1 if you are not at that point substantially faster than his (say at least 1-1.5 seconds/ lap) and if he doesn't make a mistake. That kind of difference between teammates is rare.

Well that goes for all drivers not just team-mates, you usually need to have a hefty performance advantage or to be much better under braking

[cavallino 2]

Teammates rarely have that hefty performance advantage.

As for Fisi's advantage:

"The planned development path of the RS26 called for an evolution to be introduced at race 11 in Magny-Cours. Giancarlo had a fresh unit built to 'C' specification for race 10, but its use was not as aggressive as it will be at race 11 because final approval for the unit is still pending our testing this week in Jerez. Both drivers will therefore have a full C-spec evolution and the associated performance gain available at our home race in France.

So Fisi had a detuned new spec engine.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_new...es_art_id=28598

[Kay 0]

The Midlands keep screwing up.

Let me clarify - you cannot overtake your teammate in F1 if you are not at that point substantially faster than his (say at least 1-1.5 seconds/ lap) and if he doesn't make a mistake. That kind of difference between teammates is rare.

How come then the same team mates overtake each other in one race? Surely only one team mate could do so and no neither made a "mistake" and the pass we saw on tv between the Midland was due to no mistake.

[cavallino 2]

If both teammates are driving at almost the same pace (as the Midlands usually are) how can they ovetake each other without one of them making a mistake?

[Wez 0]

As we say in my country, dreaming is free

Yes, Ferrari had a once off good race because the Michelins were complete rubbish... (The fact that even the Toyota's were quick shows this).

Fissi beating Alonso is also no big deal... Fissi had new spec Renault engine, Alonso had a old spec used engine from Canda.

Alonso still in control, dont worry

[Kay 0]

If both teammates are driving at almost the same pace (as the Midlands usually are) how can they ovetake each other without one of them making a mistake?

Good tow and get them under braking.

[cavallino 2]

You saw Fisi try it on the longest(?) straight in F1, it wasn't enough.

[Player(1) 0]

Brundle knows alot more then you or I do but he made a snap comment about a high camera angle, later when there was an onboard view from Fisi and he said Alonso didnt make it hard for him this time.....as we saw on the previous lap's Alonso cut across and defended but this time he kept to the left, Fisi was always faster down the straight so lifting was completely unnessicary.

"Renault expects a major engine upgrade" Fisi already having that major engine upgrade is likely to have helped. Before you even say it, yes it wasent operating at maximium performance but who says the resticted one would have the exact performance of the old spec? most likely would still perform better and the drivers can safely turn up the performance for short times....Honda actually has it in a "push to pass" button form and they have a certain numbers of time they can use it each engine life either with the extra wear built in or without over stressing it.

[Kay 0]

You saw Fisi try it on the longest(?) straight in F1, it wasn't enough.

Well for other drivers it is enough hence why they overtake them and then later get overtaken. You saw how Button managed Turn 1 much better in Bahrain, so didn't need such a speed advantage to overtake.

[cavallino 2]

Brundle knows alot more then you or I do but he made a snap comment about a high camera angle, later when there was an onboard view from Fisi and he said Alonso didnt make it hard for him this time.....as we saw on the previous lap's Alonso cut across and defended but this time he kept to the left, Fisi was always faster down the straight so lifting was completely unnessicary.

I have the video. Alonso lifted, Fisichella just went around him. Earlier he didn't even have the chance to outbrake Alonso while staying on the inside. When he went past, he went around and had time to take the outside line again and take the proper line into the first corner.

Kay - I don't remember Button in Bahrain and I don't have a video so I won't argue that one.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Alonso's lack of pace in comparison to Fisi was down to three issues:

1) Fisi had the new spec engine. Regardless of what the official team press release had to say, Alonso was asked on the grid by Peter Windsor why Fisi was ahead of him and Alonso said he [Fisi] had the new spec engine.

2) Inability to find the correct set-up. This happens to all drivers. The reason he couldn't find a good set-up is tied into reason 3 below.

3) Indy just isn't a track Alonso does well at--He knows this and it's why Indy was one of three tracks he wanted to win at this year. Call this superstitious nonsense if you like, but it's the truth. I don't have an answer for it, but I can see the truth of it.

As for Alonso lifting (or not)...who cares? That's teamwork and has always been (and always will be) part of racing.

[tifosi too! 0]

Alonso's lack of pace in comparison to Fisi was down to three issues:

1) Fisi had the new spec engine. Regardless of what the official team press release had to say, Alonso was asked on the grid by Peter Windsor why Fisi was ahead of him and Alonso said he [Fisi] had the new spec engine.

2) Inability to find the correct set-up. This happens to all drivers. The reason he couldn't find a good set-up is tied into reason 3 below.

3) Indy just isn't a track Alonso does well at--He knows this and it's why Indy was one of three tracks he wanted to win at this year. Call this superstitious nonsense if you like, but it's the truth. I don't have an answer for it, but I can see the truth of it.

As for Alonso lifting (or not)...who cares? That's teamwork and has always been (and always will be) part of racing.

Here's another perspective...Did anyone felt during the race that if someone would swap the names on the Renaults GF would look like FA and vice-versa?Fisi was strong and staying as close as possible while FA was falling prey to everyone and had JPM not taken all the quick cars out in lap 1 FA would look like a RBR driver.It was as if FA was driving the car GF was driving for most of the other races, the "bad Renault" JT warned GF about .Just a random thought...

[cavallino 2]

1) Fisi had the new spec engine. Regardless of what the official team press release had to say, Alonso was asked on the grid by Peter Windsor why Fisi was ahead of him and Alonso said he [Fisi] had the new spec engine.

The last person you should ask is the driver himself. The race must have hurt his ego though

Fisichella was right up there in Canada too, and probably could have in Silverstone. We don't have Spa this year, Fisi loves that too.

Fisi would be one of the drivers to watch in the post TC era in 2008.

Ps: Am I the only one who thinks that Fisi was told to hold station when they realised that the Ferraris were untouchable, and they let Fisi through too late to challenge them? They only told him to push when they realised that Trulli was getting uncomfortably close and Alonso was nowhere, until then a swap was planned.

The laptmies do seem to bear that out , Fisi pulled away, then seemed to get stuck after the first pit stop, then again pulled away before his second stop and managed to stay ahead of Trulli. After that ofcourse it was too late.

lap times: http://www.f1matrix.it/gp_2006_eng/10/pc.html

[Autumnpuma 0]

I would expect ego-saving comments to come after the race, not before. Alonso was confident he'd be ahead of Fisi in the race. Alonso would know what engine spec he and Fisi was running. The team press release after the race seemed more contrived than did Alonso's frank comments...

I see your second point, Cav...I think Renault thought that Alonso would be ahead as well and gave him a few too many laps to get there. When it became apparent that Fisi had the faster car, Alonso let him by...but by that time it was too late to challenge.

Finally, I know you favor Fisi, but he really isn't in the same league as Michael, Kimi or Alonso. I'd rank him with Button, Rubens and JPM, just slightly ahead of Trulli and the bunch.

[cavallino 2]

The ego saving comments came before the race because Alonso knew he wouldn't be ahead in the race, his start was rather fortuitious. I doubt if he would have finished ahead even if Renault had let their drivers fight.

I know Fisi isn't in the top league and I don't pretend he is, I remain a fan however

[Wez 0]

Alonso's lack of pace in comparison to Fisi was down to three issues:

1) Fisi had the new spec engine. Regardless of what the official team press release had to say, Alonso was asked on the grid by Peter Windsor why Fisi was ahead of him and Alonso said he [Fisi] had the new spec engine.

2) Inability to find the correct set-up. This happens to all drivers. The reason he couldn't find a good set-up is tied into reason 3 below.

3) Indy just isn't a track Alonso does well at--He knows this and it's why Indy was one of three tracks he wanted to win at this year. Call this superstitious nonsense if you like, but it's the truth. I don't have an answer for it, but I can see the truth of it.

YES, also Alonso was on his second race on that particular engine. A engine is several horsepower down on the second race.

We wil see next race!

As for Alonso lifting (or not)...who cares? That's teamwork and has always been (and always will be) part of racing.

Ferrari made Massa slow down on his in lap, both Renault & Ferrari would have been stupid not to make the switches.

[ykickamoocow 0]

YES, also Alonso was on his second race on that particular engine. A engine is several horsepower down on the second race.

We wil see next race!

I read somewhere that GF had a engine upgrade for the USGP. It apparently has a extra 30 hp than the engine Alonso was using and is worth about 0.2 seconds a lap.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

i think we've seen this year and last that having a new engine doesnt actually make much difference at all. I'm happy for Fisichella who BEAT Alonso fair and square all weekend

[foxtrot023 0]

i think we've seen this year and last that having a new engine doesnt actually make much difference at all. I'm happy for Fisichella who BEAT Alonso fair and square all weekend

it does when the engine is a new spec one with over 20 additional CVs. But GF indeed beat Alonso this weekend, like Michael was beaten by Massa in Malaysia, like Rubens is beating Jenson the last races, etc, etc. As they say in Tennessee, even the sun shines in the dog

[Jem of the Shire 0]

it does when the engine is a new spec one with over 20 additional CVs. But GF indeed beat Alonso this weekend, like Michael was beaten by Massa in Malaysia, like Rubens is beating Jenson the last races, etc, etc. As they say in Tennessee, even the sun shines in the dog