Alonso Criticizes Team And Teammate Again

[Beco 0]

Alonso has said before races that second will do, look at his quotes from Imola this year, they wanted second, and got it, in the end they realised it was 2 points dropped, that conservative mentality cost them the victory.

i heard a famous driver say: (guess who lol)

'I WASN'T DESIGNED FOR COMING SECOND'

obviously by statements made my Nando, he is, and i am no fool to think anything, iam just saying it how i see it.

why do people say Fernando=SUERTE?????

Also why is it on his own propaganda wikipedia site, they mention the words conservative and driving style in the same sentence? hmmm go figure

anyway Fernando for me has not engaged in any wheel to wheel racing especially when the 'title' was on the line last year, and this season he has again failed to impress me in that respect, his driving style and philosophy for me is conservative, but i'm not knocking it, Prost was also conservative, they will never be remember as wheel to wheel racers, but Prost got 4 titles, fernando sits with one (thus far).

I just am old school, in that respect i was rasied on drivers socking it to all of sundry, where wheels have touched and all that jazz

well i am no fool, but it seems ignorance is bliss for you

right i'm off for the time being, haven't even taken my lunch yet

[Player(1) 0]

Driving until the wheel's fall off isent Alonso's style no...that's why he's a WDC. They change the point's back and he'll adapt to take full advantage of that system....it's the nature of F1!

If you don't like driver's being that intelligent then F1 isent for you because it's not about raw speed, it's about controlling you're race and getting the most you can within the rule's.

it's not na$car

[Beco 0]

Driving until the wheel's fall off isent Alonso's style no...that's why he's a WDC. They change the point's back and he'll adapt to take full advantage of that system....it's the nature of F1!

If you don't like driver's being that intelligent then F1 isent for you because it's not about raw speed, it's about controlling you're race and getting the most you can within the rule's.

it's not na$car

LOL sorry i almost chocked on my snadwich reading this post, firstly, Obrigado, for waiting till i returned back into the office to reply, secondly, did i say there was anything wrong with intelligence?

NOPE!!!!

i think you misunderstand, i say Fernando is a CONSERVATIVE driver, i never said he was (or wasn't) intelligent, because quite frankely, Prost seemed more intelligent to me then Nando anyway (thats a side point)

I said i do not LIKE his driving conservative style, when i talk about intelligence then your post seems relevant, until then, your post is way off the mark.

BTW F1 is all about OVERTAKING, maybe you haven't been watching it as long as i have, so you are used to this formula bore, but f1 has always been about racing whether it was wheel to wheel or not, and about technological adavnces in the sport.

The likes of Gilles, Ronnie, Keke, Mansell, Senna, they all were racers, they did wheel to wheel (majority of the time cleanly), and F1 was reverd for being more exciting, why is it now that we hear f1 is boring, no overtaking? because the new rules such as the point scoring and certain drivers do not engage in racing, thats the truth.

F1 is for me, you are in no position to tell me otherwise.

I actually (for the record) said i don't knock this conservatism, it has worked for Prost, i just don't like it.

as for maybe Nascar is for me, well more 'fool'you, you have no idea about formula one then, if you think i'm wrong to expect racing.

[Player(1) 0]

i think you misunderstand, i say Fernando is a CONSERVATIVE driver

He does what it take's to win but dosent get caught up with unnessacry risk's (entertaining as it may be for the coach jocky's with finger's crossed for big crashs ), that's just like Prost (who i prefare over Senna) and that's the brilliance of Alonso (which is entertaining to someone who understand's a driver point of view)

2005 Alonso secure's the WDC then turn's his attention to the WCC, however it require's raw speed to win it so he's taking the car to it's limit's making spectacular overtaking manourver's to get places in Japan but the peformance advantage of about .5 of a second was still with McLaren until China when Alonso completely outpaced Kimi and doing the majority of the work to secure Renault as WCC. Alonso isent stupid enough to get into a position to be chasing point's but if he somehow is you'll see him go all out.

You want to see 2 car's of the same performance overtaking? sad truth is unless there's a big mistake the only possible way is through the pit's on nearly every track.

[tifosi too! 0]

Ii think this current points system sucks, to be honest Alonso has exploited it very well, it encourages more of a conservative approach to racing.

i also never liked the old 'count back' system either

we need to revert to the old scoring system, then we will really see how the conservative likes of Fernando can handle pressure

Wow we actually agree here!I 've been saying that for months.Give the 2nd driver 4-5 points instead of 8 and let the WDC catch fire...

[Beco 0]

He does what it take's to win but dosent get caught up with unnessacry risk's (entertaining as it may be for the coach jocky's with finger's crossed for big crashs ), that's just like Prost (who i prefare over Senna) and that's the brilliance of Alonso (which is entertaining to someone who understand's a driver point of view)

2005 Alonso secure's the WDC then turn's his attention to the WCC, however it require's raw speed to win it so he's taking the car to it's limit's making spectacular overtaking manourver's to get places in Japan but the peformance advantage of about .5 of a second was still with McLaren until China when Alonso completely outpaced Kimi and doing the majority of the work to secure Renault as WCC. Alonso isent stupid enough to get into a position to be chasing point's but if he somehow is you'll see him go all out.

You want to see 2 car's of the same performance overtaking? sad truth is unless there's a big mistake the only possible way is through the pit's on nearly every track.

oh so is this your round about way of admitting you were wrong to talk intelligence when i was talking about racing philosophy's?

anyway i think you still futher misunderstand, i do not like conservative driving, but i said i don't knock it, because if the means justify the ends and all, but not expect an old fool like me to be happy about this new 'trend' in f1, because F1 has lost its roots.

also a driver can over take without touching wheels, in fact i have seen numerous times drivers overtaking, without no contact and it being spectacular, for example Spa 2000 Mika taking MS and Zonda in one move, thats overtaking, that was what got us fans on our feet, not waiting for a drivers car to go BANG!!! or to just pin your hopes on passing in the pits, thats not racing and thats not what F1's true philosophy stood for, call me a romantic fool.

as for un-necessary risks, well thats aload of old bollox, OVERTAKING someone is NOT a risk in F1 (unless its MS, because lets be honest he is a dirty b#####d), its whats expected, oh well not with you i take it.

As for you prefering Prost to Senna, oh thats cool, Blatrese was in his back pocket enough said!!!!!!

Senna is regarded as the best (aain subjective), because his racing philosophy appealed to more fans, because he actually raced.

but forget Senna v Prost, thats finished, Senna blitzed him, and there is no contest there.

As for Nando, people talk about Japan, and i just say, HAHAHA it was after his own title was over, he started in front of Kimi and ended up third, kimi went from 18th to FIRST enough said, and all the driver accolades went to Kimi Raikkonen in 2005, alonso's wikipedia site uses words like conservative driving style, adn even on Nando's page they say people argue kimi was the better driver, ironic LOL

Kimi's driving philosophy to me is more appealing, even MS is, like Senna's was, except i don't like the dirty tactics by the latter two.

F1 is NOW a bore, and drivers like alonso thrieve in this climate

Wow we actually agree here!I 've been saying that for months.Give the 2nd driver 4-5 points instead of 8 and let the WDC catch fire...

wow that is a shock

Drivers like Alonso will always thrieve in a climate which allows the conservative philosophy to prosper.

[tifosi too! 0]

oh so is this your round about way of admitting you were wrong to talk intelligence when i was talking about racing philosophy's?

anyway i think you still futher misunderstand, i do not like conservative driving, but i said i don't knock it, because if the means justify the ends and all, but not expect an old fool like me to be happy about this new 'trend' in f1, because F1 has lost its roots.

also a driver can over take without touching wheels, in fact i have seen numerous times drivers overtaking, without no contact and it being spectacular, for example Spa 2000 Mika taking MS and Zonda in one move, thats overtaking, that was what got us fans on our feet, not waiting for a drivers car to go BANG!!! or to just pin your hopes on passing in the pits, thats not racing and thats not what F1's true philosophy stood for, call me a romantic fool.

as for un-necessary risks, well thats aload of old bollox, OVERTAKING someone is NOT a risk in F1 (unless its MS, because lets be honest he is a dirty b#####d), its whats expected, oh well not with you i take it.

As for you prefering Prost to Senna, oh thats cool, Blatrese was in his back pocket enough said!!!!!!

Senna is regarded as the best (aain subjective), because his racing philosophy appealed to more fans, because he actually raced.

but forget Senna v Prost, thats finished, Senna blitzed him, and there is no contest there.

As for Nando, people talk about Japan, and i just say, HAHAHA it was after his own title was over, he started in front of Kimi and ended up third, kimi went from 18th to FIRST enough said, and all the driver accolades went to Kimi Raikkonen in 2005, alonso's wikipedia site uses words like conservative driving style, adn even on Nando's page they say people argue kimi was the better driver, ironic LOL

Kimi's driving philosophy to me is more appealing, even MS is, like Senna's was, except i don't like the dirty tactics by the latter two.

F1 is NOW a bore, and drivers like alonso thrieve in this climate

wow that is a shock

Drivers like Alonso will always thrieve in a climate which allows the conservative philosophy to prosper.

You do have a thing for long posts .Of course i don't agree with most of the things you said but i don't know where to start !!If you 've been watching F1 long enough(obviously you have) you know very well that when MS retires, the sport will also lose a racing generation which carries the principles of F1 as we all loved it.The spirit of that generation in which AS was king is with MS these days.The grid has exceptional drivers that are only as fast as their car.Very few are true fighters and in that way i rate KR higher than FA.Like you i really hate conservative driving.MS is the kind of driver that can change things and make a race unpredictable if he is still in it, whether you like it or not.Actually he and AS have a lot in common, with absolute commitment and determination to win to start with.

[Beco 0]

You do have a thing for long posts .Of course i don't agree with most of the things you said but i don't know where to start !!If you 've been watching F1 long enough(obviously you have) you know very well that when MS retires, the sport will also lose a racing generation which carries the principles of F1 as we all loved it.The spirit of that generation in which AS was king is with MS these days.The grid has exceptional drivers that are only as fast as their car.Very few are true fighters and in that way i rate KR higher than FA.Like you i really hate conservative driving.MS is the kind of driver that can change things and make a race unpredictable if he is still in it, whether you like it or not.Actually he and AS have a lot in common, with absolute commitment and determination to win to start with.

long posts, sorry, i will shorten them for people if that makes it easier?

oh well we agree (again) that Fernando is conservative in driving style, we both agree (again) on Kimi being more our cup of tea.

We also agree that MS and Senna are similar, both done a few suspect things in their time, both had the contract vetoes, both had this unbelieveable desire to succeed at aLL costs, and i agree F1 will lose something when MS goes, because quite simply we will never see another MS like we will see another senna (no smart arse bruno comments please lol)

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

He does what it take's to win but dosent get caught up with unnessacry risk's (entertaining as it may be for the coach jocky's with finger's crossed for big crashs ), that's just like Prost (who i prefare over Senna) and that's the brilliance of Alonso (which is entertaining to someone who understand's a driver point of view)

2005 Alonso secure's the WDC then turn's his attention to the WCC, however it require's raw speed to win it so he's taking the car to it's limit's making spectacular overtaking manourver's to get places in Japan but the peformance advantage of about .5 of a second was still with McLaren until China when Alonso completely outpaced Kimi and doing the majority of the work to secure Renault as WCC. Alonso isent stupid enough to get into a position to be chasing point's but if he somehow is you'll see him go all out.

You want to see 2 car's of the same performance overtaking? sad truth is unless there's a big mistake the only possible way is through the pit's on nearly every track.

Well, this year he has to beat MS, which means, fast AND reliable car. It is not just enough to drive 60 laps and finish, he will probably also have to RACE to beat Schumacher. So that 'brilliant' driving style isn't just enought this time.

[Beco 0]

Well, this year he has to beat MS, which means, fast AND reliable car. It is not just enough to drive 60 laps and finish, he will probably also have to RACE to beat Schumacher. So that 'brilliant' driving style isn't just enought this time.

just out of curiosity, are you wanting to see MS beat alonso?

because i know a few apparently hardcore 'williams and Mclaren' fans that are willing on Ms, just because they didn't think alonso was worthy of his crown, and to be brute, don't like his driving style.

i dislike alonso's driving philosophy, but you wont catch me cheering on Ms or Ferrari

[tifosi too! 0]

long posts, sorry, i will shorten them for people if that makes it easier?

oh well we agree (again) that Fernando is conservative in driving style, we both agree (again) on Kimi being more our cup of tea.

We also agree that MS and Senna are similar, both done a few suspect things in their time, both had the contract vetoes, both had this unbelieveable desire to succeed at aLL costs, and i agree F1 will lose something when MS goes, because quite simply we will never see another MS like we will see another senna (no smart arse bruno comments please lol)

Actually i'm eager to see Bruno coming to F1(if he is good enough!!).I read somewhere that AS once said to his mechanics that if they thought he was a good driver, they should wait and see his nephew(Bruno) .I don't know what is he doing right now but i'm very curious!!

[Beco 0]

Actually i'm eager to see Bruno coming to F1(if he is good enough!!).I read somewhere that AS once said to his mechanics that if they thought he was a good driver, they should wait and see his nephew(Bruno) .I don't know what is he doing right now but i'm very curious!!

correct he did say that, and that was my old msn name

oh as for what is he up to, well he is in f3 as we all know, he is driving the double R, Raikkonen and Roberts car, merc powered and at one point looked odds on to take the title easily, but then enter around the Mondello park , and to be honets it goes bell up from there despite getting a victroy, the round before he lost a real good lead to Mike Conway and hasn't caught him (still/yet?), oh and please lets not mention Snetterton

I'm still ragin at that imbecile Salvador Duran.

Conway looks good for the title again he is in a Double R, Senna went from leading the championship, to being behind Conway and Jarvis, who is Honda btw

for the record i think the death of AS and his father two years after that, hindered his actual development of talent, he is still young, but he has only been racing two years now, and as Gerherd commented, that did some what slow down his progress.

Lets just say his rise into f1 (which will happen) has been stop start for a decade now

[monza gorilla 1]

Let's just hope he's not another Christian Fittipaldi. An illustrious forebear guarantees nothing. My judgement is reserved.

[Beco 0]

Let's just hope he's not another Christian Fittipaldi. An illustrious forebear guarantees nothing. My judgement is reserved.

lets hope he is not another Michael Andretti either, or a Mathia lauda (ok he is just hopeless and will never get into f1)

but he could be a JV, do that surname so proud

I think Nico will do his surname proud aswell.

well its 6.30pm, im off home, take care people

[Player(1) 0]

Alonso's championship summary:

Smaller budget

Alot less development

Slower car

Near Flawless driving

Applying pressure

Bigger brain

^ Winning a championship on those term's is alot more deserving then having a much faster car which is what Kimi would have done.

NOTE: SPA 2000 McLaren was much faster down the straight's then Ferrari, add the draft Mika was getting and the superior speed through Eau Rouge....Mika was gaining on MS like he had an extra gear which just back's up my point that you need a much faster car to overtake in F1. Give Alonso a car with that advantage and he wouldnt be behind the slower car's in the first place

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

just out of curiosity, are you wanting to see MS beat alonso?

because i know a few apparently hardcore 'williams and Mclaren' fans that are willing on Ms, just because they didn't think alonso was worthy of his crown, and to be brute, don't like his driving style.

i dislike alonso's driving philosophy, but you wont catch me cheering on Ms or Ferrari

I want to see good racing, that's all. i am sure, that this year Schumacher can force Alonso to really RACE for the victory. Ferrari is so reliable, that Alonso can't count on driving behind Michael in all peace. Then we will see, how much Alonso can take out of Renault in real all-or-nothing -situation.

Alonso's championship summary:

Smaller budget

Alot less development

Slower car

Near Flawless driving

Applying pressure

Bigger brain

^ Winning a championship on those term's is alot more deserving then having a much faster car which is what Kimi would have done.

that's not true. They had both fast cars. Renault probably even faster. Renault was just fast AND reliable. Sure Kimi was faster, but that was because of his driving, not car. Compare Montoya to Alonso, then you see the similarity in speed.

[narain fan 0]

. Renault was just fast AND reliable. Sure Kimi was faster, but that was because of his driving, not car. Compare Montoya to Alonso, then you see the similarity in speed.

all this "raikonnen" "driving" theory borders to unmitigated crap. you might aswell compare the no of engine failures JPM and KR had ,and say KR is the perennial car breaker.....

[Player(1) 0]

that's not true. They had both fast cars. Renault probably even faster. Renault was just fast AND reliable. Sure Kimi was faster, but that was because of his driving, not car. Compare Montoya to Alonso, then you see the similarity in speed.

Renault didnt change the car's spec's for more then half the races out of fear it could reduce reliability while the McLaren was undergoing massive development thanks to their big budget and superstar designer's which is why it leap frogged the Renault.

McLaren's nearest competator was Renault ofcourse but at more then 1 second a lap slower sometimes there wasent anything Alonso could do but finish in the point's, in Japan they threw on some development to the Renault but was still .5 of a second slower per lap until China came along and while Kimi was on his 2nd engine Alonso was able to get a special engine tuned purely for 1 race completely closing the performance gap.

The R25 was only faster then the mp4-20 until the 2nd version came out (mp4-20B?)

Montoya didnt seem to have much trouble keeping ahead or closely behind Kimi when he had the opportunity I noticed like in Brazil, certainly wasent the performance gap Alonso had/has to Fisi.

Closest car performance difference of Alonso and his competator in 2005 was China, in 2006 it's Bahrain so far. Tire performance being the biggest factor in 2006 making it intertesting since the two compound's have different characteristic's at different time's.

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

all this "raikonnen" "driving" theory borders to unmitigated crap. you might aswell compare the no of engine failures JPM and KR had ,and say KR is the perennial car breaker.....

nope. Car braking is not driver's fault. Driver's job is to drive faster than the others. That's why you can compare drivers' speeds but you can't count motorbreaks.

Renault didnt change the car's spec's for more then half the races out of fear it could reduce reliability while the McLaren was undergoing massive development thanks to their big budget and superstar designer's which is why it leap frogged the Renault.

have you ever heard of car development? It's more than just changing the specs...

The R25 was only faster then the mp4-20 until the 2nd version came out (mp4-20B?)

Montoya didnt seem to have much trouble keeping ahead or closely behind Kimi when he had the opportunity I noticed like in Brazil, certainly wasent the performance gap Alonso had/has to Fisi.

Are you sure we were watching same races???

[nojvnof1 0]

Karaoke night!!! I sang 'i believe in a thing called love' by the darkness (yep I can do the high notes) and had a good time, got home at about 1 (sober of course) and wife's alarm went off at 6am, nice

I'd have thought you'd perform a Westlife number

as for un-necessary risks, well thats aload of old bollox, OVERTAKING someone is NOT a risk in F1 (unless its MS, because lets be honest he is a dirty b#####d)

great stuff

for the record i think the death of AS and his father two years after that, hindered his actual development of talent, he is still young, but he has only been racing two years now, and as Gerherd commented, that did some what slow down his progress.

Lets just say his rise into f1 (which will happen) has been stop start for a decade now

Bruno was banned from racing by his family after Ayrton's death and didn't start racing again until '04 I think. I think he'll move to GP2 next year and I think he'd be in F1 already, or at least testing, if not for his 10 year absence from the sport. I'm following his F3 career closely as he's on a shortlist of drivers for me to follow after JV.

[cavallino 2]

Q: If the championship reaches it

[Autumnpuma 0]

Care to be consistent at least Mr. Alonso?

Indeed. Now we shall see if Fish and Massa truly help thier teammates to the title. I would expect Fish to let Fernando through and Massa to hold Alonso up. The seconds can still play a role, so I'm not sure why the hell Alonso made his comment....?

[Beco 0]

I'd have thought you'd perform a Westlife number

great stuff

Bruno was banned from racing by his family after Ayrton's death and didn't start racing again until '04 I think. I think he'll move to GP2 next year and I think he'd be in F1 already, or at least testing, if not for his 10 year absence from the sport. I'm following his F3 career closely as he's on a shortlist of drivers for me to follow after JV.

I'm glad you liked the MS bashing

as for bruno, he is quick to say viviene did not ban him, she just put forward a message (strongly) about her views on racing, and stressed if Bruno completed his education, there would be no problem with him racing, and under the guidance of Burger and Bernie (lord knows why -he only wants another star surname to milk money out of) he could continue which he did.

he has only been racing since 2004, hence i said only racing two years

GP2 no doubt is the logical step up, but Bruno has really got problems in f3, conway is strong, and in another double R car, he looks hard to beat, and after that 'roll' with Sal duran at Snerttdon, he is now back down in third, after looking like he was run away leader, but i have watched him since his debut season in F3, and there is no denying he has TALENT

[Beco 0]

Alonso's championship summary:

Smaller budget

Alot less development

Slower car

Near Flawless driving

Applying pressure

Bigger brain

^ Winning a championship on those term's is alot more deserving then having a much faster car which is what Kimi would have done.

NOTE: SPA 2000 McLaren was much faster down the straight's then Ferrari, add the draft Mika was getting and the superior speed through Eau Rouge....Mika was gaining on MS like he had an extra gear which just back's up my point that you need a much faster car to overtake in F1. Give Alonso a car with that advantage and he wouldnt be behind the slower car's in the first place

you know your summary of Alonso's championship, well I think you just described MS's Benneton CV also, except add to his OVERTAKING I understand that for an alonso fan, overtaking is an alein concept, and a rareity for you, and for the record was benneton especially in 1994 (even with all illegal gadgets) FASTER than Williams Renault? i think the answer is a resounding HELL NO, so that blows your theory (fastest car leads to overtaking) AGAIN out the window.

just coming back to your theory, go look at the 1993 season, williams renualt power(the beast in the f1 feildl) v mclaren-Ford(we lost honda), and Senna takes FIVE VICTORIES, and that actually included..................................................OVERTAKING, can you again tell me ford power was better than renault power?

conditions of tracks, temperatures, tyre choice and wear are all factors, don't just look at overtaking it terms of pure speed, just remember 1984 Toleman (senna) 'won' (screw you Baltrese) monaco and beat Prost, in the mclaren.

was toleman faster than mclaren? Senna actually stormed past everyone on that race track (by that i mean overtaking), and passed Prost, not because his car was faster, but because he was a better driver especially in the RAIN, and the conditions of the track played into his hands.

back to alonso, and less of my Senna worshipping

btw near flawless driving (2005)?

i wouldn't go that far, i think it should be near flawless reliability of the car, look at the ring and canada 2005 (and thats when there was some pressure applied)

He was never applied pressure on any particular rival in 2005, because he built up a lead, when the macca's were too busy going BANG every race, remember his team mate had also won at this point, Renault were having a feild day.

btw when kimi got into the title race seriously, kimi was applying the 'pressure' alonso was nearly 20(+) point ahead of Kimi, add to this Alonso benefited at least three times for a victory thanks to merc blow ups, and was happy to settle for second knowing a conservative driving style and the conservative points system will see him home.

for me alonso never really applied pressure (when kimi was in the thick of the title hunt) and never experienced any real pressure either, thats because macca's were blowing up every race out of sympathy.

oh and as for bigger brain, can you prove it? LOL

as for Spa 2000, LOL!!!

Alonso with a cars advantage and he wouldn't be behind the slower cars in the first place? odd

[narain fan 0]

all the examples u quote are 10 yrs old......

which is a different story alltogether vis-avis tyres etc...etc...