cavallino 2 Report post Posted August 5, 2006 It would be interesting to see if they did, as I can't remember anything other than a drive through in recent years for jumping the start. At least it proves a point on the rule book theory, same crime, different situation needs different penalties. A jump start is usually accidental, someone being too quick on the trigger. I am pretty sure the stewards can bump it up to a stop go, but usually a drive through would cost ~12 seconds minimum, negating any minor jump start advantage and more. An intentional jump start, say hlf a second early would probably get a stop go minimum. I do remember DC jumping a start intentionally once though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kay 0 Report post Posted August 5, 2006 A jump start is usually accidental, someone being too quick on the trigger. I am pretty sure the stewards can bump it up to a stop go, but usually a drive through would cost ~12 seconds minimum, negating any minor jump start advantage and more. An intentional jump start, say hlf a second early would probably get a stop go minimum.I do remember DC jumping a start intentionally once though Looks like there is no stop and go though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted August 5, 2006 no,chris goodwin answered a specific question (email) during the pre race show that this year there will be no "stop-go" only drive through penalty, I probably know more than Chris Goodwin by now. Anyway.. http://www.formula1.com/insight/rulesandregs/13/502.html Stewards have the power to impose various penalties on a driver if he commits an offence during a race. Offences may include jumping the start, causing an avoidable accident, unfairly blocking another driver, impeding another driver when being lapped, speeding in the pit lane etc.The two most common types are the drive-through penalty and the ten-second time penalty. In the case of the former, the driver must enter the pits, drive through the pit lane at the pit-lane speed limit and rejoin the race without stopping. Depending on the length of the pit lane this can cost a driver a significant amount of time. More severe is the ten-second time penalty (also commonly known as a stop-go penalty) where the driver must not only enter the pits, but must also stop for ten seconds at his pit before rejoining the race. During this time the driver Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kay 0 Report post Posted August 5, 2006 Within 3 laps of being notified it takes a few laps to confirm as we saw with Fisi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted August 5, 2006 Not if he does it the way you want him to. It's all a bit academic really, Alonso would be crazy to try anything, his launch system is good enough to get him 2-3 places anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raikkonen_dominates 0 Report post Posted August 5, 2006 No, no, this would be oversteer.... Well, I have understood Alonso is comfortable with oversteer, but not understeer... if FERNANDO goes for 1stop strategy...i think he has a good chance of being in top5 Is he taking some spare tyres with him to the track No, no, no! The front row will be red... Hungary is a difficult track to drive. This means that Kimi will beat at least Massa and Fisico. Michael with current Ferrari may be just too much even for him... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted August 6, 2006 Hungary is a difficult track to drive. This means that Kimi will beat at least Massa and Fisico. Michael with current Ferrari may be just too much even for him... Beat Kimi from 11th position, i think not Raikkonen_Dominates, what kinda Kimi fan are you anyway.... Kimi is too good to loose it from there, unless the weather plays a critical car with incidents of car accidents.... Oh, to the Alonso fans, your man's got a real challenge and now he can prove he's as good as you say he is, Alonso, do a Kimi or Shumie stint and win it from down there, just like the 2 drivers already did, in inferior cars.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UrKo 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2006 Beat Kimi from 11th position, i think not Raikkonen_Dominates, what kinda Kimi fan are you anyway.... Kimi has to make good start after that it s all in his hands Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiko01 0 Report post Posted August 6, 2006 Beat Kimi from 11th position, i think not Raikkonen_Dominates, what kinda Kimi fan are you anyway....Kimi is too good to loose it from there, unless the weather plays a critical car with incidents of car accidents.... Oh, to the Alonso fans, your man's got a real challenge and now he can prove he's as good as you say he is, Alonso, do a Kimi or Shumie stint and win it from down there, just like the 2 drivers already did, in inferior cars.... Well... Kimi and Fernando use the same tyres, do you know what i mean? Fernando trashed Kimi and Kimi has no excuses, what a pity... The Alonso fans are having good laughs reading all the crap you and your "coleagues" have writen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SchumiDeSuck 0 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 So where are all Fernando's fans? Ecap, Kiko etc? don't tell me you are all crying in your blankies now are you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 Well, I have understood Alonso is comfortable with oversteer, but not understeer... It was a joke. So, are any of the people who bashed Alonso's wet-weather driving ability going to show up and say 'well done, Fernando'? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blitzkrieg 0 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 This is my opinion, Michael, Kimi and Fernando have really made this race entertaining. You can't really say Kimi sucks at driving or is worse then Fernando, comparing both situations, Kimi had a slightly easy race then both Ferrari and Renault. I think he took this oppurtunity as granted and was paying more attention on his team-mate, now that doesn't show Kimi is a bad driver at all, that was a silly mistake and he payed attention elsewhere at the wrong time. So obviously, he wasn't concentrating on the race since he knew both Mclarens could get a 1-2 or 2-3. I mean, you can't really know what kind of problems all drivers face in the car, everybody fought today, Bridgestone tyres didnt work, but I don't blame them at all, they worked extremely well when it was dry (not surprising, since the prepare for dry weather) but today was just not their day. So as I said, everybody fought well, Michelin tyres worked extremely well and Fernando had a well-balanced car, I don't know about Kimi, Michael didn't have the perfect car, but still fought like a champion. So at the end of the day, I think all three drivers are great at what they do and Congratulations Jenson and all the Button/Honda fans, great job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 It was a joke.So, are any of the people who bashed Alonso's wet-weather driving ability going to show up and say 'well done, Fernando'? He did nothing, it was the car, or was he suddenly bad when he was losing 2 seconds lap to Button. Another reason to get rid of the tyre war, Alonso would be nowhere near Michael yesterday on the same tyres. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 He did nothing, it was the car, or was he suddenly bad when he was losing 2 seconds lap to Button.Another reason to get rid of the tyre war, Alonso would be nowhere near Michael yesterday on the same tyres. Indeed. It was the car. The same car in which Fisico took into the kitty-litter. I have it on good authority that Fernando was in fact asleep and the engineers on the pit wall were driving the car by remote control. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 So why was he losing 2 seconds a lap to Button. I'm not saying he didn't drive well, but so did many others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 So why was he losing 2 seconds a lap to Button. I'm not saying he didn't drive well, but so did many others. As you can see with Michael and Ferrari, when a car's tires fall off performance, there's little a driver can do to hold off a faster competitor. The Honda worked it's tires better than did the Renault. Also, Button was most likely lighter than Fernando (I think Button pitted shortly after those 'gaining' laps you mention...I honestly don't remember so perhaps you can clarify this?). All through the race today, Alonso blasted up through the grid, making daring passes and keeping his car so neat that one would have believed the race to be dry. Even a certain 8-time champion made more mistakes.... I was not concerned with other drivers in my post; only with Fernando. My point was: Would any Fernando-bashers appear to give the man credit for a fantastic drive up through the grid in the rain? It was just the sort of driving that some (ahem, Cav) had said would convince them Alonso was the real-deal. I am very disappointed in this forum. Because you brought up other drivers, here's my rundown: Button: The best drive I've seen from him in a long time. I was so happy for him I actually cheered when he crossed the line. A well-earned win. His pass on Mikey was classy, neat and tidy. Pedro: He justified my faith in him and proved my estimation of his talent and speed to be correct. Heidfeld: Another great drive. Kimi: Fantastic drive until he ran into the back of Klien. That was pathetic. Fisico: Speaking of pathetic, Fisico's only saving grace today was the dicing with Mikey. Massa: The boy is quick. The boy also needs more wet-weather practice. Alonso: Incredible outside passing. Speed: Our speedtv crew said he had courage for putting on drys. I agree. Hopefully he's learned his lesson about running in too quickly for drys. Kubica: If this is the quality of racer we get in lieu of JV, I'm almost glad of it. Excellent first race. Those are who caught my eye today. A bit off-topic, but whatever... EDIT: Please replace 'Klien' with 'Liuzzi' in the Kimi part.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blitzkrieg 0 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 As you can see with Michael and Ferrari, when a car's tires fall off performance, there's little a driver can do to hold off a faster competitor. Pardon? Are you blind? Michael had no grip and he fought like a champion, were you blind when he helded off PDR and others? or wait, youre going to say 'I paid little attention on that' right? Fernando had all the grip in the world and it was shown in the race and still couldn't fight with Button. Face it, Button drove like a winner today and was better then Alonso. He would've caught up with Alonso and given him a nice fight. Too bad, we couldn't see that. I was not concerned with other drivers in my post; only with Fernando. My point was: Would any Fernando-bashers appear to give the man credit for a fantastic drive up through the grid in the rain? It was just the sort of driving that some (ahem, Cav) had said would convince them Alonso was the real-deal. I'm a Michael fan and I take my hat off to Alonso, he drove very well today, but comparing your package to your opponent's package, you can see why he drove well. I mean, ofcourse, it's a tough job to do, he worked hard for it, but there were alot of drivers who drove well today, personally, I paid attention to each and every driver today and enjoyed the race. It's not fair to say, Fernando drove like a loser or Michael is a cheater or Kimi is just useless. Overall, everyone deserves credit at whatever they did, too bad they didnt finish the way they wanted to, but I enjoyed the race and so did everyone and that is what matters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 Pardon? Are you blind?Michael had no grip and he fought like a champion, were you blind when he helded off PDR and others? or wait, youre going to say 'I paid little attention on that' right? Fernando had all the grip in the world and it was shown in the race and still couldn't fight with Button. Face it, Button drove like a winner today and was better then Alonso. He would've caught up with Alonso and given him a nice fight. Too bad, we couldn't see that. What? My God, man, I said the same thing as you just did! I gave Button all due credit..who exactly is blind here? Are you following the conversation between Cav and me? I was comparing Button gaining on Alonso to everybody passing Herr Schumacher! It was down to tires. The Honda worked them less abusively than did the Renault. Also, Button was a bit lighter. What the hell is your problem that you didn't understand that? The tedium of dealing with half-wits is starting to get to me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blitzkrieg 0 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 What? My God, man, I said the same thing as you just did! I gave Button all due credit..who exactly is blind here? Are you following the conversation between Cav and me? I was comparing Button gaining on Alonso to everybody passing Herr Schumacher! It was down to tires. The Honda worked them less abusively than did the Renault. Also, Button was a bit lighter. What the hell is your problem that you didn't understand that?The tedium of dealing with half-wits is starting to get to me... Wasn't your point: "Would any Fernando-bashers appear to give the man credit for a fantastic drive up through the grid in the rain?" right? and that's what I did, I credited him for an excellent drive -- Wasn't that you wanted to see? and in your statement you said 'when the tires doesn't work, there's little a driver can do' and I disagree, because for sure, he did more then little. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cavallino 2 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 All through the race today, Alonso blasted up through the grid, making daring passes and keeping his car so neat that one would have believed the race to be dry. Even a certain 8-time champion made more mistakes.... All through the race? He got to the front courtesy of a faster car and stayed there until his retirement, his pass on Michael was made when Michael was 7 seconds a lap slower, it might look impressive but it wasn't. I was not concerned with other drivers in my post; only with Fernando. My point was: Would any Fernando-bashers appear to give the man credit for a fantastic drive up through the grid in the rain??? He was up to 6th at the start due to his starting system, then his teammate let him through, then he passed 2 handicapped Ferraris including Michael who held him for a while despite the masive disadvantage, and Mark Webber. Once in front he pushed for ward with his massive car advantage and stayed there.It was just the sort of driving that some (ahem, Cav) had said would convince them Alonso was the real-deal. Button drove as well as him. He isn't the real deal, why is Alonso. This was nowhere near any of Michael's greatest drives. Pedro: He justified my faith in him and proved my estimation of his talent and speed to be correct.Hardly where he deserved to be, but yeah he was good. Heidfeld: Another great drive. Except the Schumacher part.. Kimi: Fantastic drive until he ran into the back of Klien. That was pathetic.Yup. The iceman isn't one.Massa: The boy is quick. The boy also needs more wet-weather practice. He is pretty poor, his only good performances this season have come where Ferrari had massive car superiority. Today he was pathetic. Alonso: Incredible outside passing. I passed a bicycle in my car today. Around the outside. Wow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Autumnpuma 0 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 Wasn't your point: "Would any Fernando-bashers appear to give the man credit for a fantastic drive up through the grid in the rain?" right? and that's what I did, I credited him for an excellent drive -- Wasn't that you wanted to see? and in your statement you said 'when the tires doesn't work, there's little a driver can do' and I disagree, because for sure, he did more then little. Michael was passed more times than a cheap hooker in a gang-bang. He drove well, but there was little he could to because of his tires. The same in the closing stages between Button and Alonso. That was one reason contributing to Button's gain on Alonso. THAT WAS THE POINT I WAS MAKING TO CAV IN RESPONSE TO HIS QUESTION!!! This was the point that you jumped in on. This was the point that you didn't comprehend. Argh, I'm so frustrated trying to explain simple concepts to the simple-minded. Does anybody bother to read the chain of conversation in the threads? Or do you just click on the last posted and reply to that, out of context? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blitzkrieg 0 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 All through the race? He got to the front courtesy of a faster car and stayed there until his retirement, his pass on Michael was made when Michael was 7 seconds a lap slower, it might look impressive but it wasn't.?? He was up to 6th at the start due to his starting system, then his teammate let him through, then he passed 2 handicapped Ferraris including Michael who held him for a while despite the masive disadvantage, and Mark Webber. Once in front he pushed for ward with his massive car advantage and stayed there. Button drove as well as him. He isn't the real deal, why is Alonso. This was nowhere near any of Michael's greatest drives. Hardly where he deserved to be, but yeah he was good. Except the Schumacher part.. Yup. The iceman isn't one. He is pretty poor, his only good performances this season have come where Ferrari had massive car superiority. Today he was pathetic. I passed a bicycle in my car today. Around the outside. Wow. WOW, WELL SAID LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 Well... Kimi and Fernando use the same tyres, do you know what i mean? Fernando trashed Kimi and Kimi has no excuses, what a pity... The Alonso fans are having good laughs reading all the crap you and your "coleagues" have writen Damnit, yes, besides Button, Alonso drove really well, and much better than Kimi, who made a rather foolish mistake, he seemed to understeer into Luizzi You "win" this round Kiko... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradSpeedMan 6 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 Kimi Raikkonen: "It is never great to end a race like that especially when there was every opportunity to win it, but we just have to move forward, and I really appreciate the gesture of Liuzzi coming to apologise." Really nice guy, this Liuzzi.... lovely stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wez 0 Report post Posted August 7, 2006 He did nothing, it was the car, or was he suddenly bad when he was losing 2 seconds lap to Button.Another reason to get rid of the tyre war, Alonso would be nowhere near Michael yesterday on the same tyres. He was superb, He was 2 seconds a lap quicker than any other driver on a fully wet track... the safety car made the race look more competitive (and allowed poor shumi to unlap himself). Button only started catching Alonso on the drying track by the way. Cavallino, You good friend Fisi, showed us it most definately wasnt all the car!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
