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Autumnpuma

Take A Sledgehammer To Those Wings...

50 posts in this topic

Did you see how Alonso was breathing after the race?, take those "helps" away from him and he will retire or he will die in a race.

Maybe that was because of the rear tire's crapped out on him he was doing alot more work then any other driver (his TC was practically gone which you could see from the live telemetry, easing on the trottle instead of stamping it when things are working as they are ment to) and still made less mistakes then MS so thet's why they should go. MS and Massa would have been in a wall way before he got close to Alonso.

Edited by Player(1)

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Change the mane from "Formula 1" To "Nascar 1"

No, Bring back old school F1 where the drivers rather than the cars decide who is WC!

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No, Bring back old school F1 where the drivers rather than the cars decide who is WC!

Only real reason the driver made such a difference in older days was the complete variance of skill through the field. now it's all more professional and calculated which is why I'd like to see radio's banned and the driver making the decisions which would really set them apart.

I seriously doubt it was all that much closer in the old days of F1, the high level's of reliability I think is making things much closer these days...if more then one team can find reliability anyway.

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Did you see how Alonso was breathing after the race?, take those "helps" away from him and he will retire or he will die in a race.

I like technology, and I like to see how FIA try to make F1 slower and engeneer try and usualy make those car go faster and faster, I like innovations like the gearbox and the engine in one package, Mass Dampers, (banned but maybe can be used in our streets like many other divices in F1) Take those "aids" away and will be soon comparing F1 with IRL or Champ Cars, F1 will never be the same without those devices that you would like to ban.

I want to see more electronic aids, I think that the main reason for those aids is not for making the driver's job easier I think is to make the car goes faster and that's what I want to see, I want F1 as the fastest motorsport in the word, I would like to see turbocharge engines again, especial fuel, cars that can be fixed from the pits, whatever can make the F1 even more sophisticated than what it is today.

I'm sorry to say this but if you want to see F1 cars like they were before, you can always get a good historic video and let the F1 keep evolving like is supose to.

Take away the lengh of the race.

Every race should last until Schu get the first position, and just in that moment the race is over.

I'm just dreaming...

Finally the first person to make some sense on this forum. This is what F1 is about, best drivers, pushing the most advanced cars in the world....period....

rest of you you can start dream about your V12 hot wheels and slicks and all the other crap you have been spewing...

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I would say:

- Get rid of Fuel stops!

- Bring back Slicks

- Ban ALL driver aids

- 12 lap Qualifying (including out & In laps), so 4 sprint laps anywhere in the hour.

- Have a South African GP instead of useless ones like Bahrain & Hungary.

- Ban all Indian Drivers (dont worry all our Indian fans... im only joking... haha... haha)

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I can't fight the tide any longer. Formula 1 is fast becoming a spec-series, so what the hell, I'm posting my ideas for a better, more fun, F1 (sorry Ron, no squirt-guns). All of these suggestions are possible, and I'll save you reading how each can happen...I'll just list 'em for now:

1) Somebody listen to David Hobbs and take a sledgehammer to all those wings and greeblies. Knock 'em all off.

2) Get rid of pit stops. If that would make the race too short, then my compromise would be one manditory stop.

3) Bring back slicks.

4 No driver aids.

Anybody else have any thoughts/ideas?

Unfortunately is impossible to ban driver aids with this level of performance. You need 9000 rpm 480/500 cv engines to get back those manual gearboxes. I think the worst part of today F1 are tracks! Did you see how many positions changes happen at Turkish GP? And do you remember how many happen at Imola? Design new good tracks and rule areodynamics and tyre in order to allow cars get closer on the track as in the

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:welcome: Argento

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From GP2006.com:

Several issues have been under discussion recently, such as new testing limits and the 2007 tyre scenario. Another very important item on the agenda is aerodynamics for the 2008 Formula One season and in this regard there are currently two concepts up for discussion.

As our spies in Monza explained, the sports governing body, the FIA, is still highly in favour of introducing their new CDG wing with a slight modification being that the two rear wing elements are actually a bit closer together than they were originally planned. However, the teams have since come up with their own ideas and have put forward two different proposals.

The first of these is for a 1.8 m wide car, complete with the current tyre dimensions while the second one is for a 2m wide car, but with bigger tyres. Of these two proposals, the FIA is only considering the 2m version as it is only in this configuration that drag will increase significantly.

In order to help overtaking and reduce downforce the teams are also suggesting a 1.90 wide front wing and a 75cm wide rear wing. Meanwhile, the diffuser would start 600mm's in front of the rear axle centre line instead of the current 330mm's, but would extend to only 100 mm instead of the now 125. All winglets, fins, flipups, chimneys and bargeboards will be eliminated and this would decrease downforce by a calculated 50 percent.

:eusa_think:

are we seeing some sensible proposals here? I'm all in favour of losing those hideous protuberances such as chimneys and winglets but will the FIA agree, or blindly wander down the CDG wing route with it's "not invented here" attitude??

Edited by monza gorilla

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Very sensible proposals. I think the only one I'd take issue with is the elimination of the chimneys. With the v8's running at close to 20,000 rpm, and generating a record amount of heat in the 'compartment' the chimneys get rid of quite alot of heat that would otherwise remain near the engine. Imagine the current wiring-loom-on-fire problems we've seen this season magnified....not conducive to good racing.

Argento, I would respectfully say that I strongly believe the drivers can handle current F1 cars without electronic driver's aids. As a matter of fact, the elimination of, say, TC will have the effect of marginally slowing the cars through medium speed corners. The cars would be more difficult to handle and you couldn't just mash the throttle on exit.

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Very sensible proposals. I think the only one I'd take issue with is the elimination of the chimneys. With the v8's running at close to 20,000 rpm, and generating a record amount of heat in the 'compartment' the chimneys get rid of quite alot of heat that would otherwise remain near the engine. Imagine the current wiring-loom-on-fire problems we've seen this season magnified....not conducive to good racing.

Argento, I would respectfully say that I strongly believe the drivers can handle current F1 cars without electronic driver's aids. As a matter of fact, the elimination of, say, TC will have the effect of marginally slowing the cars through medium speed corners. The cars would be more difficult to handle and you couldn't just mash the throttle on exit.

Although the RPM will be restiricted to 19000 next year it wil not make any diffrence on the heat genereation and thus the chimneys are essentail.

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Although the RPM will be restiricted to 19000 next year it wil not make any diffrence on the heat genereation and thus the chimneys are essentail.

True enough, but that isn't set in stone.

From the FIA's statement on engine homologation:

ii) This means that no further developments of the engines will be allowed

other than retuning for the 19,000 rpm limit, to be agreed in each case with

the FIA under the terms of the 2008 Formula 1 Sporting Regulations.

Now the 2008 Technical Regulations state:

5.1.3 Crankshaft rotational speed must not exceed 19,000 rpm (this figure may be increased to 20,000 rpm in consultation with the competing teams)

I'm not sure why the original FIA release states that the rpm limit is governed by the 2008 Sporting Regulations instead of the Technical Regulations, but whatever...probably a typo.

The point is that there are conditions that can happen whereby the rev limit for 2007 and beyond can be increased to 20,000 rpm. Probably not alot of heat difference between 19 and 20,000 rpm, but we should look ahead to the rpm being increased before 2009.

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Very sensible proposals. I think the only one I'd take issue with is the elimination of the chimneys. With the v8's running at close to 20,000 rpm, and generating a record amount of heat in the 'compartment' the chimneys get rid of quite alot of heat that would otherwise remain near the engine. Imagine the current wiring-loom-on-fire problems we've seen this season magnified....not conducive to good racing.

Argento, I would respectfully say that I strongly believe the drivers can handle current F1 cars without electronic driver's aids. As a matter of fact, the elimination of, say, TC will have the effect of marginally slowing the cars through medium speed corners. The cars would be more difficult to handle and you couldn't just mash the throttle on exit.

I would like to see the elimination of TC ASAP!!

I want to see drivers chasing or being chased.

Remember in a fight the chaser or the chased getting desperate and hitting the throttle too early therefore sliding or spinning in the fight?

That is the meaning of the on track battle, who copes with the pressure best. if they put their foot down too early and have a slide/ spin, thats their fault.

This would also reignite the TRUE rain master debate.

OH HAPPY MEMORIES!

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I want to see closer racing. Yes, it is true, we should bring back slicks, turbochargers, exotic fuels, etc. But some ideas are not practical, such as banning Traction Control. The reason they started allowing it in the first place is because it was so difficult for the scrutineers to figure out what the ecu was doing, you could've easily had (a little) traction control without anyone noticing.

Heres one for you - how about the teams run a standard bodyshell to which they are allowed to add minor modifications, but nothing capable of producing serious downforce. And bring back the real 'Ring! It was too big to marshal properly back in the '70s, but now, with improved communications and technology, it should be a cynch.

Active suspension? Manual gearboxes? And how about ridiculous corners that decrease in radius in just the right amount to make the driver coast all the way through?

And I know it will never happen. Ever. But seeing as an F1 car can develop enough downforce to stick to the celing.....

Barrel rolls in the track? Loop-the-loops?

Completely ridiculous, insane, and suicidal - but what a show.

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You guys are really keen on slowing these F1 cars down but if your idea's a implemented i guarantee you F1 will become a slower series than Champ Car which is something none of us want.

If it was up to me these are the ONLY changes id make.

- Return to slicks

- Install a new rear wing to allow more overtaking

- Remove driver aids.

Any more than that and F1 will become just another open wheeled series which i think would be a great shame.

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You guys are really keen on slowing these F1 cars down but if your idea's a implemented i guarantee you F1 will become a slower series than Champ Car which is something none of us want.

If it was up to me these are the ONLY changes id make.

- Return to slicks

- Install a new rear wing to allow more overtaking

- Remove driver aids.

Any more than that and F1 will become just another open wheeled series which i think would be a great shame.

i agree, slicks would be great. adjustments to allow for more overtaking would make the races more exciting.

but like its been said in this thread, F1 has always been about the latest technologies driven by the best drivers. If anything has to be done , its steps to make the teams have an equal amount of resources so the gap between say, Ferrari and Midland F1 is'nt so vast.

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You guys are really keen on slowing these F1 cars down but if your idea's a implemented i guarantee you F1 will become a slower series than Champ Car which is something none of us want.

If it was up to me these are the ONLY changes id make.

- Return to slicks

- Install a new rear wing to allow more overtaking

- Remove driver aids.

Any more than that and F1 will become just another open wheeled series which i think would be a great shame.

Agrees with Ykick 66.66% I would not enforce removing driver aids. I don't see them having much impact on F1 loss of fun. Instead I would bring back tracks like the old Nurburgring (and I mean THE OLD Nurburgring, someone please help me with the correct name for it!) Longer, not so "perfect" tracks, plenty of bumps, quirky curves and slopes. As much as I enjoy Tilke tracks, we have more than enough of them. As for pit stops, either one mandatory refuelling stop or none at all.

The no-radio rule sounds intriguing. I think I would like that too.

I guess banning the Ferraris would be asking too much... :(

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Agrees with Ykick 66.66% I would not enforce removing driver aids. I don't see them having much impact on F1 loss of fun. Instead I would bring back tracks like the old Nurburgring (and I mean THE OLD Nurburgring, someone please help me with the correct name for it!) Longer, not so "perfect" tracks, plenty of bumps, quirky curves and slopes. As much as I enjoy Tilke tracks, we have more than enough of them. As for pit stops, either one mandatory refuelling stop or none at all.

The no-radio rule sounds intriguing. I think I would like that too.

I guess banning the Ferraris would be asking too much... :(

All of this now has to take a back seat.

We have a new enemy and it aint Luke Skywalker!

We need to destroy the engine freeze NOW!!!!

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I have been thinking about this a little and have come to the conclusion that another racing series needs to be made and raced alongside F1. You could call it something like Formula1975 or whatever year you wanted and base all of the rules off that. Tires, engines, wings, everything would be built to that years rules but using present day technology and adding present day safety rules such as the c#ckpit and wheel tethers.

For F1 the rules could be something like you can build what ever you want within certain dimensions for the car, nothing under a certain weight, any engine under a max # of liters with our without any kind of forced induction, and whatever aerodynamics you want as long as it doesn't interfere with other cars within a certain distance around your vehicle(for instance 2 metres behind and .1 metres to each side. I don't really see anthing wrong with the way the races themselves are as of last season in terms of pit stops. Quali could use a little tweaking. As for safety cars I'm almost thinking that there should be two. Each running roughly half a lap away from the other. Have the leaders behind the main safety car and all of the lapped cars would get to pass but had to form up behing the second safety car.

I'm not familiar with what kind room the pits at most tracks have but you could run both series at the same tracks on the same weekend or stagger them to where one starts a week earlier and the other follows a week behind all season.

Also a little off topic, does anyone know of a time at which a safety car crashed? I've never heard of this happening and am quite curious to see how it would be handled.

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We already have historic F1, and it's great to watch. There was, of course the Aurora (AFX?) F1 series for retired F1 machinery, which was quite popular for a while.

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I have been thinking about this a little and have come to the conclusion that another racing series needs to be made and raced alongside F1. You could call it something like Formula1975 or whatever year you wanted and base all of the rules off that. Tires, engines, wings, everything would be built to that years rules but using present day technology and adding present day safety rules such as the c#ckpit and wheel tethers.

For F1 the rules could be something like you can build what ever you want within certain dimensions for the car, nothing under a certain weight, any engine under a max # of liters with our without any kind of forced induction, and whatever aerodynamics you want as long as it doesn't interfere with other cars within a certain distance around your vehicle(for instance 2 metres behind and .1 metres to each side. I don't really see anthing wrong with the way the races themselves are as of last season in terms of pit stops. Quali could use a little tweaking. As for safety cars I'm almost thinking that there should be two. Each running roughly half a lap away from the other. Have the leaders behind the main safety car and all of the lapped cars would get to pass but had to form up behing the second safety car.

I'm not familiar with what kind room the pits at most tracks have but you could run both series at the same tracks on the same weekend or stagger them to where one starts a week earlier and the other follows a week behind all season.

Also a little off topic, does anyone know of a time at which a safety car crashed? I've never heard of this happening and am quite curious to see how it would be handled.

I know Ribiero crashed the medical car with Watkins on board!

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I know Ribiero crashed the medical car with Watkins on board!

Have you seen the new safety car rules??!!

VERY COMPLICATED!!

Any safety car period will be at least TWICE as long!

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EXCESS IS A BEAUTIFUL THING! :beer:

I want:

more pit stops

as many tyre changes and types of tyre as possible

a new engine for every race ( no god damn penalties)

and the V10's back (it just doesn't sound the same anymore)

more robust bounce 'em off the kurb suspension and steering

bigger, clearer driver numbers on cars

more points for 1st place to encourage drivers to push for a win and not settle for mediocracy and the WDC!

LESS IS MORE

I want:

less frills, gills, wings, lumps, bumps, horns etc

less driver aids (remove everything that makes life easier for the drivers)

less grid girls

less advertising on cars

less commentators rambling

and celebs clogging the grid

I want drivers who drive and cars that race (even if that means wheel to wheel combat)! :boxing:

And I want it all contained in 1hr 30 to 2 hrs.

Do I ask for too much?!?!?

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EXCESS IS A BEAUTIFUL THING! :beer:

I want:

more pit stops

as many tyre changes and types of tyre as possible

a new engine for every race ( no god damn penalties)

and the V10's back (it just doesn't sound the same anymore)

more robust bounce 'em off the kurb suspension and steering

bigger, clearer driver numbers on cars

more points for 1st place to encourage drivers to push for a win and not settle for mediocracy and the WDC!

LESS IS MORE

I want:

less frills, gills, wings, lumps, bumps, horns etc

less driver aids (remove everything that makes life easier for the drivers)

less grid girls

less advertising on cars

less commentators rambling

and celebs clogging the grid

I want drivers who drive and cars that race (even if that means wheel to wheel combat)! :boxing:

And I want it all contained in 1hr 30 to 2 hrs.

Do I ask for too much?!?!?

This world is gonna break your heart :(

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I can't fight the tide any longer. Formula 1 is fast becoming a spec-series, so what the hell, I'm posting my ideas for a better, more fun, F1 (sorry Ron, no squirt-guns). All of these suggestions are possible, and I'll save you reading how each can happen...I'll just list 'em for now:

1) Somebody listen to David Hobbs and take a sledgehammer to all those wings and greeblies. Knock 'em all off.

2) Get rid of pit stops. If that would make the race too short, then my compromise would be one manditory stop.

3) Bring back slicks.

4 No driver aids.

Anybody else have any thoughts/ideas?

My solution:

Active ride car (with active suspensions and bigger wings included) + fan car + slicks + brake steering system + 3.0 NA V10s with exotic materials and magnetic valve gears (minimum 1100 hp; with the old variable intake and exhaust and vvt allowed again) +exotic fuels + movable/active flexible aero + 9 speed transmission (production cars already have 8).

You can take away ABS, TC/LC and ESC if you want and the intervention self shifting computer/program, though power steering and power braking will stay.

5.5 to 7 G at 320/330 Km/h in the Turn 8 vs. 4.5 to 6 G at 300 Km/h today would be minimum required. Maximum G spikes should go up to 8/8.5 G from 7G. At Monza 400+ Km/h on the straight.

Safety should be improved even more. Closed reinforced c#ckpit with airbags and other stuff, like, perhaps, a parachute a la NHRA, and even ejecting seat system like in fighter planes.

Pit stop speeds should be higher.

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Also, Bernie and Max to burn in hell for all eternity. Nope, that's still not enough...

McLaren and Ferrari to be ousted from F1, unless they have really crapy cars that can't win a thing.

F. Williams, P. Head, R. Dennis, Jean Todt and perhaps F. Briatore to be arrested at Guantanamo Bay if they come near F1 cars and/or personal.

Williams cars should be banned from having anything but Renault engines in them.

Lotus, Maserati, Alfa Romeo and Lancia should come back.

Renault should be awarded one or more Nobel prizes for the V10 + pneumatic valve gear engine = aka super high rever V8/V12 killer.

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