Rindt Explains 2006 From The Grave

[bajo39 0]

Both Apuma and Tifosi have made good points. IMHO it is too simplistic to assert that one drivers is a WDC because he can man handle a car to neutralise the effects of Understeer. Dialing out understeer can easlily be achieved by adjusting front wing or other set up tricks

My understanding of the respective driving styles of FA/KR and the rest comes down to FA's reliance on Traction control. It has been said that FA relies on TC more than most drivers on the grid, with JB barely using the system because of his smooth driving style. FA effectively manhandles the car safe in the knowlede that the TC will take care of his exit from a corner regardless.

Although perhaps a bit off-topic, reliance on TC can be down to team philosophy as well. I understand that Ferrari, for instance, view TC generally as a positive thing and hence have designed their cars to make as much use of this system as possible. Honda on the otherhand, see TC as more of a safety-system that comes on less frequently and only in limited quantities.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Although perhaps a bit off-topic, reliance on TC can be down to team philosophy as well. I understand that Ferrari, for instance, view TC generally as a positive thing and hence have designed their cars to make as much use of this system as possible. Honda on the otherhand, see TC as more of a safety-system that comes on less frequently and only in limited quantities.

Absolutely correct. This is why Rubens had to get Honda to work on the TC to suit what he was used to at Ferrari.

[bajo39 0]

Absolutely correct. This is why Rubens had to get Honda to work on the TC to suit what he was used to at Ferrari.

Anyway, getting back on-topic... I don't see that Alonso is balancing the car on the edge of oversteer all the way through the corners and, in any case, I don't think you could accomplish this from turn-in with a simple flick of the wheel. That is, unless you were drifting the car all the way through the corner a la Nuvolari. I have enough car racing experience to know that coaxing an under-steering car, like say a BMW M roadster, through a corner is more about throttle control than violent steering inputs at turn-in. Although perhaps it is only understeer at turn-in that Alonso is trying to counteract? Hmmm...

[Autumnpuma 0]

Anyway, getting back on-topic... I don't see that Alonso is balancing the car on the edge of oversteer all the way through the corners and, in any case, I don't think you could accomplish this from turn-in with a simple flick of the wheel. That is, unless you were drifting the car all the way through the corner a la Nuvolari. I have enough car racing experience to know that coaxing an under-steering car, like say a BMW M roadster, through a corner is more about throttle control than violent steering inputs at turn-in. Although perhaps it is only understeer at turn-in that Alonso is trying to counteract? Hmmm...

Yes. If you look at the basic graphic on the TV feed, and at his hands on the wheel at turn in, you will see the following:

Late breaking and sharp turn-in. Alonso coasts through the apex, making small steering corrections until the exit. At exit, Alonso is hard on the throttle, letting the TC sort out the spin. Going back to the turn-in, if you throw your car at the apex, combined with a fast, late entry, you will cause your rear to swing around. Alonso ballances the car with steering instead of throttle through the corner.

[bajo39 0]

Yes. If you look at the basic graphic on the TV feed, and at his hands on the wheel at turn in, you will see the following:

Late breaking and sharp turn-in. Alonso coasts through the apex, making small steering corrections until the exit. At exit, Alonso is hard on the throttle, letting the TC sort out the spin. Going back to the turn-in, if you throw your car at the apex, combined with a fast, late entry, you will cause your rear to swing around. Alonso ballances the car with steering instead of throttle through the corner.

I will watch out for it but I suspect your analysis is right on the money. Certainly Alonso does leave his braking awfully late and really throws his machine at the apexes - exciting stuff, and, effective apparently. Now, if he could just get his youthful impetuosity under control...

[tifosi too! 0]

I respect your right to post whatever you want and I'm interested in your opinions, but if I understand this post of yours correctly, you really have no idea what you're talking about. I can see that you are taking the last line of my original post and ignoring all the rest of it.

I don't really think you understand any of my posts and its not due to language reasons.You never present anything but speculation and never respond to any arguments.You just keep on saying what you started and going on and on...I 've met people like you before and i now too well not to try to change you or even seriously argue about anything.You ofetn contradict your wise arguments but i don't care enough to point it out to you.Oh and about the Google thing...What did you expect ???Grow up..

[bajo39 0]

I don't really think you understand any of my posts and its not due to language reasons.You never present anything but speculation and never respond to any arguments.You just keep on saying what you started and going on and on...I 've met people like you before and i now too well not to try to change you or even seriously argue about anything.You ofetn contradict your wise arguments but i don't care enough to point it out to you.Oh and about the Google thing...What did you expect ???Grow up..

The forum has no use for ad hominem attacks...

[tifosi too! 0]

The forum has no use for ad hominem attacks...

If you read the thread again you 'll find out that i was attacked first.BTW yea, watch your ... typing Apuma.

[Autumnpuma 0]

I don't really think you understand any of my posts and its not due to language reasons.You never present anything but speculation and never respond to any arguments. You just keep on saying what you started and going on and on...I 've met people like you before and i now too well not to try to change you or even seriously argue about anything.You ofetn contradict your wise arguments but i don't care enough to point it out to you.Oh and about the Google thing...What did you expect ???Grow up..

I would suggest that you don't respond to my threads if you don't like talking to the 'kind of person' I am. It's not too difficult, the thread's author is clearly listed.

I am open to other opinions, but there is such a thing as being correct and being wrong. To insist that a driver cannot affect what the car is doing, and that the mechanics reign supreme is wrong. There is no way in Hell I will reach a 'concensus' with you on something that is wrong.

If I've contradictied myself, please point it out. It's possible that I didn't explain myself correctly. The main problem you have with my posts is that you cannot separate my opinions from my true statements and that is a language problem. My assessment of Alonso's driving style is correct. My opinon that this contributed to his WDC is opinion. Learn to identify each and my posts will make more sense to you.

If you read the thread again you 'll find out that i was attacked first.BTW yea, watch your ... typing Apuma.

Attack? I accused you of not knowing what you were talking about concerning driver's styles and car set-ups. That is a true statement, not an attack. Please present the exact quote of my 'attacks' on you. I do not attack. I will call you out when you make what I feel is a foolish statement. That is not an 'attack'.

If I've offended you in any way, please accept my apology as I never intended to offend you personally. Be aware that in the realm of ideas, such as this forum, you (and indeed we all) can and will be challenged.

[tifosi too! 0]

I would suggest that you don't respond to my threads if you don't like talking to the 'kind of person' I am. It's not too difficult, the thread's author is clearly listed.

I am open to other opinions, but there is such a thing as being correct and being wrong. To insist that a driver cannot affect what the car is doing, and that the mechanics reign supreme is wrong. There is no way in Hell I will reach a 'concensus' with you on something that is wrong.

If I've contradictied myself, please point it out. It's possible that I didn't explain myself correctly. The main problem you have with my posts is that you cannot separate my opinions from my true statements and that is a language problem. My assessment of Alonso's driving style is correct. My opinon that this contributed to his WDC is opinion. Learn to identify each and my posts will make more sense to you.

Thats not what i said.But again you are not open to other opinions as you claim to be.Even this thread is filled with your "i am correct" etc statements.You start everything taking for granted that you are right and all the others are wrong.The "kind of person" comment actually was not offensive.It is just that some people have that kind of attitude against others who don't agree with them.I bet everyone here undrestands what i'm saying.The lack of arguments on your side(quite often) and irony right from the start can't but lead to a conflict.If you don't want people to start being ironic and disrespectful,maybe you shouldn't provoke them by doing just that.And i won't exclude myself from any topic just because you wrote it.If i wish to say my opinion i will.

[tifosi too! 0]

Attack? I accused you of not knowing what you were talking about concerning driver's styles and car set-ups. That is a true statement, not an attack. Please present the exact quote of my 'attacks' on you. I do not attack. I will call you out when you make what I feel is a foolish statement. That is not an 'attack'.

If I've offended you in any way, please accept my apology as I never intended to offend you personally. Be aware that in the realm of ideas, such as this forum, you (and indeed we all) can and will be challenged.

You and I have one thing in common right now...neither of us knows what you're talking about wacko.gif

--So i don't know what i'm talking about..An ignorant fool perhaps?-Definetely not an insult/personal attack

Thanks for you input wacko.gif

--Yea sorry, i won't do it again...messing with your highly scientific, apocalyptic thread.I will speak when i have real INPUT to provide like you do.

if I understand this post of yours correctly, you really have no idea what you're talking about.

--again i'm an ignorant...

I accused you of not knowing what you were talking about concerning driver's styles and car set-ups. That is a true statement, not an attack

In this forum we are supposed to debate and try to convince others for us being right through our arguments.Thats all I do here.Its not about trying to make everyone that doesn't agree with us look stupid(not that you were able to do that anyhow).But it is offensive and personal attack if you do so.All these at a "nickname" level because in real life i don't really care .

[Autumnpuma 0]

Excellent rant! I enjoyed it!