Alonso Race Remains Me Of Senna

[Jenson_Rules 0]

Look at it this way, would Button still have won had he started P4 where he should have? Yes, He would also have been in the lead virtually the whole ace. His win was a 'real' win no doubt about it and the ONLY person you can say benefitted him was Alonso and even then in the last 10 laps both would have had a mamoth fight to the finish as the speed Button was catching Alonso would have led him to catch him. Corrct me if im worng but didnt JB pass Alonso after Alonso pitted and was in the lead just before Alonso retired? If so JB could have pulled a big gap, pitted again and come out behind Alonso and like I said, have had a mamoth fight to the finish!

[bajo39 0]

As a first race, in the wet, he did very well. That's how I'm guaging him. Nobody expected him to be as good as NH or JV. I think everyone was expecting the worst, then got pleasantly surprised. Seeing Kubica in the dry will give a good indication of his full potential, however.

Yes, I think that's about it. All you really want to see from a rookie, especially in his first race, is pace. The intelligence, maturity and consistency we saw from Kubica was an unexpected bonus. Well, even the pace was unexpected, wasn't it?

I'm not saying he's faster than either NH or JV yet - that would be a ludicrous statement. But my suspicion is that by the end of the season, I will...

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Button won due to the following reasons:-

1) No Ferraris had a good car/tyres

2) No Renaults finished

3) Neither Mclaren's were good

Button clearly had the stronger car and my my, how can you compare Alonso to the rain master? Put Michael in Alonso's car and then do the likewise, we would've definately seen a better performance, as I've said before, you have to look at all the factors when judging. Schumi was the best, is the best and will remain the best.

1) ferrari drivers kept making mistakes, and just werent fast enough

2) fisi was way behind u odd person, and button was ahead of alonso and 2secs a lap faster

3) neither mclarens were good, what kind of crap reason is that? kimi crashed and de la rosa was 30secs behind JB!

Button clearly had the stronger car? a Honda? say what u want, the majority of us saw an amazing performance.

For ANY win by any driver you could say 'well he only won cos the other teams weren't good', what are u on about?

[UrKo 0]

1) ferrari drivers kept making mistakes, and just werent fast enough

2) fisi was way behind u odd person, and button was ahead of alonso and 2secs a lap faster

3) neither mclarens were good, what kind of crap reason is that? kimi crashed and de la rosa was 30secs behind JB!

Button clearly had the stronger car? a Honda? say what u want, the majority of us saw an amazing performance.

For ANY win by any driver you could say 'well he only won cos the other teams weren't good', what are u on about?

No point explaining to him as he dont get it....I posted similar post and he's avoiding me since.

[cavallino 2]

Now that sounds very risky to me....

The racing line actually had less grip (which is not abnormal in those conditions), at least at that point in the race, as Alonso was repeatedly demonstrating. If you saw him passing Michael on the outside, you'll see what I mean.

[Autumnpuma 0]

The racing line actually had less grip (which is not abnormal in those conditions), at least at that point in the race, as Alonso was repeatedly demonstrating. If you saw him passing Michael on the outside, you'll see what I mean.

Absolutely correct. You can see Alonso taking extremely wide lines all through the race. That being said, it's still impressive to pass anybody on the outside, regardless of weather conditions. When you're on the outside, you are struggling with more understeer than the guy on the inside and you have to maintain quite a speed advantage as you're actually travelling a greater distance round the turn.

[bajo39 0]

Absolutely correct. You can see Alonso taking extremely wide lines all through the race. That being said, it's still impressive to pass anybody on the outside, regardless of weather conditions. When you're on the outside, you are struggling with more understeer than the guy on the inside and you have to maintain quite a speed advantage as you're actually travelling a greater distance round the turn.

Such was the advantage offered by the Michelin intermediate...

[stopkidding 0]

Button won due to the following reasons:-

1) No Ferraris had a good car/tyres

2) No Renaults finished

3) Neither Mclaren's were good

Button clearly had the stronger car and my my, how can you compare Alonso to the rain master? Put Michael in Alonso's car and then do the likewise, we would've definately seen a better performance, as I've said before, you have to look at all the factors when judging. Schumi was the best, is the best and will remain the best.

To Finish First you First have to Finish

- From Motorsport 101, and what you probably never will realize or learn...

[Autumnpuma 0]

Such was the advantage offered by the Michelin intermediate...

Add to that Alonso's natural driving style which depends on sorting the car out at the apex with quick, precise steering adjustments. By your comments so far, Bajo, I would guess you are a racer (of some discipline) and know firsthand how passing on the outside depends on precise steering input (a bit moreso than if you passed on the inside). The tires made it possible for Alonso to expliot his natural talent. Some drivers could not do this, no matter what the tire, because of inferior driving ability.

[bajo39 0]

Add to that Alonso's natural driving style which depends on sorting the car out at the apex with quick, precise steering adjustments. By your comments so far, Bajo, I would guess you are a racer (of some discipline) and know firsthand how passing on the outside depends on precise steering input (a bit moreso than if you passed on the inside). The tires made it possible for Alonso to expliot his natural talent. Some drivers could not do this, no matter what the tire, because of inferior driving ability.

I'm not good enough to know that

You are quite right though, Alonso's maneuvor, whatever the tyre advantage, was exceptional and his wet weather form, sublime. Too bad his pit crew were not up to the same standard...

[nojvnof1 0]

Absolutely correct. You can see Alonso taking extremely wide lines all through the race.

I'm guessing that's the 'karting line' I heard James Allen and Davidson talking about?

[Fed up 0]

I'm guessing that's the 'karting line' I heard James Allen and Davidson talking about?

I didn't understand what he meant by 'Karting line' - Is there a difference?

[Player(1) 0]

I didn't understand what he meant by 'Karting line' - Is there a difference?

Proberly ment it as a line most people learn from karting, certainly not possible with tire clag building up on the outside for normal corner's in F1 races (2005 the single tire rule ment harder compound that didnt create anywhere near as much marbles which is why Alonso could do the Suzuka 130R in the same fashion). There are a few different line's a driver can take through a corner but it depends on what you want to achieve. Alonso was taking a wide line then turning in sharper to get a straighter and faster exit so he could setup to attack in the next braking zone.

Never looked but the drivers should be doing something similiar in qualifying for track's with long straights, if the marble's arent there already.

[bajo39 0]

I'm guessing that's the 'karting line' I heard James Allen and Davidson talking about?

I don't know the karting line around the Hungaroring but in general, shifterkarts, which is the type of kart that would be raced on a full-length road course, require a straight exit for acceleration from any corner. If you watch a shifterkart race, you'll see the drivers straighten the wheel at the apex and accelerate while jerking the wheel to effect a relatively smooth exit to the turn. This causes the drivers to tend towards later apexes than would be common in car racing, especially in the wet where you generally want to brake one-half car width from the extreme edge of the track on entry, cut accross the racing line going deeper into the corner, catch a late apex and then cut inside the normal racing line on exit.

[nojvnof1 0]

Ok, cheers for that Dan.

[Autumnpuma 0]

I don't know the karting line around the Hungaroring but in general, shifterkarts, which is the type of kart that would be raced on a full-length road course, require a straight exit for acceleration from any corner. If you watch a shifterkart race, you'll see the drivers straighten the wheel at the apex and accelerate while jerking the wheel to effect a relatively smooth exit to the turn. This causes the drivers to tend towards later apexes than would be common in car racing, especially in the wet where you generally want to brake one-half car width from the extreme edge of the track on entry, cut accross the racing line going deeper into the corner, catch a late apex and then cut inside the normal racing line on exit.

Yes, you know your sh!t. I hope your detractors will remember this post the next time they dispute your take on driving styles....

[QWERTY 0]

Yes have to admit Nando is a good driver and time will make him better, but as now he still too c#cky, the day he becomes a humble driver more people will adore him, but now he is still jerk and thinks that he was punished unfairly in the Hungary Q1

[Autumnpuma 0]

Yes have to admit Nando is a good driver and time will make him better, but as now he still too c#cky, the day he becomes a humble driver more people will adore him, but now he is still jerk and thinks that he was punished unfairly in the Hungary Q1

I could care less if anyone adores him. What burns me is seeing a fantastic talent like Fernando belittled by people. I don't bother to defend M$ or Kimi because they already have alot of support.

[QWERTY 0]

I could care less if anyone adores him.

You could or "COULDN'T" care less? if you could care less then probably you really care

[Autumnpuma 0]

You could or "COULDN'T" care less? if you could care less then probably you really care

BAH!

[Ctrl300 0]

The karting line mentioned was purely for purposes of grip. As there is no rubber on the outside line it would give a better grip in the wet, in other words opposite to what is the case in the dry where rubber creates grip. This would facilitate the cutting of the normal racing line on exit which bajo was talking about.

BTW, I think Alonso drove a fantastic race, and for those of you whom speak of him being a whiner and a cheat and Senna not, you really expose the fact that you have absolutely no idea and no grasp of the phenomenon which was Senna.

[Autumnpuma 0]

The karting line mentioned was purely for purposes of grip. As there is no rubber on the outside line it would give a better grip in the wet, in other words opposite to what is the case in the dry where rubber creates grip. This would facilitate the cutting of the normal racing line on exit which bajo was talking about.

BTW, I think Alonso drove a fantastic race, and for those of you whom speak of him being a whiner and a cheat and Senna not, you really expose the fact that you have absolutely no idea and no grasp of the phenomenon which was Senna.

Welcome back!

[bajo39 0]

The karting line mentioned was purely for purposes of grip. As there is no rubber on the outside line it would give a better grip in the wet, in other words opposite to what is the case in the dry where rubber creates grip. This would facilitate the cutting of the normal racing line on exit which bajo was talking about.

BTW, I think Alonso drove a fantastic race, and for those of you whom speak of him being a whiner and a cheat and Senna not, you really expose the fact that you have absolutely no idea and no grasp of the phenomenon which was Senna.

Yeah it's a bit about rubber but also the non-rubber component of the track surface. You see, the track gets preferentially worn down and smoothed out on the racing line from the wear and tear of cars passing over it. In the dry, this means that the contact patch is greater (a smooth surface has less void space than a rough one) but in wet conditions, a smooth surface allows for a film of water to form over it more easily - we call this surface phenomena 'wetting' - hence the tyres effectively run on water. With a rough surface, eg off-line where the track hasn't been worn, the water cannot as easily form a film and the 'teeth' of the surface stick up and 'bite' the tyres, hence you get greater grip.

So, the wet weather line preferentially seeks out the less worn, and grippier, parts of the corner while still maintaining the general cornering principles that apply in all conditions, ie to make every corner as straight as possible and maximize the time the car spends travelling in a straight line. In practice, this means braking one half to one car width in from the extreme edge of the track on entry, running deep into the corner about half a car width from the apex, and then exiting one half car width away from the extreme edge of the track on exit. You cross the dry line twice: once on entry, crossing from the inside of it to the outside of it, and once on exit, doing the opposite.

[Ctrl300 0]

Welcome back!

Thanks a lot brother! Been keeping up to date with your posts, but have not felt for posting anything for a while. I will post now and then, try o play it nice (if I have it in me thart is)

Ok, have a good one for now, I will reply to your whealings and dealings once in a while

BTW bajo, you're on target, you only explained my thing more in debth. Cheers!

[bajo39 0]

BTW bajo, you're on target, you only explained my thing more in debth. Cheers!

Thank you for letting me know that I'm on target