Sudarshan the shumi fan

JV Talking Too Much And Trying To Show Off

106 posts in this topic

"Yes, clearly Ferrari's incredible run and BAR's disastrous failure can be attributed entirely to Schumi and JV respectively. I give you an A+ for such a stunning thesis that has volumes of foolproof evidence backing it up. JV should have designed, built, raced, modified, funded, managed, and every other imaginable adjective that could be used within the context of an F1 team and thus the finger for the BAR debacle should be pointed his way.."

You see, I'm not MS fan. To be fair, I even don't like him. I can admit, that JV has right when was talking about Schumi "dirty tricks", like in Adelaide (1994), Jerez (1997), Monaco 2006 etc. I'm not also a Ferrari fan. I was, but after races like A1 in 2002 and because good "cooperation" with FIA I changed my mind. But what you like, and what you admire, that are two totaly diffrent things. It's not hard to notice, that the success of MS are not only his driving or dirty play. MS is in the sport since 1991. For 15 years now, he is on top. I think, that maybe this is the thing that couldn't leave JV alone. When JV arrived to F1 MS was a star. When JV is leaving F1 (not because he wants, but because nobody want him) Shumi still is fighting for a F1 title. Michael is still on top because he can offer his team something more than pure driving skills. I'm surprised, that you didn't know that. He is a great team player (thing which is completly unknown for Jacques), who knows how team wokrs, and knew what persons should be in Ferrari, in 1996, to make this team great again. This is the pfenomen of Schumi. He is not making bad allusion to his team (like JV, when something isn't right for him), that's why he is able to bring best of the best operating personnel. It's not my imagination.

"Friendly advice: take your hands off Schumi's cojones and TRY for the love of God to come up with something a little better than that."

Ehh....no comments.

"neither of these gentlemen were particularly happy to have JV."

Why? Richards and Mario are/were so stupid?? Renault team also?? Or Frank Williams. They have such a gem and they let him leave? You see, it's interesting from my point of view, that JV, a great driver, with great presonality was fired by BAR, BMW (in the middle of the season), his career with Renault last for 3 races, and Frank W. never want him after 98. As you said, JV had the best season since 2003 (and that's true) but why F1 not want him ?? Why the only team who want him was Midland/Lost Boys? Why McLaren, Ferrari, Renault, Toyota, RBR, BMW, Williams aren't interested in gain JV. It was clear for everyone that JV won't be a BMW driver in 2007 ... so why he is now leaving F1 without any serious offer?

You know why DC still is in RBR? Not because he is greater driver than JV. But because his attitude is always high and positive. He isn't big mouth. He knows how to work with engineers, cooperate with team. And you remember situation JV in Williams? How he was talking that he has no respect for most of his team personnel ?? The story, how he setup his car?? It was clearly, that he's not gambler who is able to make progress with the team (be part of it). And that's why his "own" BAR fired him. There are so many stories about JV and BAR .. but most of them don't blame Richards, but Jacques. JV is great egoist, with ill ego.

"Villeneuve also believes that formula one has spawned a generation of drivers who are so intimidated by their teams that they lack the ability to think for themselves - or analyse any responsibility they might have for driving errors on the circuit. "Some drivers are totally willing to accept what their teams tell them - namely that they're at the bottom of the food chain," he said. "You know, 'You're here to drive, nothing more"

You see ?? He stil thinks, that he is a star. That he "owns" team. His ego is ill ... with such treatment you are unable to make positive effects on your team. That's why he end with BAR, BMW in such bad circumstances. Why nobody want him - Even is he was right in some fields.

"As for winning with the 'best' car on the grid... perhaps JV should apologize for not winning in a Minardi. "

Of course not. But I was lying ?? Williams was the best team at the moment. To be fair with you. Hakkinen or Schumi probably will won in 1994 and 1997 (in Williams) in the middle of the season. Not in the last race ... I think, that you know the story of 1994 ... But of course. In F1 is really hard to win with not best car on the grid. No offence to JV. He was a great driver (not such great like Hakkinen or Schumi but a well deserved World Champion) but as I know it's now 2006, not 1997. And I think, that someone don't know about it.

Aha .. trust me. MS salary is about 80mln dollars per year. Yes? Why do you think Ferrari, and sponsors pay him so much, if he will be forgotten after a year, like said JV? They are so stupid?

I wish JV all the best. But for god sake ... shut up! Jacques. You lost F1 future because you didn't know where to stop ....

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why you hate him, he was just talking about MS, who lies and cheats, that's all.

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"why you hate him, he was just talking about MS, who lies and cheats, that's all.'

I don't hate JV. He is ... neutral for me. But I think, that even if you say some true, but in bad moment, evertyhing turns agains you. JV liked I said dosen't say something complety stupid. But he said, that in a bad moment, making him nothing more than a fever, embittered man who's attacking everyone because he lost his chance in F1. It's good moment to attack Schumi for 1997? Talking about Kubica inexperience (which is true btw) instead of good luck. Talking about honesty and than ... how NASCAR is not a step down ... Just look how Hakkinen, left F1, or Hill. With dignity. JV dosen't know, that he isn't center of the world. He couldn't stand it. And that's the reason of his childish behevior now, and that's was the reason why he couldn't find place in F1, and was sacked by BMW, BAR ..... You can be a real man, and leave with honour, and you can left like JV did. Attacking everyone, whe you are save ....

End of story for me. But still, best wishes for JV, even if his style (particularly seeing in the last days) don't "fit" me.

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he has the right to insult the whole BMW team, since they need him as he said, unless they dont want to build a competitive team.

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he has the right to insult the whole BMW team, since they need him as he said, unless they dont want to build a competitive team.

Yes .. he has right. And I (or any person) have right to formulate reaction, on his action :) Everyone (and JV also) are responsible for their behavior.

"unless they dont want to build a competitive team."

And that's what make me angry :( ... and ... amuse me also :) Like I said .. he won something ten years, ago and he is god of all gods :) And that he was beaten by Heidfeld, Massa, Button, fired by BMW, BAR ... not needed by Renault, McLaren, Ferrari, Williams dosen't mean anything hehe. Because ... "if, if, if, if, if" (the story of JV fans) ..

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he has the right to insult the whole BMW team, since they need him as he said, unless they dont want to build a competitive team.

Thats crap!

Do you think JV is the only one who can develop a team?

That rookies have no chance to show they can do it too?

Look what kimi was capable of in his second year in F1.

In the last few races all JV was doing was pushing too hard and breaking too many chassis.

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"I've led races, I've won races, he told F1 Racing magazine. I know how to do that.

Isnt it just as well JV has a good long memory :blink: Really who does he think he is???? I used to have a lot of time for him but his stupid comments about MS the other day & now this just make me laugh :P I mean does he really think that in 20 years people wont remember MS - for some it may be for all the wrong reasons but every F1 will remember him - JV will be remembered as a 1 (not 7) times WDC & as his much more famous fathers son.

And as for his more recent statement above - yeaj Jacques you won & lead races but a very very long time ago - you havent exactly done much since then - for this 1 reason i hope now BMW do well in the future & show him exactly how little he's missed - Jacques who????

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I hope JV mouths off some more, this 3 week break has been very boring and the only thing of interest in the news (until the 22nd) is JV's ranting. Maybe someone should prod MS with a stick, try to get him to react instead of just taking it.

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OK... I'm back again... after reading this I just couldn't help responding:

Michael is still on top because he can offer his team something more than pure driving skills. I'm surprised, that you didn't know that. He is a great team player (thing which is completly unknown for Jacques), who knows how team wokrs, and knew what persons should be in Ferrari, in 1996, to make this team great again. This is the pfenomen of Schumi. He is not making bad allusion to his team (like JV, when something isn't right for him), that's why he is able to bring best of the best operating personnel. It's not my imagination.
Michael has done a lot for Ferrari no doubt. But to assert that HE is the sole CAUSE of their success is ludicrous. Just look back at last year to see what happens when any team doesn't provide a top driver with a race winning machine. Alonso doubled up the grand-master himself. He did a great job in a fantasticly built Renault and took the title. Bottom line: a great driver does NOT a world champion make. And as for JV's lack of 'teamwork' why don't you talk to Giampaolo D'allara and Jock Clear to see what they think, or maybe Frank, Peter, Flav, Geoff, Pat... these men all seemed to speak nothing but praise for Jacques' ability to give invaluable technical feedback and his natural 'feel' for set-ups and tweaking.
Ehh....no comments.

Very good... you have learned much from Schumi indeed. I do apologize for the emotional outburst on my part, went a little too far there perhaps. No hard feelings I hope :thbup:

Why? Richards and Mario are/were so stupid??
Simply put: yes and yes. Richards got booted by BAT for being a dunce and Herr Ned Flanders... in time you will see how brilliant he really is. Unless there are major changes with the BMW operation they are destined for mediocrity IMHO much like their association with Williams.
Renault team also??

Alonso and Fisi were locked down for the next year, simple as that. JV was to Trulli what Kubica is to JV right now. And it was also great publicity for Renault at the time as well.

Or Frank Williams. They have such a gem and they let him leave?
Frank wanted desperately to keep him and this is no secret at all. At the end of the day the CP link was just too strong and of course to some degree money talks and BS walks -- JV had 20+ million reasons to leave Williams waiting for him at BAR. What would YOU do?
You see, it's interesting from my point of view, that JV, a great driver, with great presonality was fired by BAR, BMW (in the middle of the season), his career with Renault last for 3 races, and Frank W. never want him after 98. As you said, JV had the best season since 2003 (and that's true) but why F1 not want him ?? Why the only team who want him was Midland/Lost Boys? Why McLaren, Ferrari, Renault, Toyota, RBR, BMW, Williams aren't interested in gain JV. It was clear for everyone that JV won't be a BMW driver in 2007 ... so why he is now leaving F1 without any serious offer?

I've already addressed this 'firing' argument. Frank wanted him to stay, so get your facts straight there. I never said anything about JV having his best season since 03, but ok I'll agree with you that he is. Why no one wants him is a complex combination of many factors... for instance this new fetish with taking young, unproven, cheap drivers and gambling on finding the 'next one'. And naturally JV, at 35 years old and no wins in 10 years is just not that attractive a package any more. He's got maybe 2 years left so the potential risk/reward ratio leans heavily towards taking a chance on a young guy who may turn into a star that wins races for many years to come.

You know why DC still is in RBR? Not because he is greater driver than JV. But because his attitude is always high and positive. He isn't big mouth. He knows how to work with engineers, cooperate with team. And you remember situation JV in Williams? How he was talking that he has no respect for most of his team personnel ?? The story, how he setup his car?? It was clearly, that he's not gambler who is able to make progress with the team (be part of it). And that's why his "own" BAR fired him. There are so many stories about JV and BAR .. but most of them don't blame Richards, but Jacques. JV is great egoist, with ill ego.
JV butted heads with Patrick Head. So did Monty, so did many others. PH is not a guy who likes his drivers telling him what they want. JV is a driver who always is extremely vocal about what he wants. Besides, a little friction may not be such a bad thing -- keeps everyone on their toes. And oh yeah, a WDC and WCC resulted from JV/Williams relationship, so don't know what you're getting at there.

Let me paint a little picture for you with regards to BAR... you just don't seem to get this one. Let's say you're working at a big company and have a great relationship with the CEO who sees you as something of a protege and driving force behind the company. Suddenly this CEO gets canned and a new one arrives on the scene. This new guy naturally wants to distance himself as much as possible with the 'old regime' and build a new success story his way under his rules and with his vision. Thus he cleans ship and gets rid of many of the incumbent old boys and puts together his own team of people to show the board of directors that he's making meaningful changes and will not accept the status quo -- otherwise what was the point of hiring the new CEO in the first place? ... This story happens ALL THE TIME in the business world, and hey, F1 is definitely business-oriented nowadays, so why is it so hard for you to understand that DAVE RICHARDS WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH JACQUES VILLENEUVE FROM DAY ONE.

And about blaming Jacques and not DR, let me take you back to the little corporate analogy. If the new CEO decides to keep you on board and sack the protege do you honestly think you would come out and criticize his decision and blame him for canning a valuable asset? If you answer yes to this question, I hope you are not considering a career in the business world. If you were a good little corporate piggy you would probably come out and support the CEO for removing a cancerous element of the firm and showing such impeccable gusto and vision (i.e. you would kiss his corporate arse). I'll let you think about which outcome is more likely.

You see ?? He stil thinks, that he is a star. That he "owns" team. His ego is ill ... with such treatment you are unable to make positive effects on your team. That's why he end with BAR, BMW in such bad circumstances. Why nobody want him - Even is he was right in some fields.

Broken record here... same old arguments.

Hakkinen or Schumi probably will won in 1994 and 1997 (in Williams) in the middle of the season. Not in the last race
Please tell me where you bought your crystal ball... I've always wanted one of my own. PURE speculation with nothing to back you up here.
I wish JV all the best. But for god sake ... shut up! Jacques.

Uh huh... you incessantly trash the guy, his abilities, his validity as a world champion, but you wish him all the best. Either you have a dual personality or your kind heartedness is just not all that genuine.

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OK... I'm back again...

Why bother :unsure:

Funny how you've just appeared at a time when YHR seems to have gone AWOL. Are you YHR in disguise :o

I get the impression that you think you are addressing a bunch of occassional F1 fans that dont have any knowledge or experience of the sport over the last 10/15 years. There are many knowledgeable members on here that know their stuff, so dont try to paint a picture that doesn't reflect the facts as it ultimately reflects on you.

Your undoubted vast knowledge is wasted in your attempt to prove that JV is something that he is not. Give up as most on here cannot be converted as we, like you, have witnessed JV's F1 career.

Just my opinion so there <_<

Ahhh...wonderful stuff, Vinsane, wonderful stuff.... :thbup:

Why dont you get a room :lol:

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I get the impression that you think you are addressing a bunch of occassional F1 fans that dont have any knowledge or experience of the sport over the last 10/15 years.

Going by the logic of the posts made by 95% of the Schumi fans on this BB one cannot be blamed for thinking they are either that or brain damaged...

Why dont you get a room :lol:

Who say they have not? :lol:

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"Michael has done a lot for Ferrari no doubt. But to assert that HE is the sole CAUSE of their success is ludicrous."

I just said, that Michael, is not only a great driver. But also a man, who really knows how team works, and knows how to make team better. Nothing more. And that's the true. He is not big-mouth, he's not criticizing his team if something isn't ok. That's why, he still is in the best team :) Wrong thinking? Not at all in my opiniom :) People who works with MS appreciating him as a person, as a team "builder". When MS went to Ferrari, he took the best engineers, mechanics with him. When MS go away, most of the greatest Ferrari staff also. Like JT like Ross Brown. When he went to Ferrari, this team was ... medicore. Alesi and Berger were just a good drivers, but nothing more. The renesans of Ferrari is linked with MS. You can love or hate Shumi ... but this ability made him 7 times world champion. And that's why he still is in the Ferrari, for such ill salary :) We should appreciate this fact. Even JV should. Specially him.

"And as for JV's lack of 'teamwork' why don't you talk to "

I don't need to. This thing is obvius. And after the last days, when JV was talking about "drivers role" .. I will take it for granted. Even no need to back to BAR, BMW and Patrick Head times. If he was so great ... he would be a second Schumi now. With his trusted employes, which go with you wherever you go. Or at least a second DC. Who stil is in RBR beacuse of his experience ... but not at "how to make teams stinking", but how to make development with team. And "driver" experience is not most important now ... like JV thinks (as i read him). But experience in what way team should work, to be "greater". And when we look at JV history ... he was rather destroyer, than builder. And that's he is out of F1.

"do apologize for the emotional outburst on my part"

Nothing happend :) Everyhting is ok :)

"Simply put: yes and yes. Richards got booted by BAT for being a dunce and Herr Ned Flanders... in time you will see how brilliant he really is."

Hard to say but in my opinion DR made BAR one of the greatest team in 2004. Second behind Ferrari. And Button was one of the best drivers. When he left, things at Honda are going to worst :(

"Frank wanted desperately to keep him and this is no secret at all"

Hmm...I think, that thinks were much more complicated. As with Damon Hill year earlier. But ... the best thing in my opinion is to leave this thema alone. It's not important in my opinion. But if you want .... Anyway he made worst thing, that Alesi when he left Ferrari to Benetton ;) I'm joking :)

"Why no one wants him is a complex combination of many factors... for instance this new fetish with taking young, unproven, cheap drivers and gambling on finding the 'next one'"

Why no one wants him I told in this post earlier. And .. it's natural thing that teams searching for second Schumi, Alonso or Raikonen. Specially when "lower" teams have medicore pay-dviers line-up. JV like you said, is 35, rather not the BMW future. And future is most importnent for BMW. Not this year .. this year means practicly nothing. That's why raplaced JV with Kubica.

"F1 is definitely business-oriented nowadays, so why is it so hard for you to understand that DAVE RICHARDS WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH JACQUES VILLENEUVE FROM DAY ONE."

So he was extremyl lucky :D;) I'm talking about Richards. But in my opinion he wanted money, for a car. Not for a medicore driver - JV. Who thinks, that is a star (even now). He wanted responsibles drivers .. and as we see last days .. JV is rather big-mouth driver, with ego much grater than his drivers abilities (specialy since 2003 included). Remember what he was talking about Button before he came to the teame? In XXI century JV was better in talking, than driving. But it's my opinion. You can think something else ... people are diffrent.

"Either you have a dual personality or your kind heartedness is just not all that genuine."

I'm trying to be nice. With respect to former WDC .. It will be interesting to see him in a decent F1 car and see what he can do .. but ... let's face it. He is over .. and after last days .. he' over for good.

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JV said Senna too did dirty acts, but since Senna told beforehand about what he was going to do, his acts are classy. Well, going by JV's logic, if a rapist tells his victim beforehand that he's gonna knock her up,it will be a "classy rape". JV's suffering from verbal diarrhoea.

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no.MS wsa not disqualified in '96 by a canadian fia president,in the pretext that he cut a chicane.

so the 2 instances are not comparable.

payback Vs crime

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Why bother :unsure:

Funny how you've just appeared at a time when YHR seems to have gone AWOL. Are you YHR in disguise :o

I get the impression that you think you are addressing a bunch of occassional F1 fans that dont have any knowledge or experience of the sport over the last 10/15 years. There are many knowledgeable members on here that know their stuff, so dont try to paint a picture that doesn't reflect the facts as it ultimately reflects on you.

Your undoubted vast knowledge is wasted in your attempt to prove that JV is something that he is not. Give up as most on here cannot be converted as we, like you, have witnessed JV's F1 career.

Just my opinion so there <_<

Why dont you get a room :lol:

Fedup

Kind of a lame rebuttal you've got to a well put together defence of JV by Vinsane. If you think Vinsane is painting a picture that does not reflect the facts then maybe you ought to point out those facts that he has got wrong and correct him on it. No one is attempting to convert you, just correct you.

Just my opinion.

The "get a room" comment is unnecessary.

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Going by the logic of the posts made by 95% of the Schumi fans on this BB one cannot be blamed for thinking they are either that or brain damaged...

Who say they have not? :lol:

hey i take offence to that :angry:

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Fedup

Kind of a lame rebuttal you've got to a well put together defence of JV by Vinsane. If you think Vinsane is painting a picture that does not reflect the facts then maybe you ought to point out those facts that he has got wrong and correct him on it. No one is attempting to convert you, just correct you.

Just my opinion.

The "get a room" comment is unnecessary.

Look my friend, I have been posting on here for over a year with nearly 1500 posts. I have heard all the JV arguments time and time again. Vinsane hasn't written anything new - Infact, his posts are reminiscent of those written by YHR, so my rebuttals are well documented.

You turn up less than 1 week ago and start trying to tell me what's what - No point :nono1:

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You ahould not as it's all in good fun Irish ;)

ok ill let you off - just this once mind :P

i do admit that some MS fans are a wee bit blindsighted when it comes to the maestro, im not too bad :lol: i can admit it when MS makes mistakes - well i will when he first makes one :mf_tongue::D

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I was hoping that the forum would get done with its JV vs MS shout fest so that I could actually read about interesting F1 topics....but sigh.... :(

hopefully this is just fans venting during the 3 week break and the forum would be fun again after this weekend...

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ok ill let you off - just this once mind :P

i do admit that some MS fans are a wee bit blindsighted when it comes to the maestro, im not too bad :lol: i can admit it when MS makes mistakes - well i will when he first makes one :mf_tongue::D

mistakes....where should i start? :lol::lol::lol:;)

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I was hoping that the forum would get done with its JV vs MS shout fest so that I could actually read about interesting F1 topics....but sigh.... :(

hopefully this is just fans venting during the 3 week break and the forum would be fun again after this weekend...

If you have an interesting topic please for the love of god make a thread!

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ok ill let you off - just this once mind :P

i do admit that some MS fans are a wee bit blindsighted when it comes to the maestro, im not too bad :lol: i can admit it when MS makes mistakes - well i will when he first makes one :mf_tongue::D

Its not just the tifosis whom get blinded by their admiration for their team/driver. I openly admit that I must be one of the most bias, hot-headed, raging posters on the BB.

I have taken this weeks events into consideration and will (hopefully) from now on be a changed, all new BB member. No less biased, but less fuming :lol:

I was hoping that the forum would get done with its JV vs MS shout fest so that I could actually read about interesting F1 topics....but sigh.... :(

hopefully this is just fans venting during the 3 week break and the forum would be fun again after this weekend...

OMG, how right you are. These summer breakes should be illegal. Not even testing going on and what one is left with are nothing but crumbs spewed out by an even hungrier press... :angry:

Well, only three more sleeps and the action is back on. I must say, I am prepared for the race. No, appointments, plenty of good food and drink to come, and to top it off, no girlfriend wanting to see whats on the other channels B)

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