Sudarshan the shumi fan

JV Talking Too Much And Trying To Show Off

106 posts in this topic

Its not just the tifosis whom get blinded by their admiration for their team/driver. I openly admit that I must be one of the most bias, hot-headed, raging posters on the BB.

I have taken this weeks events into consideration and will (hopefully) from now on be a changed, all new BB member. No less biased, but less fuming :lol:

OMG, how right you are. These summer breakes should be illegal. Not even testing going on and what one is left with are nothing but crumbs spewed out by an even hungrier press... :angry:

Well, only three more sleeps and the action is back on. I must say, I am prepared for the race. No, appointments, plenty of good food and drink to come, and to top it off, no girlfriend wanting to see whats on the other channels B)

you are wise man I must say, I usually break up with my girlfriend during F1 Season, and get back together in the off season. But looks like the off/testing season in the coming year will be very interesting too, so no more girlfriend for me, unless I can find me a hot tifosi lady for me self :wub:

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The three week break thing is the biggest joke, this is the time where the guys at the factories work like hell to regroup and replace the old parts, and to make enough sets of new aero package parts for Monza.

Its far from a break in this area.

Edited by c21

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you are wise man I must say, I usually break up with my girlfriend during F1 Season, and get back together in the off season. But looks like the off/testing season in the coming year will be very interesting too, so no more girlfriend for me, unless I can find me a hot tifosi lady for me self :wub:

oooh im looking for a hot tifosi guy :kiss::P:P

believe it or not it can be just as hard for a girl to find a bloke whos as into F1 as they are :wacko:

I have taken this weeks events into consideration and will (hopefully) from now on be a changed, all new BB member. No less biased, but less fuming :lol:

that will be interesting to see :D there will be many posters hanging around to see if you can stick to this - especially now they have it in writing :P

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oooh im looking for a hot tifosi guy :kiss::P:P

:wub: lets get married me lady, then we can watch the sun setting on the straights of monza :whistling:

Edited by stopkidding

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Look my friend, I have been posting on here for over a year with nearly 1500 posts. I have heard all the JV arguments time and time again. Vinsane hasn't written anything new - Infact, his posts are reminiscent of those written by YHR, so my rebuttals are well documented.

You turn up less than 1 week ago and start trying to tell me what's what - No point

For the record I am most definitely a new poster who has no previous links to this BB under alternate aliases. So your suspicions with respect to this are false. So feel free to reach into the vault and grab some of those rebuttals. I would be most interested in hearing what your thoughts are on this subject. And my identity should be of little relevance anyways.

Frankly Fedup, I don't care if you have 1 post or 10,000 -- and only once were my posts in response to your comments.

As Fer highlighted, and I originally mentioned when I made my first couple of posts I am not here to bash MS. He is a worthy champion and a hell of a driver. My simple aim was and still is to defend JV against ridiculously skewed versions of the truth, assertions made based on speculation rather than fact, and in several cases outright fallacies.

I am not in the conversion business - if you or anyone else doesn't care for JV then so be it. In reality there is very little I could ever do to convert such folks. But if you want to go spouting off absolute hogwash to support your anti-JV views then you should be prepared for a rebuttal. And in that respect I endeavour to remain free of becoming a blind, venomous zealot and try to stick to historical facts and opinions (biased as they may be) that are founded on such facts.

And so I invite and encourage you or anyone else who doesn't agree with what I say to highlight if and where you take issue with my comments and we can discuss and debate in a civil manner. I consider my exchange with Buczer to be a heated, but fair example of the type of discussion I'm looking to engage in.

If you want to sharpen your claws and spew rubbish related to my identity, my personality, etc. you can also go right ahead and add to your post count if that makes you happy. It just waters down the conversation and hurts your own credibility at the end of the day, so please be my guest :)

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And so I invite and encourage you or anyone else who doesn't agree with what I say to highlight if and where you take issue with my comments and we can discuss and debate in a civil manner.

I'll pass if you dont mind -_-

No point falling out on subjective issues, best to agree to disagree ;)

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Why dont you get a room :lol:

If all the posts on this forum were as well written and thought-out as Vinsane's, I would not have felt so happy reading his (hers?). As it is, those posts are like water in the Sahara...

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If all the posts on this forum were as well written and thought-out as Vinsane's, I would not have felt so happy reading his (hers?). As it is, those posts are like water in the Sahara...

You puzzle me here :blink: Vinsane has not said anything that hasn't been debated at length on this BB over the past year or so.

Whilst I accept he is knowledgeable, alot of his arguments are subjective interpretations of history. YHR, who IMHO was JV's biggest champion, used to back up his arguments with facts.

Each to their own I guess ;)

P.S cant wait for CAV to respond to Vinsane's posts, I just dont have the energy to argue on semantics.

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YHR's comments were rarely a quotation of facts, but were his extrapolations of the facts. Mostly he was correct, but sometimes he was off-the-mark. Vinsane is much the same way, but his writing style is refreshing and to the point as well as being near to 100% correct.

Others (like Funkejay, me, YHR) have been saying these truths about Jacques to no avail. If you dislike the driver for some reason, then state that reason, even if it's simply 'I just don't like the look of the guy', but please don't try to refute facts or distort reality to give your argument more weight.

So far, no one has credibly refuted anything Vinsane has said.

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Why all this love for JV? he has not done squat for 9 years, sign me 'just curious'

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Why all this love for JV? he has not done squat for 9 years, sign me 'just curious'

C'mon Bruce, you've seen him back in the day (CART) and you know he's fast. Vinsane went along way to explaining those 9 years and he (she?) was correct. I can accept bashing a guy because you don't like him, but there's been way too much bashing of his speed and talent without anyone really being correct about it. The guy is leaving, but this is the last chance for us JV supporters to try to get everybody to see the light!

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Why all this love for JV? he has not done squat for 9 years, sign me 'just curious'

Maybe because he has something that Schumacher will never have...

Humanity...

and dont start with all the money given in charity, its like the parents that gives money, no love.

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Maybe because he has something that Schumacher will never have...

Humanity...

and dont start with all the money given in charity, its like the parents that gives money, no love.

and in the same spirit,

"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome."

and in my books, JV will always remain a true blue maverick, the kind a sport of F1 would see only in generations of Villeneuves...

I have been ignoring a lot of the JV/MS crap on the forums, I was personally disappointed by some of the comments the man made, but you can never argue against the talent and the values JV brought to the sport. Many including myself have considered his extended stay at BAR to be almost foolish. But for JV it was fighting for what he believed in, a dream called BAR. He could have given up and moved to Renault at one time bringing him almost certain success and glory, but JV chose the harder path of making a dream come true at BAR. It was his courage that makes him a legend of the sport, surely some one will come and win championships and garner all the glory. JV was among those who chose to fight the tough fights, harder than those on the track. The fight to believe in what is right, and in today's F1, I will take that over Schumi's 3 world championships...

Edited by stopkidding

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and in the same spirit,

"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome."

and in my books, JV will always remain a true blue maverick, the kind a sport of F1 would see only in generations of Villeneuves...

I have been ignoring a lot of the JV/MS crap on the forums, I was personally disappointed by some of the comments the man made, but you can never argue against the talent and the values JV brought to the sport. Many including myself have considered his extended stay at BAR to be almost foolish. But for JV it was fighting for what he believed in, a dream called BAR. He could have given up and moved to Renault at one time bringing him almost certain success and glory, but JV chose the harder path of making a dream come true at BAR. It was his courage that makes him a legend of the sport, surely some one will come and win championships and garner all the glory. JV was among those who chose to fight the tough fights, harder than those on the track. The fight to believe in what is right, and in today's F1, I will take that over Schumi's 3 world championships...

maybe you should stop kiding yourself (yes pun intended)

JV's tallent is average, in 97 you saw what an average driver does with a car leaps and bounds ahead of the others, in 02 and 04 you saw what a great driver does with a car leaps and bounds ahead. JV didnt pick BAR, Renault didnt want JV anymore so he went to the only place that would take him.

JV fans say hes tallented and has shown he has adapted. I really cant find any trueth in that. JV, MS, DC all have driven in three very distinct generations of F1 cars, ones that were still reliant on mechanical grip to now where Aero is almost 80%. JV was the one who adapted the least. you always heard him complain on the lack of mech grip instead of buttoning down and learning how to drive.

I am not blinded my MS's greatness and i can see he makes mistakes but i have to say Senna set the pressident and when MS does the same thing its the biggest hupla ever. JV has lived of off his last name and now its finaly run dry. i say thx to BMW for getting rid of him.

RK gave a one word awnser as to why he was chosen over JV, that was: Pace. and from what i saw in hungry i beleive him. JV's time was over years ago, hes like that kid in highschool who always hung out around you thinking you were his friend but didnt see that you really didnt want him around.

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maybe you should stop kiding yourself (yes pun intended)

JV's tallent is average, in 97 you saw what an average driver does with a car leaps and bounds ahead of the others, in 02 and 04 you saw what a great driver does with a car leaps and bounds ahead. JV didnt pick BAR, Renault didnt want JV anymore so he went to the only place that would take him.

JV fans say hes tallented and has shown he has adapted. I really cant find any trueth in that. JV, MS, DC all have driven in three very distinct generations of F1 cars, ones that were still reliant on mechanical grip to now where Aero is almost 80%. JV was the one who adapted the least. you always heard him complain on the lack of mech grip instead of buttoning down and learning how to drive.

I am not blinded my MS's greatness and i can see he makes mistakes but i have to say Senna set the pressident and when MS does the same thing its the biggest hupla ever. JV has lived of off his last name and now its finaly run dry. i say thx to BMW for getting rid of him.

RK gave a one word awnser as to why he was chosen over JV, that was: Pace. and from what i saw in hungry i beleive him. JV's time was over years ago, hes like that kid in highschool who always hung out around you thinking you were his friend but didnt see that you really didnt want him around.

some people will never see it. and I am perfectly happy if it stays that way....

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Alonso and Fisi were locked down for the next year, simple as that. JV was to Trulli what Kubica is to JV right now. And it was also great publicity for Renault at the time as well

Flavio Briatore felt Villeneuve would be worth a gamble. Although vowing to help Renault achieve second place in the constructors championship (ahead of his former team BAR), Villeneuve failed to score a single point, unable to finish any of his races on the lead lap;Jacques admitted that the enforced lay-off had cost him vital seat time. With the cars so much faster than in 2003 he found it difficult to adapt and with Fernando Alonso as team-mate his task was made all the more difficult. The young Spaniard was naturally much faster. Just before his 3-race Renault comeback, Villeneuve signed a two-year contract to drive for Sauber, starting in 2005.

Frank wanted desperately to keep him and this is no secret at all. At the end of the day the CP link was just too strong and of course to some degree money talks and BS walks -- JV had 20+ million reasons to leave Williams waiting for him at BAR. What would YOU do?

Frank wanted him to stay

Villeneuve's career went into sharp decline following his drivers championship. Remaining with Williams in 1998, he struggled with an underpowered Mecachrome engine, and failed to win a single race. His fifth in the standings was disappointing for a title defence. Two third places (at Hockenheim and the Hungaroring) and a front-row grid slot at Monza were the only highlights.
Let me paint a little picture for you with regards to BAR... you just don't seem to get this one. Let's say you're working at a big company and have a great relationship with the CEO who sees you as something of a protege and driving force behind the company. Suddenly this CEO gets canned and a new one arrives on the scene. This new guy naturally wants to distance himself as much as possible with the 'old regime' and build a new success story his way under his rules and with his vision. Thus he cleans ship and gets rid of many of the incumbent old boys and puts together his own team of people to show the board of directors that he's making meaningful changes and will not accept the status quo -- otherwise what was the point of hiring the new CEO in the first place? ... This story happens ALL THE TIME in the business world, and hey, F1 is definitely business-oriented nowadays, so why is it so hard for you to understand that DAVE RICHARDS WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH JACQUES VILLENEUVE FROM DAY ONE

At the end of 2001 a major managerial reshuffle took place. Villeneuve's friend and manager Pollock was sacked, Prodrive boss David Richards taking over. From this point on, Villeneuve felt less comfortable at the team. 2002 was a poor year, with the team slipping backwards in terms of pace. Points were scarce and it was not until the middle of the year that Villeneuve scored any, a fourth at Silverstone his best result in 2002. With one year left to run on his contract Villeneuve turned down a lucrative offer to spend a season racing in CART before returning to BAR for 2004 and 2005. Instead he decided that he would see out his present deal in the hope of landing a role at another grand prix team the following year. Bitter public rows between himself and Richards over salary soured the relationship further. 2003 saw Villeneuve come under harsh media criticism for being regularly outpaced by his younger (and less experienced) teammate, Jenson Button. Many critics also questioned Villeneuve's reported $19 million annual salary, given that he scored a meager six championship points that year

His Sauber debut at the Australian Grand Prix was remarkable only for his (weather assisted) P4 starting position. For the opening three races he was the slowest driver on Michelin tyres and rumours began to spread that he would soon be replaced. The rumours proved unfounded and at Imola he managed to score his first points for the team. The pressure was soon back on him when he forced team-mate Felipe Massa off the track when attempting an over-ambitious overtaking move in Monaco, ruining both their races. Towards the end of the season, his pace improved and he scored more points at Belgium, moving ahead of Massa in the championship tables, although Massa repassed him after finishing 6th in the season finale in China

Source;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Villeneuve

Edited by Fed up

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You are quoting Wikipedia as a source??!!?? That is almost, but not quite, as credible as qouting a forum post...

For those of you who don't know, Wikipedia entries are thrown together like a cheap quilt from anonymous internet users (much like forums). Beware what you read there, as errors and opinion run rampant.

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Hey leave the guy alone man, he's made it as WC in his second year, helped BAR progressed, added valuable input to every team he's been to, and not afraid to speak his mind. He's got balls for sure, and adds some character to the sport thats becoming duller and duller by the moment. No wonder Flavio's comments on Kimi's antics being like a breath of fresh air.

He's taking MS head on here, makes for some interesting headlines and thoughts....

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You are quoting Wikipedia as a source??!!?? That is almost, but not quite, as credible as qouting a forum post...

For those of you who don't know, Wikipedia entries are thrown together like a cheap quilt from anonymous internet users (much like forums). Beware what you read there, as errors and opinion run rampant.

So what is it that you refute?

It is very clear from the Wiki site that JV had an outstanding career that peaked with his WDC in 1997. His move to BAR would have been viewed as being no worse than staying at Williams with their Renault engines so I dont judge him for being part of that project - Perhaps a bit of humility would have endeared him to fans outside of N/America.

IMHO I think JV has struggled to keep pace with the changing characteristics of F1 cars over the years. His comeback performance with Renault was dreadful and I cant help comparing it with MS's performance on return from his leg break when he was at least 1 second a lap faster than the opposition. If a driver is fast, he will remain fast regardless..

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You are quoting Wikipedia as a source??!!?? That is almost, but not quite, as credible as qouting a forum post...

For those of you who don't know, Wikipedia entries are thrown together like a cheap quilt from anonymous internet users (much like forums). Beware what you read there, as errors and opinion run rampant.

Not only that, Wikipedia can be altered by anyone whom decides/bothers to register. I have altered plenty of pages for fun (mostly on politicians) and they have stayed unchanged for months.

Wikipedia has generally totally unrelaible and totally biased information :thbdn:

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Not only that, Wikipedia can be altered by anyone whom decides/bothers to register. I have altered plenty of pages for fun (mostly on politicians) and they have stayed unchanged for months.

Wikipedia has generally totally unrelaible and totally biased information :thbdn:

:eusa_think:

What do you refute on the Wiki site regarding JV.

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:eusa_think:

What do you refute on the Wiki site regarding JV.

Well, the article leaves a lot to be desired.

Just one point: 'For the opening three races he was the slowest driver on Michelin tyres and rumours began to spread that he would soon be replaced'. I mean, this article is written by someone wjhom do not know his stuff. JV was slow because he was not allowed to do his own set-up. When he was his pace subsequently improved.

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Well, the article leaves a lot to be desired.

Just one point: 'For the opening three races he was the slowest driver on Michelin tyres and rumours began to spread that he would soon be replaced'. I mean, this article is written by someone wjhom do not know his stuff. JV was slow because he was not allowed to do his own set-up. When he was his pace subsequently improved.

This is exactly what I mean about you JV supporters, you are sometimes blind to facts :blink:

The article clearly states that JV goes on to recover, but he WAS the slowest Michellin driver for the first 3 races - Fact!

If you follow F1 you will also know that there were rumours that Sauber wanted him replaced, this is not news. It was a good job JV signed his Sauber contract before his Renault drive.

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This is exactly what I mean about you JV supporters, you are sometimes blind to facts :blink:

The article clearly states that JV goes on to recover, but he WAS the slowest Michellin driver for the first 3 races - Fact!

If you follow F1 you will also know that there were rumours that Sauber wanted him replaced, this is not news. It was a good job JV signed his Sauber contract before his Renault drive.

Listen, just so you know, I am no JV supporter, I just fancy him more as a person than I do Schu.

Regardless, the article should mention why he was slow. Its like Kimi being the fastest bastart around in 2005 but due to his machinery being (I hate to admit this) of Eritrean quality one only sum the season up by saying that he won some races but was in the end not quick enough to beat Alosno. Get it?

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maybe you should stop kiding yourself (yes pun intended)

JV's tallent is average, in 97 you saw what an average driver does with a car leaps and bounds ahead of the others, in 02 and 04 you saw what a great driver does with a car leaps and bounds ahead.

I guess Kimi is a pretty average driver too eh????????? :eusa_think:

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