Alonso Up To His Tricks Again

[Wez 0]

Alonso consistantly out qualified & out raced much quicker cars in 2001 in possibly the worst Minardi of all time!

[Schumikonen 2]

Alonso got alot of attention from other team's when driving a Minardi, no major achievements there but the top talent spotter in F1 got him under contract after it and achievments followed shortly after. He was mostly at the back of the finishing order in 2001, getting the car to finish was more then his teammate could do most of the time though and even sometimes he was beating other's in faster car's *cough*Fifi*cough*. It's more how to drive in situation's rather then what you achieve that shows talent.

2002 and 2004 MS got achievements, even if here was any talent used you couldnt tell because of Ferrari's supperior car's.

When you say no mayor achivement you are saying that he had some achivement and the underlined area show other achivements too, so like I said you cannot have talent without achivement.

Alonso consistantly out qualified & out raced much quicker cars in 2001 in possibly the worst Minardi of all time!

That's another achivement so I think that my point is clear, no talent without achivement. and if is so, Michael talent can be messure by his achivement. When he start racing in F1 he was just one race in a jordan, he didn't spent a full season in a minor team like Alonso, so his talent was (and is) bigger if you compare both driver's begining, Michael won his first race in his first full season in F1 in 1992 finishing third in the WDC and becoming WDC just two years later 1994.

I don't have to tell the rest of the story because it's not over yet...

[schumi13 0]

Alonso consistantly out qualified & out raced much quicker cars in 2001 in possibly the worst Minardi of all time!

Yeah very true. He did beat Fisi a few times and other cars too but he was also catching Fisi in the 2001 Spanish Grand Prix I think. Alonso is a great driver no doubt.

[Wez 0]

That's another achivement so I think that my point is clear, no talent without achivement. and if is so, Michael talent can be messure by his achivement. When he start racing in F1 he was just one race in a jordan, he didn't spent a full season in a minor team like Alonso, so his talent was (and is) bigger if you compare both driver's begining, Michael won his first race in his first full season in F1 in 1992 finishing third in the WDC and becoming WDC just two years later 1994.

I don't have to tell the rest of the story because it's not over yet...

HUH????

Alonso was only 19 when he made his debut, with very little experiance. Flav obviously just wanted to give him time too mature.

[Schumikonen 2]

Alonso got alot of attention from other team's when driving a Minardi,

Like I told you Schumi was in Joprdan just one race, he was not even in attention from other team, he was just taken because he was so good.

And let me tell you something about Kimi he has done something bigger that Alnoso too, he did not had a backgroung in F-3000 or any other kind of cars like those, he was just racing in a small formula cathegory before he was taken to F-1, maybe somebody can help me with this, but he just raced like 26 races there and he was taken to F-1 and he didn't had the necessary milage that he need to get the FIA superlicense when he started so he on probe a part of the season and there he still is, he just barely lost the WDC last year and he is standing like one of the biggest in the grid today, that's talent, real talent.

HUH????

Alonso was only 19 when he made his debut, with very little experiance. Flav obviously just wanted to give him time too mature.

Why he didn't give time to mature to schu in 1992? don't you need experience too in F-1 or you just need to be mature?

What about Kimi?

[Wez 0]

Why he didn't give time to mature to schu in 1992? don't you need experience too in F-1 or you just need to be mature?

Because Schumacher didnt have a sealed contract with Jordan & Benetton needed a half decent driver at the time. And as I said Alonso was only 19 when he made his debut, Schumacher was 22!

What about Kimi?

Kimi Drove in a rubbish team for 2 season! Whats your point?

[Schumikonen 2]

Because Schumacher didnt have a sealed contract with Jordan & Benetton needed a half decent driver at the time. And as I said Alonso was only 19 when he made his debut, Schumacher was 22!

You call a half decent driver to someone that had just a qualify session experience and no race experence, because Schumi was out in his first lap, do you remember that?

After that he was taken to Benneton, is that a half decent driver?

[Player(1) 0]

Like I told you Schumi was in Joprdan just one race, he was not even in attention from other team, he was just taken because he was so good.

And up until 2005 apparently that was the only time he was in a car not capable of challenging for championships.

And let me tell you something about Kimi he has done something bigger that Alnoso too, he did not had a backgroung in F-3000 or any other kind of cars like those, he was just racing in a small formula cathegory before he was taken to F-1, maybe somebody can help me with this, but he just raced like 26 races there and he was taken to F-1 and he didn't had the necessary milage that he need to get the FIA superlicense when he started so he on probe a part of the season and there he still is, he just barely lost the WDC last year and he is standing like one of the biggest in the grid today, that's talent, real talent.

yea being the most "unpolished" of top F1 driver's most likely is why he hasent won a championship yet and won't without much superior machinery to overcome his flaw's honestly if MS and Kimi are at Ferrari i'd bet on the old man out thinking Kimi to the championship.

Why he didn't give time to mature to schu in 1992? don't you need experience too in F-1 or you just need to be mature?

What about Kimi?

english please?

[Schumikonen 2]

Kimi Background

1987 - First time in kart

1988 - Karting, some wins in Classes A, B and C

1989 - Karting, some wins in Classes A, B and C

1990 - Karting, some wins in Classes A, B and C

1991 - National karting, Class Mini

1992 - National karting, Class Raket Junior

1993 - National karting, Class Raket, Finnish Cup, 9th overall.

1994 - National karting, Class Raket, Finnisch Cup, 2nd overall.

1995 - Formula A Karting: first race, and first win, 23rd April.

1996 - Karting Grand Prix (European Series)World Championship races and Nordic Championship racesno wins in Finnish Championship, Class Formula A, finished 4th overall

1997 - Finnish Championship, Class Intercontinental A, ChampionNordic Championship, Class Intercontinental A, 4th overallKarting Grand Prix and World Championship races - invited to drive with Peter de Bruin Team

1998 - Lived in the NetherlandsFinnish Championship, class Formula A, ChampionNordic Championship, ChampionClass Formula Intercontinental A, European Karting Grand Prix, winner; Super A, 2nd overallMonaco Cup, class Super A, 3rd overallWorld Championship, Formula Super A, retired from 7th position

1999 - Finnish Championship, Class Formula A, 2nd overallWorld Championship, class Formula Super A, 10thFirst Formula Renault race, with Haywood Racing, 3rdFormula Renault Winter Series, with Manor Motorsport - winner, four wins from four races

2000 - British Renault 2000, Champion with Manor Motorsport (despite competing in only 10 rounds of the series), seven wins, six pole positions, seven fastest laps. Finished on the podium in all 10 races contested; European Formula Renault Championship: competed in only three rounds, two wins, two pole positions, two fastest laps. Retired while leading in third race due to mechanical failure. Tested for Red Bull Sauber Petronas Formula One team at Mugello

2001 - Formula 1: Red Bull Sauber Petronas, 10th, 9 points

2002 - Formula 1: West McLaren Mercedes, 6th, 24 points (1 second, 3 thirds)

2003 - Formula 1: West McLaren Mercedes

As you can see no F-3000 (like Alonso), no F-1 test driver (like Alonso) they both started in 2001 but Kimi is still there without missing any single season (like Alonso, Renault test driver 2002) that's talent, at least I call it so.

[Wez 0]

You call a half decent driver to someone that had just a qualify session experience and no race experence, because Schumi was out in his first lap, do you remember that?

After that he was taken to Benneton, is that a half decent driver?

When Benetton signed him he was a half-decent driver!!! You cant deny that... he wasnt 'a great yet', he wasnt cr@p!

[Schumikonen 2]

And up until 2005 apparently that was the only time he was in a car not capable of challenging for championships.

you are saying the samething that i've been saying all this time that is because of his car, thank you.

[Wez 0]

Kimi Background

bla bla bla

Alonso's Background

2005 World Champion

2006 possible world champion

Also youngest ever race winner, pole sitter, fastest lap setter & world champion.

As you can see no F-3000 (like Alonso), no F-1 test driver (like Alonso) they both started in 2001 but Kimi is still there without missing any single season (like Alonso, Renault test driver 2002) that's talent, at least I call it so.

Renault obviosly felt Alonso was too young at 20 years of age for a first team seat.

BTW. Are you trying to say Kimi is better than Alonso because Kimi drove for Sauber in 2002 whereas Alonso was only the test driver for Renault.... If so, thats an absolute joke comparison!

[narain fan 0]

BTW. Are you trying to say Kimi is better than Alonso because Kimi drove for Sauber in 2002

err i didnt know Big Don's name was RON Sauber

[Wez 0]

err i didnt know Big Don's name was RON Sauber

Doh... But Its still a stupid comparison brough up by the original poster!

[schumi13 0]

It's only 1 year off Narain_fan you could of just pointed it out in a nice well-mannered way. Wez I think what he meant was that Kimi drove for Sauber in 2001 and then went to McLaren in 2002.

[Wez 0]

It's only 1 year off Narain_fan you could of just pointed it out in a nice well-mannered way. Wez I think what he meant was that Kimi drove for Sauber in 2001 and then went to McLaren in 2002.

Not too worry mate, Nf just seems to be infatuated with my posts.... Its a compliment really.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Kimi Background

1987 - First time in kart

1988 - Karting, some wins in Classes A, B and C

1989 - Karting, some wins in Classes A, B and C

1990 - Karting, some wins in Classes A, B and C

1991 - National karting, Class Mini

1992 - National karting, Class Raket Junior

1993 - National karting, Class Raket, Finnish Cup, 9th overall.

1994 - National karting, Class Raket, Finnisch Cup, 2nd overall.

1995 - Formula A Karting: first race, and first win, 23rd April.

1996 - Karting Grand Prix (European Series)World Championship races and Nordic Championship racesno wins in Finnish Championship, Class Formula A, finished 4th overall

1997 - Finnish Championship, Class Intercontinental A, ChampionNordic Championship, Class Intercontinental A, 4th overallKarting Grand Prix and World Championship races - invited to drive with Peter de Bruin Team

1998 - Lived in the NetherlandsFinnish Championship, class Formula A, ChampionNordic Championship, ChampionClass Formula Intercontinental A, European Karting Grand Prix, winner; Super A, 2nd overallMonaco Cup, class Super A, 3rd overallWorld Championship, Formula Super A, retired from 7th position

1999 - Finnish Championship, Class Formula A, 2nd overallWorld Championship, class Formula Super A, 10thFirst Formula Renault race, with Haywood Racing, 3rdFormula Renault Winter Series, with Manor Motorsport - winner, four wins from four races

2000 - British Renault 2000, Champion with Manor Motorsport (despite competing in only 10 rounds of the series), seven wins, six pole positions, seven fastest laps. Finished on the podium in all 10 races contested; European Formula Renault Championship: competed in only three rounds, two wins, two pole positions, two fastest laps. Retired while leading in third race due to mechanical failure. Tested for Red Bull Sauber Petronas Formula One team at Mugello

2001 - Formula 1: Red Bull Sauber Petronas, 10th, 9 points

2002 - Formula 1: West McLaren Mercedes, 6th, 24 points (1 second, 3 thirds)

2003 - Formula 1: West McLaren Mercedes

As you can see no F-3000 (like Alonso), no F-1 test driver (like Alonso) they both started in 2001 but Kimi is still there without missing any single season (like Alonso, Renault test driver 2002) that's talent, at least I call it so.

I'm a die-hard Kimi fan, but now I'm even more impressed...

[ecapdeville 0]

Kimi Background

1987 - First time in kart

1988 - Karting, some wins in Classes A, B and C

1989 - Karting, some wins in Classes A, B and C

1990 - Karting, some wins in Classes A, B and C

1991 - National karting, Class Mini

1992 - National karting, Class Raket Junior

1993 - National karting, Class Raket, Finnish Cup, 9th overall.

1994 - National karting, Class Raket, Finnisch Cup, 2nd overall.

1995 - Formula A Karting: first race, and first win, 23rd April.

1996 - Karting Grand Prix (European Series)World Championship races and Nordic Championship racesno wins in Finnish Championship, Class Formula A, finished 4th overall

1997 - Finnish Championship, Class Intercontinental A, ChampionNordic Championship, Class Intercontinental A, 4th overallKarting Grand Prix and World Championship races - invited to drive with Peter de Bruin Team

1998 - Lived in the NetherlandsFinnish Championship, class Formula A, ChampionNordic Championship, ChampionClass Formula Intercontinental A, European Karting Grand Prix, winner; Super A, 2nd overallMonaco Cup, class Super A, 3rd overallWorld Championship, Formula Super A, retired from 7th position

1999 - Finnish Championship, Class Formula A, 2nd overallWorld Championship, class Formula Super A, 10thFirst Formula Renault race, with Haywood Racing, 3rdFormula Renault Winter Series, with Manor Motorsport - winner, four wins from four races

2000 - British Renault 2000, Champion with Manor Motorsport (despite competing in only 10 rounds of the series), seven wins, six pole positions, seven fastest laps. Finished on the podium in all 10 races contested; European Formula Renault Championship: competed in only three rounds, two wins, two pole positions, two fastest laps. Retired while leading in third race due to mechanical failure. Tested for Red Bull Sauber Petronas Formula One team at Mugello

2001 - Formula 1: Red Bull Sauber Petronas, 10th, 9 points

2002 - Formula 1: West McLaren Mercedes, 6th, 24 points (1 second, 3 thirds)

2003 - Formula 1: West McLaren Mercedes

As you can see no F-3000 (like Alonso), no F-1 test driver (like Alonso) they both started in 2001 but Kimi is still there without missing any single season (like Alonso, Renault test driver 2002) that's talent, at least I call it so.

I look and look...and I cant find a F1 championship...oh wait...he hasnt any!

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I look and look...and I cant find a F1 championship...oh wait...he hasnt any!

Do you have a crystal ball, if so, look at the 2008 season...

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Alonso got alot of attention from other team's when driving a Minardi, no major achievements there but the top talent spotter in F1 got him under contract after it and achievments followed shortly after.

I'm pretty sure Alonso was already under contract to benetton/renault whilst he was at minardi

And up until 2005 apparently that was the only time he was in a car not capable of challenging for championships.

what about 1996? I'm no schumi fan but I dont think the 1994 benetton and 1997/98 ferrari's were really worthy of challenging for titles, which is why schuey is seen as so great by so many.

Alonso's Background

2005 World Champion

2006 possible world champion

Also youngest ever race winner, pole sitter, fastest lap setter & world champion.

Youngest race winner etc, who cares? proves nothing. A whole load of drivers could have won at an earlier age if they'd jumped straight into the 2003 renault like alonso was lucky enough to do. I'm not saying alonso got into renault by luck, what I mean is he's extremely fortunate that renault started getting competitive in 2003 when he moved up to the race driver position

[Player(1) 0]

I wouldnt say 4th in the construtor's standing's and 54 points behind the 3rd place McLaren's would indicate a competative race winning car.

[Schumikonen 2]

Alonso's Background

2005 World Champion

2006 possible world champion

Also youngest ever race winner, pole sitter, fastest lap setter & world champion.

Renault obviosly felt Alonso was too young at 20 years of age for a first team seat.

BTW. Are you trying to say Kimi is better than Alonso because Kimi drove for Sauber in 2002 whereas Alonso was only the test driver for Renault.... If so, thats an absolute joke comparison!

What I'm saying is that Kimi without the Alonso's experience and background in F-3000 never lost a driver seat in F-1 like Alonso did when he was test driver, I call that Talent from Kimi, the so good Alonso for whatever reason that you call age (sometimes this is good for him, and some other time is a handycap from your point of view) he was out of the drvier line up to test in Renault, so for whatever reason somebody in F1 say that he was not able to do a good with a race seat a least for that year and never happend to Kimi. You can see as you want, but that's what happend in the end that year, Flavio just thought that he was not up to the job in the race, I don't care about the reason, that's the truth about Alonso in 2002, if he was so good why he was just testing and not racing?

You don't have to answer me about this, I am just opening your eyes. truth can not be change, that will become a lie if we do so.

[Schumikonen 2]

Alonso's Background

2005 World Champion

2006 possible world champion

Also youngest ever race winner, pole sitter, fastest lap setter & world champion.

While you talk about Alonso's youth, I will tell you about a 37 year old man that is still winning race and that is giving a hard time to Alonso, who was almost dead a the end of the last race, while that old man was so fresh that could go back to race again, and there are somes here who say that he was toying Schu in the race, can you believe that

And I will tell you about another old man that is among the greatest of all time because he won all his five championships with an old age, I'm talking about Juan Manuel Fangio, some people think that is harder to win when you are getting old that when you a young man (can you many old man in F-1 or is everybody trying to give a chance to the youth?)

So what's your point with the age?

I wouldnt say 4th in the construtor's standing's and 54 points behind the 3rd place McLaren's would indicate a competative race winning car.

Are we talking about Alonso or about Renault.

If Alonso win is because of his talent.

If Alonso looses is beacuse his car was not good or because of the Michelin or whatever...

Who is the good one Alonso, Renault, or Michelin.

I can tell you About an man who took a non-winning team to a WDC (Benneton-Ford) and that same man took another non-wining team Ferrari (who spent 19 years trying to get the title) to win five consecutive WDC and WCC, I can tell about that man that he was good and is still good, he could make a difference without having the best car in hands.

I think you know who am I talking about, don't you?

[Blitzkrieg 0]

While you talk about Alonso's youth, I will tell you about a 37 year old man that is still winning race and that is giving a hard time to Alonso, who was almost dead a the end of the last race, while that old man was so fresh that could go back to race again, and there are somes here who say that he was toying Schu in the race, can you believe that

And I will tell you about another old man that is among the greatest of all time because he won all his five championships with an old age, I'm talking about Juan Manuel Fangio, some people think that is harder to win when you are getting old that when you a young man (can you many old man in F-1 or is everybody trying to give a chance to the youth?)

So what's your point with the age?

Im guessing, my friend, he just feels content by denying the truth, and the little support he is getting from fellow 'blind-supporters', he just feels even more better when supported by them. When Alonso starts racing for Mclaren next year, I really feel bad, I wonder what state he will be in.

[stopkidding 0]

This thread is getting absurd, you guys are knocking each other off only for the sake of doing so. Alonso and Kimi are true great talents in F1 today. In about 5 years will know who got the better of the other. All other comparisons are premature and absurd. The next 5 years would be closely fought between Alonso, Kimi and Massa with the likes of Rosberg, Piquet and Hamilton fighting each other in the lower ranks of F1.

As much as people like to discount Massa as a pizza delivery boy, he is seriously fast and in a Ferrari he will have a car to fight among the best.