Alonso Up To His Tricks Again

[Autumnpuma 0]

If Fernando delivers relative to his team mate (even if he is expected to against PDLR) it will become too much of a coincidence even for the most ardent haters. I only hope that he can be patient and keep his head down (like Mika and Michael) to reap the rewards when they come.

I only wish Kimi was going to be there to prove who is quickest and to show whether Kimi really is the car breaker you have deemed him.

I do hope I'm wrong about Kimi. He's quick and reminds me of the Jim Clark footage that is out there. I would rank him the fastest on the grid right now (just barely ahead of M$ and Massa). His title challenge in '05 was all down to his superior speed, but he needed something more to make his championship happen. A little patience and willingness to coax the car home in 2nd or 3rd would have made all the difference in the world, I think. Kimi has been thinking of the race win, and trusting that racking up enough of them will give him the title. As we've seen, that isn't the case.

Ah well, I love watching this season, but I really am looking more towards '07 than the remainder of '06....

[dribbler 6]

I do hope I'm wrong about Kimi. He's quick and reminds me of the Jim Clark footage that is out there. I would rank him the fastest on the grid right now (just barely ahead of M$ and Massa). His title challenge in '05 was all down to his superior speed, but he needed something more to make his championship happen. A little patience and willingness to coax the car home in 2nd or 3rd would have made all the difference in the world, I think. Kimi has been thinking of the race win, and trusting that racking up enough of them will give him the title. As we've seen, that isn't the case.

Ah well, I love watching this season, but I really am looking more towards '07 than the remainder of '06....

Thing is, chances to win races don't come along every fortnight. In '05 i'll grant you that Kimi pushed harder than he should in some cases, especially at Nurburgring. But surely he never pushed the car too hard if he was told not to? And obviously if he was leading he wasn't going to concede in order to preserve (i know you're not suggesting that, i'm just saying it's impossible to draw a result /reliability decision when dealing with the type of unexpected catstrophic failures that plagued Kimi).

Next year should be great but i can't think beyond next weekend at the moment! I think we're heading for the most exciting show down since '97 for sure and maybe even since '88 or '89.

[Schumikonen 2]

Not all of Kimi's failures have been his fault. My point was (and is) that he isn't a WDC because of a few bits of 'overdriving' in '05.

My comment in this thread was obviously 'over-the-top' and teasing.....

So a question to all those that hate Alonso.....if he does well in the McLaren, is it him doing well in a crap car or is the McLaren going to be miraculously fixed?

There goes a quote from Schu "Things can change quickly in Formula 1, remember where we were last season and at the begining of this" so Mclaren can change like Ferrari did and Alonso said "I am not worried about next year, I know that Mclaren will have the best car on grid" so like Alonso said if you see good result next year is due to Mclaren not Alonso.

I think this is the best answer to your question.

[cavallino 2]

Not all of Kimi's failures have been his fault. My point was (and is) that he isn't a WDC because of a few bits of 'overdriving' in '05.

Excluding Nurburgring, which I have no idea whether it was a team call or Kimi, irrelevant anyway, which particular failure do you attribute to Kimi's driving? Circumstantial evidence is all very well, but I haven't seen much else.

[Ctrl300 0]

Excluding Nurburgring, which I have no idea whether it was a team call or Kimi, irrelevant anyway, which particular failure do you attribute to Kimi's driving? Circumstantial evidence is all very well, but I haven't seen much else.

From slagging to defending, give me a break. If Alonso signs for Ferrari are you going to defend him as well?

Inconsistent drivel should not become anyones hallmark, unless that is the purpose of the excercise...

[pumpdoc 2]

From slagging to defending, give me a break. If Alonso signs for Ferrari are you going to defend him as well?

Inconsistent drivel should not become anyones hallmark, unless that is the purpose of the excercise...

I would give up my long reign as a tifosi and find another team to root for.

[Schumikonen 2]

From slagging to defending, give me a break. If Alonso signs for Ferrari are you going to defend him as well?

Inconsistent drivel should not become anyones hallmark, unless that is the purpose of the excercise...

There's a lot a talking about Alonso just because he was winning races and that he won the WDC (in a very difficult year for ferrari), and that is about to change, (if it hasn't yet) because I don't think that Alonso could win another race this year(I mean if both ferrari stay out of failure), and next year it's all up to who is going to be his team mate at Mclaren, because if he got Kimi as a TM he is gonna be even out of the podium most of the races, so in a very short time Alonso supporters will be another driver's fans, that's for sure.

[Jean Todt 4]

There's a lot a talking about Alonso just because he was winning races and that he won the WDC (in a very difficult year for ferrari), and that is about to change, (if it hasn't yet) because I don't think that Alonso could win another race this year(I mean if both ferrari stay out of failure), and next year it's all up to who is going to be his team mate at Mclaren, because if he got Kimi as a TM he is gonna be even out of the podium most of the races, so in a very short time Alonso supporters will be another driver's fans, that's for sure.

both kimi and alonso are really quick drivers(though i think kimi is much quicker), both do have different driving styles though, i dont really know what(setup) kimi really prefers, but all i know is that, u just need to provide him a car that is only as fast as his rivals, he would destroy them....the only mistake he has done this year is, crashing his car behind an STR, other than that i dont remember him making mistakes during a race. i wonder why renault or alonso fans keep accusing him just because he crashed in hungary!

i would really like to see these two(kr and fa) in one team. even though many speculate alonso would be trashed i do think there are tracks where alonso may be stronger. i dont think alonso would be out of the podium though!! regardless of who wins, there are chances of mclaren 1-2 finishes regularly!

[Autumnpuma 0]

I would give up my long reign as a tifosi and find another team to root for.

That's a bit strong....why do you dislike him so much? Certainly not because of the silly dances and fist-wavings? I think there have been worse drivers from a personal standpoint that have driven for Ferrari in your long years as a tifosi..?

[Player(1) 0]

There's a lot a talking about Alonso just because he was winning races and that he won the WDC (in a very difficult year for ferrari), and that is about to change, (if it hasn't yet) because I don't think that Alonso could win another race this year(I mean if both ferrari stay out of failure), and next year it's all up to who is going to be his team mate at Mclaren, because if he got Kimi as a TM he is gonna be even out of the podium most of the races, so in a very short time Alonso supporters will be another driver's fans, that's for sure.

You mean take away failures and driving errors and Alonso will never win a race for the rest of the year? in other words Ferrari definitly has the faster car, yea you'd be retarded not to see that.

Keep the driver's ratio's of error's and you'll see Alonso beating them with a slower car, just like he did to Kimi in 2005.

Just wish McLaren could field 3 driver's in 2007 Alonso, Kimi and MS. No hiding for the doubter's then

[pumpdoc 2]

That's a bit strong....why do you dislike him so much? Certainly not because of the silly dances and fist-wavings? I think there have been worse drivers from a personal standpoint that have driven for Ferrari in your long years as a tifosi..?

You are right, but I would root for another team as well. Sorry but the more I see of the uni-brow the more I just don't like him, regardless of talent...........

[cavallino 2]

From slagging to defending, give me a break. If Alonso signs for Ferrari are you going to defend him as well?

Inconsistent drivel should not become anyones hallmark, unless that is the purpose of the excercise...

I don't remember slagging Kimi much, and for the record I do think Alonso is the better driver of the two, right now. I am honest about my views and open to changing them, which you might mistake for inconsistency.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

[quote name='Autumnpuma' post='136955' date='Sep 2 2006, 05:52 AM']Not all of Kimi's failures have been his fault. My point was (and is) that he isn't a WDC because of a few bits of 'overdriving' in '05.

My comment in this thread was obviously 'over-the-top' and teasing.....

So a question to all those that hate Alonso.....if he does well in the McLaren, is it him doing well in a crap car or is the McLaren going to be miraculously fixed?[/quote]
I'd say unreliability cost kimi the title. Its got buggerall to do with alonso being great and beating kimi in a slower car, kimi had FOUR 10-place grid penalties, and retired from the lead in imola and other races i cant remember now. If Alonso does well in a bad mclaren then I think we'll be able to see that and he'll get the credit for it. The quality of the car will be seen by its reliability and how well his team-mate does

[Autumnpuma 0]

I'd say unreliability cost kimi the title. Its got buggerall to do with alonso being great and beating kimi in a slower car, kimi had FOUR 10-place grid penalties, and retired from the lead in imola and other races i cant remember now. If Alonso does well in a bad mclaren then I think we'll be able to see that and he'll get the credit for it. The quality of the car will be seen by its reliability and how well his team-mate does

I hear you. Just to clarify, I am very similar to Cav in that I will change my viewpoint based on new information. If Alonso does prove that it was just his McLaren, I would not support him as much.

As for Kimi, I would rank him the fastest man on the current grid. Fast doesn't mean champion, however. He needs to prove to me that he has more than just speed before I will ease up my criticism. He did throw away his '05 title chances with stupid driving errors (even with the grid penalties, which also could be linked to his hard-driving style).

All this doesn't matter, because, as the self-appointed Prophet of Hamilton, it's my duty to inform all who will listen that the Messiah of Speed is coming.....

[Yuppi 0]

Pat Symonds :

[Wez 0]

Can you tell if you really think that those 12 points are because Alonso is so good or because of the team?

The difference if because Ferrari and Brigestone were not at their best shape at the begining of the season,that's why Alonso is now saying that tyre will be the difference in WDC title, he is saying that is not because of him if he finally gets the title, so I don't know what you really mean with those 12 points.

You talking absolute cr@p mate...

Renault was the fastest in the first half of the season, Ferrari is by far the fastest now... Alonso Has been awesome this season, Just look at the last two races where he was sublime despite not having the quickest car! He out-raced/out-witted your boy last race alright!

There's a lot a talking about Alonso just because he was winning races and that he won the WDC (in a very difficult year for ferrari), and that is about to change, (if it hasn't yet) because I don't think that Alonso could win another race this year(I mean if both ferrari stay out of failure), and next year it's all up to who is going to be his team mate at Mclaren, because if he got Kimi as a TM he is gonna be even out of the podium most of the races, so in a very short time Alonso supporters will be another driver's fans, that's for sure.

Im now quite sure you are a commedian...

OR a clown...

OR BOTH!

[Player(1) 0]

I'd say unreliability cost kimi the title. Its got buggerall to do with alonso being great and beating kimi in a slower car, kimi had FOUR 10-place grid penalties, and retired from the lead in imola and other races i cant remember now. If Alonso does well in a bad mclaren then I think we'll be able to see that and he'll get the credit for it. The quality of the car will be seen by its reliability and how well his team-mate does

Those four grid penaltys just shows how much faster the McLaren was then anthing else out there.

Want to play the what if game? ok lets say what if Kimi had bullet proof reliability but then let's say what if Alonso had a car with as much pace as the McLaren aswell...

Well we saw that in China actually!

If you want to say he could have won it in a faster car with bullet proof reliability that's fine but I can't see anyone thinking it's more then a hollow and unchallenged victory. Maximising your strengths and minimizing your weaknesses like Alonso did is a much more impressive way to become a WDC.

If Kimi drove flawlessly all season he would be a WDC and that's a fact. All by it's self if he didnt flat spot his tire in Germany he would have finished 9 points behind Alonso instead of 21.

[Autumnpuma 0]

At the end of the day, it's your total points that win you a WDC, not fastest laps or race wins. Yell and scream about that all you want, but Alonso and Renault deserved the titles in '05 because of a winning combination of speed, reliability and alot of mature drives by Alonso.

[dribbler 6]

At the end of the day, it's your total points that win you a WDC, not fastest laps or race wins. Yell and scream about that all you want, but Alonso and Renault deserved the titles in '05 because of a winning combination of speed, reliability and alot of mature drives by Alonso.

Agreed, but you can't blame Kimi for not getting the job done. If he gets a reliable Ferrari, i think he'll take care of the rest.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Agreed, but you can't blame Kimi for not getting the job done. If he gets a reliable Ferrari, i think he'll take care of the rest.

Of course I can blame Kimi! In the absence of conclusive proof either way, I'm free to interpret the events of Kimi's '05 season any way that makes sense to me. At key points in the season, he abused his car too much. I'm not popular for holding that opinion, but there it is.

Perhaps the bullet-proof Ferrari can withstand Kimi's abuse; if I see even one DNF from him*, I'm going to have a long, hard laugh.

I'll also have that same laugh when Fernando strangely doesn't have many DNF's** at McLaren.

*considering Ferrari have an outstanding reliability percentage, even 1 DNF would prove my case for Kimi's abuse.

**considering McLaren have had alot of reliability problems, I would consider my case for Alonso being gentle on his equipment to be proven if we see a reduction of DNF's from his McLaren.

[Schumikonen 2]

You kept Michael behind you for fifteen laps

[Player(1) 0]

You kept Michael behind you for fifteen laps

[Ctrl300 0]

You kept Michael behind you for fifteen laps

[Wez 0]

Jesus Christ, your posts are just the worst. I have never seen such biased drivel in my life.

Just a lucky driver with no skill? Well, I guess some Schmuckonen from the hills of nowhere knows talent better than the entire paddock

To question Fernando's talent is the same as questioning whether there is a difference between night and day, black or white, warm and cold. It is a total pointless excercise as we all (with the exclusion of you) know that he is one of the greatest talents of all time.

Cheers... Maybe Google translater to English isn't doing the trick for this guy?

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Jesus Christ, your posts are just the worst. I have never seen such biased drivel in my life.

Just a lucky driver with no skill? Well, I guess some Schmuckonen from the hills of nowhere knows talent better than the entire paddock

To question Fernando's talent is the same as questioning whether there is a difference between night and day, black or white, warm and cold. It is a total pointless excercise as we all (with the exclusion of you) know that he is one of the greatest talents of all time.

The problem is he does'nt actually have skill compared to a driver like Kimi, Alonso is car reliant, contrary to what Autumnpa states (his views are biased, hence Kimi breaking engines theory) his car setup is mostly done by his team....

He is not in the same league as Kimi, and thats FINAL!!!!!!!