Istanbul Raceday...

[stopkidding 0]

I am putting down Massa for his first victory....

I fear something nasty is going to happen on turn one....

[Ctrl300 0]

I am putting down Massa for his first victory....

I fear something nasty is going to happen on turn one....

Although a Ferrari win seems to be on the cards, I, and probably 65% of all F1 fans hope Schumacher gets taken out in the first corner, preferrable by Massa, but Fisico or Heidfelt would do just fine

Seriously, the race will probably be great fun unless Massa is told to give Schu room at the first turn and then act as an moving wall until the first round of stops.

[stopkidding 0]

Although a Ferrari win seems to be on the cards, I, and probably 65% of all F1 fans hope Schumacher gets taken out in the first corner, preferrable by Massa, but Fisico or Heidfelt would do just fine

Seriously, the race will probably be great fun unless Massa is told to give Schu room at the first turn and then act as an moving wall until the first round of stops.

letting schumi through at the first corner would be risky and could back fire as Alonso is a fast starter. I think ferrari would be hoping to hold position in the first laps, and then schumi will attempt to get past massa who isn't likely to put up much of a challenge. if by the end of the first 5 laps, if schumi is in the lead, then he can run away with the race. the ferraris were bloody quick on saturday, Schumi even did a 1 min 25, in Q2, a whole second a lap faster than the rest....

[Ctrl300 0]

letting schumi through at the first corner would be risky and could back fire as Alonso is a fast starter. I think ferrari would be hoping to hold position in the first laps, and then schumi will attempt to get past massa who isn't likely to put up much of a challenge. if by the end of the first 5 laps, if schumi is in the lead, then he can run away with the race. the ferraris were bloody quick on saturday, Schumi even did a 1 min 25, in Q2, a whole second a lap faster than the rest....

I seriously don't remember last years race that well. I remember JPM tangling with Tiago and Kimi winning. Did anything happen in the first corner apart from Kimi creating a huge gap already?

I do remember Schu DNF. I sincerely hope to see that repeat

[Jem of the Shire 0]

i'm expecting schu 1st, massa 2nd, alonso 3rd. 4th will hopefully be Button, i'm hoping he's heavier than heidfeld and that fisi is going to make some kind of error!!

[Karta 0]

MS wont be first in first corner unless Alonso car has problem or collides with Massa or Fisico quite sure (only way to avoid would be dual blocking).

Ctrl300, do not pull numbers out of nowhere. I am pretty sure most watchers dont wish that, their neither MS or Alonso fans. Just that they dont make much sound at all.

[Ctrl300 0]

MS wont be first in first corner unless Alonso car has problem or collides with Massa or Fisico quite sure (only way to avoid would be dual blocking).

Ctrl300, do not pull numbers out of nowhere. I am pretty sure most watchers dont wish that, their neither MS or Alonso fans. Just that they dont make much sound at all.

The numbers are of course, as you pointed out, rubbish, but I wanted to exaggerate them just so my dislike of him where not to go un-noticed. Thats all

[sdoik 0]

Button to get the double!!!

[Kay 0]

It's Mark Webber's birthday today, so I hope he gets some good luck and a few points! 30 today!

[stopkidding 0]

I am putting down Massa for his first victory....

I fear something nasty is going to happen on turn one....

I guess I got it right! Something nasty happend on turn 1 and Massa won! Now all you Massa haters! Take that!

[Autumnpuma 0]

I guess I got it right! Something nasty happend on turn 1 and Massa won! Now all you Massa haters! Take that!

Good job!!

[Schumikonen 2]

Seriously, the race will probably be great fun unless Massa is told to give Schu room at the first turn and then act as an moving wall until the first round of stops.

Do you have somthind to say now? because I saw a different story today, I saw a team thinking about the race instead of the championship, Ferrari best choice it was to get Michael into pit first so they can win the race and gain some point back for the WDC. I know that Michael made a mistake when he got out the track, but he was the faster driver in that moment and was the fasater driver of whole weekend, Ferrari won the race but now they have a harder way to WDC.

letting schumi through at the first corner would be risky and could back fire as Alonso is a fast starter. I think ferrari would be hoping to hold position in the first laps, and then schumi will attempt to get past massa who isn't likely to put up much of a challenge. if by the end of the first 5 laps, if schumi is in the lead, then he can run away with the race. the ferraris were bloody quick on saturday, Schumi even did a 1 min 25, in Q2, a whole second a lap faster than the rest....

I didn't see this either.

[Autumnpuma 0]

I'm not so sure. I think Ferrari did the best for the team and championship under the circumstances. Here's why:

Under the team orders rule, I don't believe that Ferrari could have waved Massa aside and let M$ into the pits first. The best they could have done would have been to make Massa do a lap while M$ pitted when Alonso did. M$ would surely have gotten out before Alonso and the whole race would have ended differently. But Massa would have been lucky to get 4th under those circumstances. Look at Ferrari's point's-haul in that scenario as opposed to what they took home by stacking the pit-stops....by letting Massa in first, they gauranteed his victory, but they also gauranteed M$'s podium with only a two point sacrifice to Alonso in the title challenge.

I hope I explained that correctly...

[Schumikonen 2]

I'm not so sure. I think Ferrari did the best for the team and championship under the circumstances. Here's why:

Under the team orders rule, I don't believe that Ferrari could have waved Massa aside and let M$ into the pits first. The best they could have done would have been to make Massa do a lap while M$ pitted when Alonso did. M$ would surely have gotten out before Alonso and the whole race would have ended differently. But Massa would have been lucky to get 4th under those circumstances. Look at Ferrari's point's-haul in that scenario as opposed to what they took home by stacking the pit-stops....by letting Massa in first, they gauranteed his victory, but they also gauranteed M$'s podium with only a two point sacrifice to Alonso in the title challenge.

I hope I explained that correctly...

You did explained correctly, except that you didn,t put here that the difference doing what you said above about Massa doing another lap "And that is exactly what I thought they could have done" and finishing in fourth or fith place place would be a piont or two in the Constructors Champ but would be a gaining of two points in the Drivers Champs and that one is most important, even when some teams said that they care more about the WCC rather than WDC Williams is one of those.

To me was a big pleasure to see Massa emotions on the podiums and the press conference but there are some goals for the team and they all should work together to get there. Massa won the race but he was never a help today for Michael, they almost crash a the first corner, then he was the whole race in nobody's land, he was just thinking about him and his future today, I know that he had still a chance to win the WDC but only in the case that he won every race from now and Alonso and Schumi do not take any point and that is almost imposible, so I think that he did not worked for the team today, he did it for he, his country, his family, his girlfriend, whatever you want to think, but I think that this it was not the right time for that, some people are against team order but they are the ones who pay the drivers salary, so they have to obey them and wirk for them, is like in baseball when the game is tied you get a man in first base in the 9th inning, cero outs, the next man who get into the batting box could get the order to bunt, that is called sacrifice and is not unfair, so why it should be unfair in F1? I support team orders.

[Player(1) 0]

If you where to bet on it the most sensible outcome excluding a human factor it would have been MS, Massa and Alonso. Points gap being down to 6 then but instead its now up to 12, best Renault was hoping for was 2nd behind MS for Alonso which would have left the WDC gap at 8 points. Alonso came out with at best double the points gap he should have, that's a major victory for Renault i'd say and a bigger blow to MS then Hungary's result.

Monza's should be seeing the points gap down to 8 atleast, new spec engine for Alonso in Monza might throw a spanner in the works though.

[Jean Todt 4]

guess yesterdays race was a brilliant one! i couldnt watch the hungarian gp..so i really missed the action.

i guess we saw a lot of great racing between the midfield runners, superb racing by RK! i feel he continues to impress, he is going to keep his seat.

[Schumikonen 2]

Ferrari reject team error claims

Monday 28 August at 09:15 :

Jean Todt has played down suggestions that Ferrari put a dampener on Michael Schumacher's hopes of further cutting into the championship lead in Turkey.

The German driver in Istanbul made key driving errors both in qualifying and the race, but it was an apparent wrong call from the pit wall that saw him lose position to Renault's Alonso by having to queue in pit lane during the safety car.

But team boss Todt hinted that Ferrari learned its lesson about unpopular team orders after the furore in Austria a few years ago.

''I think there would be five times more people at this press conference if I had asked Felipe Massa to let Michael through,'' the Frenchman told reporters in the paddock.

There is also the fact that overtaking is not allowed during safety car periods, meaning that the only option for Ferrari would have been to totally ruin Massa's race by keeping him out for an extra lap.

It is almost undoubted, however, that had Massa and Schumacher been running consecutively at a later point, the young Brazilian would have been asked to move over.

But Todt insisted: ''You will never know. I have given my answer.''

And I add to this "A man got to do, what a man got to do" "If you don't fight like a man, you will cry like a woman"

Ferrari didn't fight like man because they were thinking about what the reporters and the people will say, I knock on wood, but they could be soon crying like a woman.

[dribbler 6]

Ferrari reject team error claims

"A man got to do, what a man got to do" "If you don't fight like a man, you will cry like a woman"

Ferrari didn't fight like man because they were thinking about what the reporters and the people will say, I knock on wood, but they could be soon crying like a woman.

That's unfair. Ferrari were damned if they did and damned if they didn't.

They have demonstrated that since the Austrias and Indy that they are sensitive to reaction. That's why they didn't bring Michael in first.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Ferrari wouldnt have needed to tell Massa to move over. As Brundle pointed out, ferrari would've told massa that schuey was 2nd, and then it would've been massa's 'decision' whether to move over or not. The fact that he slowed right down on the last lap would suggest that massa would've let schu through if he had got past alonso

[stopkidding 0]

Ferrari wouldnt have needed to tell Massa to move over. As Brundle pointed out, ferrari would've told massa that schuey was 2nd, and then it would've been massa's 'decision' whether to move over or not. The fact that he slowed right down on the last lap would suggest that massa would've let schu through if he had got past alonso

what bulls##t is that? The reason he was lapping 2 seconds a lap slower towards the end, was to save the engine knowing that he had the race in the bag. I believe it was the first GP for massa's engine.

what really infuriates me is that people have to talk crap on forums just to make a differentiated point and to bash ferrari no matter what they do, which i think is not cool....

[Player(1) 0]

It is strange Massa on the last lap went 1 second slower then Alonso on S2 only and then picked up the pace again for S3 (in my sig btw).

Alonso snookered Ferrari

[stopkidding 0]

It is strange Massa on the last lap went 1 second slower then Alonso on S2 only and then picked up the pace again for S3 (in my sig btw).

Alonso snookered Ferrari

I am sure it was because he took turn 8 at a leisurely pace to enjoy the moment, as Schumi found out many times during the race, it was very easy to lose a lot of time in S2 if you messed up turn 8 (which he did many times).

Any suggestion that Massa was going to let Schumi pass through in the closing laps with Alonso right behind him is absurd, I must let you conspiracy theorists enjoy your bashing moment. I give up....

[Autumnpuma 0]

I hear everybody's arguments, but I still think Ferrari's strategy netted them maximum points for the Constructors championship with very little loss to Michael in the Driver's championship.

[Player(1) 0]

I am sure it was because he took turn 8 at a leisurely pace to enjoy the moment, as Schumi found out many times during the race, it was very easy to lose a lot of time in S2 if you messed up turn 8 (which he did many times).

Any suggestion that Massa was going to let Schumi pass through in the closing laps with Alonso right behind him is absurd, I must let you conspiracy theorists enjoy your bashing moment. I give up....

Exactly what im saying, they couldnt take the risk because Alonso was there.

Snooker

snook

[narain fan 0]

I hear everybody's arguments, but I still think Ferrari's strategy netted them maximum points for the Constructors championship with very little loss to Michael in the Driver's championship.

i just watched the race again,and ms lost the race because of ferrari strategy,i know spilt milk and alll .... but still

when MS pits for his first stop he takes 20 laps* worth of fuel(so he had apply 8 laps of fuel feft) hence the 29 lap stint

with used tyres.could they have short filled him at the second stop (4 sec stop) .

so the stint is 18 laps instead of 29 and ms makes his second stop 4 laps before alonso the second time ,and crucially gets 4 laps with "New tyres"

maybe ,just maybe with the lighter loadhe would not have lost it at T8 ,i know ,it is speculation,

my 2 cents

*approximately