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Schumacher Legend Will Be Tainted By Mistakes

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So when did Senna win the championship in the 3rd best car?

Just to clear something...MS never won the title in the 3rd best car....Ferrari in 03 season was better car than Williams & Mclarens.

Ferrari: 8 wins ( 6 wins for MS 2 wins for RB)

Williams: 4 wins ( 2 wins for JP 2 wins RF)

Mclaren: 2 wins ( 1 win DC 1 win KR)

Jordan: 1 win ( Fisichella)

Renault: 1 win ( FA)

Only thing is that Ferrari lost the edge of 02 season! ;)

Schumi won in a pig of a car in '96 and the '97 wasn't much better.......also the '92-'93 Bennies...........

So did Senna in Mclaren Ford..... ;)

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His teammate wasn't getting the same car and Senna vetoed Derek Warwick as his teammate, in the end it was Stuart I think?

Johnny Dumfries in 86 I think.

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Well, he was pretty feeble. Even allowing for 7 mechanically related retirements, 3 points is not good. Especially when Ayrton won 2 races that season.

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Well, he was pretty feeble. Even allowing for 7 mechanically related retirements, 3 points is not good. Especially when Ayrton won 2 races that season.

I wouldnt know. Its hard to believe we are talking about a season of F1 that happened 20 years ago.

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Well, he was pretty feeble. Even allowing for 7 mechanically related retirements, 3 points is not good. Especially when Ayrton won 2 races that season.
my point is ,people cant compare the points with his teammate just for the sake of claiming that he is the greatest ,he chose *his teammate,right. what about the 2005 BAR then,does that make Button the greatest driver of all time :lol:

EDIT : * this

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Ykick, you're lucky we haven't gone further back! But when talking of champions it's only natural to dredge up some memories, even if nothing is directly comparable.

Ashwin, I think Ayrton vetoed certain drivers, but would he really insist on such a moribund pedaller as Johnny? Hard to believe.

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I think when talking about schumacher and challenging for titles in crap cars, you have to look at 1997 and I don't think anyone would come close to challenging for the title in the 97 ferrari except schumacher. And taking the 98 title to the wire in a car that was no match for the mclaren also shows his 'legend-ness'.

Cant really comment on senna

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.

Ashwin, I think Ayrton vetoed certain drivers, but would he really insist on such a moribund pedaller as Johnny? Hard to believe.

i am sorry for the typo, it should be

Senna chose "THIS " teammate ..."

i was refering to the particular incident and did not imply that he chose "all" his team mates .

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Ykick, you're lucky we haven't gone further back! But when talking of champions it's only natural to dredge up some memories, even if nothing is directly comparable.

Ashwin, I think Ayrton vetoed certain drivers, but would he really insist on such a moribund pedaller as Johnny? Hard to believe.

Even Patrese in his final year wasn't that bad was he, and he must have been 38? or 39 at that time?

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Michael's reputation will be tarnished by his mistakes and i don't give a ****. It shows he's human thank god.

The only old b#####ds moaning are the ones who couldn't get anywhere near his achievements.

Is your Dad perfect? No, mine neither but the good things outweigh the bad by about 100 to 1, so too with Michael.

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I agree he isn't the best driver just because he has 7 driver championships as most of them havn't been earnt properly. Ie knocking people off the track :nono1: and he's also know to cheating(well i think anyway)

I'm not saying he's a Sh#t driver because obviously he can win fair and square most times. but the FIA Bum him alot because 9/10 times he gets away with rule breaking.

Anyway i thinks he a excellent driver and maybe be classed in the legends section but near the bottom.

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I don't agree really with anyone that says his reputation wiill be tainted. He's sheer desire to win at all costs is great for a racing driver and he shares the same ethics as Senna. Senna made a few controversial incidents (most people only remember two of them) so his reputation wasn't tainted why should Michael's?

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I agree he isn't the best driver just because he has 7 driver championships as most of them havn't been earnt properly. Ie knocking people off the track :nono1: and he's also know to cheating(well i think anyway)

I'm not saying he's a Sh#t driver because obviously he can win fair and square most times. but the FIA Bum him alot because 9/10 times he gets away with rule breaking.

Anyway i thinks he a excellent driver and maybe be classed in the legends section but near the bottom.

I just dont get it. "Mistakes" You guys must be kidding me. Any driver in the F1 paddock, past, present, future would love to make these so called mistakes. Lets see 7 WDC's, Most wins, poles, laps led, I can go on forever. Overall he is the best ever, Why: because he has the numbers period. If you want to debate about best in certain era's thats fine. Also you cant look at past and present drivers feelings about MS and use their views as gospel just like we cant use ours. Why, Jealousy and 80 mil a year :) Who wouldnt be jealous at what he has done I would if i was a driver. I guess the debate will go on forever. Bottom line you can only go by numbers because any other way can be debated forever.

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I don't agree really with anyone that says his reputation wiill be tainted. He's sheer desire to win at all costs is great for a racing driver and he shares the same ethics as Senna. Senna made a few controversial incidents (most people only remember two of them) so his reputation wasn't tainted why should Michael's?

Because Senna died. Dont mean to appear sensitive but thats the way I see it. Senna is seen as a godlike figure largely cos he died on the track

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Because Senna died. Dont mean to appear sensitive but thats the way I see it. Senna is seen as a godlike figure largely cos he died on the track

Once again I totally agree with you.

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I say that all of those of who agree to this are just MS haters.

No matter what you guys say or think about him he's still the BEST, and if you guys are saying that he's the best at cheating. Then I'll say so what, he's still the best.

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50 years ago the grid was filled by middle aged overweight men who could spend the cash, it cannot be possibly compared to the depth in motor racing today.

Anyway comparing different eras is pointless, but to say Michael won't count among the greats because of what he did on track and then calling Senna the greatest ever is a bit rich. I never figured out why Senna perpetually has a halo around his name, because he died? :unsure:

Yes

If drivers like Moss, Stewart, etc....say otherwise and have much more knowledge than most of us here, then MS will not be remembered as the greatest F1 driver ever.

Maybe for his fans and tifosi only!

Like Moss said....to many mistakes in his carreer to be remembered as the greatest driver.

The only person who's judgement will count is the person who has more records then Michael, otherwise everything is plain jealousy. And nobody cares what the Brits say, they have never stopped crying/complaining.

Just to clear something...MS never won the title in the 3rd best car....Ferrari in 03 season was better car than Williams & Mclarens.

Ferrari: 8 wins ( 6 wins for MS 2 wins for RB)

Williams: 4 wins ( 2 wins for JP 2 wins RF)

Mclaren: 2 wins ( 1 win DC 1 win KR)

Jordan: 1 win ( Fisichella)

Renault: 1 win ( FA)

Only thing is that Ferrari lost the edge of 02 season! ;)

So did Senna in Mclaren Ford..... ;)

8 wins...because of his driving skills and not superior car

and you guys call it "cheating", sometimes you have to do whatever you can to win, thats how you succeed in life - and thats why he has so many records and none of your fav's have any ones even close. this guy fought like hell on track and only the blind people can comment about him cheating

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Hardly! Apart from 1990 which could arguably just be put down as revenge for the year before, name me one?

Did you ever see Senna race or are you just arguing for the fun of it?

So you are justifying Senna cheating? Senna could have killed Prost in that crash. I have mentioned that several times, that a car flipped in the same gravel trap two years later and died.

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So you are justifying Senna cheating? Senna could have killed Prost in that crash. I have mentioned that several times, that a car flipped in the same gravel trap two years later and died.

The car died???? :o

just tell me one thing AR5...did you follow F1 those years?

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I was only 2 years old I think at the time.

The driver had died, my bad. The driver's name was Ogawa.

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I was only 2 years old I think at the time.

The driver had died, my bad. The driver's name was Ogawa.

Why in gods name do all you young ones persist on talking about things in the past at a time you where merely a glimmer in your dad's eyes?

You talk down on Senna and Prost and yet you have no idea about either. Why not spare yourself for the embarrasment and leave it alone?

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