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Schumacher Legend Will Be Tainted By Mistakes

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Thats funny how you can't remember where or when you saw it.

Another thing you should find funny is that Prost is a very modest person and for many years refused to talk about Senna as he found it to be of bad taste. Prost is very, very diplomatic and has no reaon for going out in the media and causing a stir.

Todt begged Prost to join Ferrari to help Schu at the end of 97 but Prost refused. Do you find that funny as well?

I already said it was on Tv few years back.I don't know if they called Prost 4 years after he retired to "help" Schu as you say but i find that rather hard to believe.You are a Prost fan so you know already what he thinks of MS if you looked it up.You all seem to think that the drivers are like cowboys in the films waiting to shoot each other but actually at their top level there is respect and admiration among them that their fans don't share.

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I already said it was on Tv few years back.I don't know if they called Prost 4 years after he retired to "help" Schu as you say but i find that rather hard to believe.You are a Prost fan so you know already what he thinks of MS if you looked it up.You all seem to think that the drivers are like cowboys in the films waiting to shoot each other but actually at their top level there is respect and admiration among them that their fans don't share.

Prost on Schumacher (Bablefish translationfrom French fo it is at times uncomprehensible):

"Michael Schumacher has just charmed to him the record of the number of the victories in F1. Alain Prost could have been satisfied to pay homage to him. But, as usual, Alain goes much further: he analyzes the reasons for which Schumacher is assembled so high. I will not go until claiming to have jumped of joy when Michael Schumacher beat my record of victories in F1... It would be exaggerated. But I knew that this day would come. You are never owner of a record. You hold it for one period, then you pass the relay. It is the law of the sport. When I began in F1, in 1980, the 27 victories of Jackie Stewart seemed inaccessible. When I gained my 28e victory, in 1987, Jackie congratulated me and said to me: "You can go up to 40." Once again, I thought that it was impossible... And I am assembled up to 51 victories. Any holder of this record inevitably keeps a particular place in the history of F1: Ascari, Fangio, Clark, Stewart. When I look at these names, I think that it is a beautiful family, and that I am there in good company. Then, why would I be disappointed? This record, I held it during fourteen years. I thought that it would not hold so a long time. When I withdrew myself, at the end of 1993, Ayrton Senna had already gained 41 victories. It was 34 years old, joined the Williams stable which reigned on F1. In my head, I had quietly prepared to transmit the torch to him. But Ayrton was killed in Imola. Consequently, this history of record left to me the spirit. Until Schumacher, these two last years, starts to align successes at Ferrari... One of the characteristics of modern F1, it is the low number of abandonments for mechanical breakage. Firstly, data processing allows calculations of resistance of the increasingly precise parts. Secondly, electronics is a parapet which prevents the pilot from making a surr

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I found that one too but its not the one i was referring.Anyhow Alain shows he has class!!

Indeed.

He has always been modest and diplomatic, and in my opinion the driver best ever both with regards to skill, ethics and morals.

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Indeed.

He has always been modest and diplomatic, and in my opinion the driver best ever both with regards to skill, ethics and morals.

Exactly.Its pointless to try to convince you he isn't the best ever and that goes for the MS fans.The point is that AP,MH,DH,Niki Lauda and many top drivers/F1 people don't DOUBT him as a driver and that is the usual mistake of the MS haters.

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Schumacher used an illegal car in 95

He has never had a competent teammate (with the exception of Piquet whom beat him) so one have never been to evaluate his skill or his equipment to another decent driver or car.

Finally Prost won the WDC in 1986 with far inferior machinery which is something Schmuker never has.

the 95 benetton was illegal?? I never knew that, please explain.

You wouldnt call Barrichello competent?

Prost had a big help from Mansell's tyre exploding!! And whilst he may not have won a title in the 2nd best car, I think the fact that he came so close to it in 97 and 98 says a lot more

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Exactly.Its pointless to try to convince you he isn't the best ever and that goes for the MS fans.The point is that AP,MH,DH,Niki Lauda and many top drivers/F1 people don't DOUBT him as a driver and that is the usual mistake of the MS haters.

You are correct. The hatred makes many biased and unable to make an evaluation. But, many, like me, find his ethics (win at all cost), the lack of competitive teammates, often surperior machinery, and the consistent #1 driver status within the team flaws that makes us question if he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as other greats.

I know that it is a pointless excersise to try and convince his fans otherwise, but some are actually able to at least acknowledge the fact that some circumstanses in his career are questionable.

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Im not going to argue about this with someone who couldn't even spell f1 at the time it happened!

Age does not necessarily mean intelligence.

But for the record (And the youngsters trying to argue about it wouldnt understand it).. Prost & Senna had a unique relationship.... 1989 & 1990... They didnt crash to cheat they did it out of pure competitiveness and revenge!

So What. You are justifying intentionally taking other drivers out. You are so willing to let it pass for Senna and Prost but not for Schumacher. I sense bias.

But for the record (And the youngsters trying to argue about it wouldnt understand it).. Prost & Senna had a unique relationship.... 1989 & 1990... They didnt crash to cheat they did it out of pure competitiveness and revenge!

I can have a unique relationship with your mom, big deal.

A certain German on the other hand is a cheat, and could very well have killed many drivers with him dirty antics over the years!

I had no idea Frentzen was a cheat.

Dont fool yourself... Senna was a godlike figure well before he died!!!

So was Steve Irwin. Big deal.

A Gerhard Berger fan of all people should know what I mean what I say Senna was a godlike figure before he died. Go watch the highlights of 1990, 1991, 1992...

I'll watch highlights.

San Marino 1990

Jerez 1990

Japan 1990 (remarkably short)

Adelaide 1990

Canada 1991

Mexico 1992

Brazil 1992

Canada 1992

France 1992

Silverstone 1992

Suzuka 1992

Adelaide 1992

I'm done watching highlights.

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You are correct. The hatred makes many biased and unable to make an evaluation. But, many, like me, find his ethics (win at all cost), the lack of competitive teammates, often surperior machinery, and the consistent #1 driver status within the team flaws that makes us question if he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as other greats.

I know that it is a pointless excersise to try and convince his fans otherwise, but some are actually able to at least acknowledge the fact that some circumstanses in his career are questionable.

Apart from EI and RB who i think were among the best at the time, i'm really curious to see the battle between FM and KR.Felippe seems super-fast and probably next year will be very exciting.I expect him to prove that MS has had fast teammates!

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the 95 benetton was illegal?? I never knew that, please explain.

You wouldnt call Barrichello competent?

Prost had a big help from Mansell's tyre exploding!! And whilst he may not have won a title in the 2nd best car, I think the fact that he came so close to it in 97 and 98 says a lot more

Many suggested that Benetton used illegal electronic systems in the 94 car (not the 95, sorry).

And yes, Ruebens is far from being as competetnt as Lauda, Mansell, Senna, Hill, etc.

Apart from EI and RB who i think were among the best at the time, i'm really curious to see the battle between FM and KR.Felippe seems super-fast and probably next year will be very exciting.I expect him to prove that MS has had fast teammates!

Kimi will walk all over Massa. No need to talk about getting used to the car etc. The car will be tailored to he's liking and Massa is instructed to play second fiddle.

Age does not necessarily mean intelligence.

I can have a unique relationship with your mom, big deal.

But in your case age and intelligence have a very strong correlation.

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Kimi will walk all over Massa. No need to talk about getting used to the car etc. The car will be tailored to he's liking and Massa is instructed to play second fiddle.

We 'll have to wait a lot to find that out!Remember you said that though!FM is better than you think!

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Age does not necessarily mean intelligence.

bla bla bla

I honestly think you need to go make some friends in the real world..

And that "Hot" 18 bird you wank over on chat programs is actual your hillbilly uncle!

But in your case age and intelligence have a very strong correlation.

Yes Clearly!

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:lol: A lot has been happening on this thread hasnt it. :lol:

Yup..............

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So what was this thread about agian :P

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So what was this thread about agian :P

Don't know, who cares, it was more entertaining watching Wez vs Cavallino slanging match!! Seconds out round 2

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:lol: A lot has been happening on this thread hasnt it. :lol:

Yeah! the fact is in this world the end justifies the means. It's been like that for at least a few thousand years and there is no evidence whatsoever that it will change in a near future. B)

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Many suggested that Benetton used illegal electronic systems in the 94 car (not the 95, sorry).

So whats your point, getting the advantage by any means is what it's about. Cheating is part of the game,its up to the FIA to find it . It seems to me that you want to take away MS WDC in 1994?. If you do and many of you feel that way then you must take away FA WDC last year. Why because he used a illegal system on his car and it took the FIA over a year to show it was illegal. In my opinion all teams are trying their hardest to win at any means and I'm fine with it. That's what makes the sport evolve. They attempt to develop components around the rules.

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Former drivers have reservations about the German

MICHAEL SCHUMACHER may be the most successful driver in Formula One history, but according to British former racers he cannot be regarded as the greatest the sport has known. Sir Stirling Moss, who won 16 grands prix, is in no doubt that it is wrong to class Schumacher alongside legends such as Juan Manuel Fangio, Ayrton Senna and Jim Clark. Moss dismisses claims of such status for the German, seven times the world champion, as

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But for the record (And the youngsters trying to argue about it wouldnt understand it).. Prost & Senna had a unique relationship.... 1989 & 1990... They didnt crash to cheat they did it out of pure competitiveness and revenge!

It's funny, when Michael does something "competitive", he is called a 'cheat', but when Senna did something like that, he is called 'competitive'. I have to agree with cavillino on this one :thbup: .

Schumacher did cheat his way to WDC in 94, used an illegal car in 95, tried to crash his way to a WDC in 97, parked his car to hinder his competition in 05 etc.

He has never had a competent teammate (with the exception of Piquet whom beat him) so one have never been to evaluate his skill or his equipment to another decent driver or car.

His teammates have always played second fiddle being there exclusively to help him to victory.

The drivers you mention (Prost, Senna, Mansell) never enjoyed such luxuries.

Prost had 4 engineers, compared to Senna's 10, and always an older engine than Senna due to the favouratism at Honda. He beat Senna, Rosberg, Lauda, Mansell and Hill in the same equipment while Schumacher had a clause in his contract not to face a top driver. I mean, get a grip. When evaluating the best ever one cannot only look at statistics unless they have raced against each other preferrably in the same machinery.

Finally Prost won the WDC in 1986 with far inferior machinery which is something Schmuker never has.

This "old man" can't stand the Schumacher domination huh! :naughty::lol:

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This "old man" can't stand the Schumacher domination huh! :naughty::lol:

No, the OLD MAN is Scummi and he is leaving...

goodbye! :rolleyes:

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There is some confusion here. The original post quoted Moss, Stewart and Brundle as saying Michael Schumacher has fantastic talent as a driver, but he reputation as a sportsman will rank him below Clark, Fangio, and Moss in the overall ranking of 'greatest drivers'.

The mention of Senna was not in regards to sportsman-like behaviour. It was in reference to driving ability. Some posters are confusing the two issues. Senna was not the sportsman that Clark, Fangio, Stewart and Moss were.

Argue all you want about how many records Michael Schumacher has broken, but he will always rank below men that have demonstrated better sportsman-like attitudes.

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Thats funny how you can't remember where or when you saw it.

Another thing you should find funny is that Prost is a very modest person and for many years refused to talk about Senna as he found it to be of bad taste. Prost is very, very diplomatic and has no reaon for going out in the media and causing a stir.

Todt begged Prost to join Ferrari to help Schu at the end of 97 but Prost refused. Do you find that funny as well?

What you and me can remenber about that time is that Prost who was my favorite driver, was a ferrari driver and he did nothing there, and MS probe his value in the team that Prost couldn't get in front. have you ever hear that Prost was fired because of his lack of achivement in the team? Well I did, you can say ahtever about Schu, but you can not change the history and you can read and watch who did a better jocb a Ferrari Prost or Schumi, and you can read or see who did a better job in F1 too. I cna tell you the answer Michael Schumacher and that's something that you and nobody can change.

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have you ever hear that Prost was fired because of his lack of achivement in the team?

So you should remember that Prost said that driving a ferrari was like driving a truck...

You can say ahtever about Schu, but you can not change the history and you can read and watch who did a better jocb a Ferrari Prost or Schumi, and you can read or see who did a better job in F1 too.

Ferrari was a mediocre team for a lot of years...ask Mansell

I cna tell you the answer Michael Schumacher and that's something that you and nobody can change.

Yeah, and incredible lucky driver, he had the best ferrari team for a long consecutive time...

But...you reddish people only remember what you want to remember...

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