Clicky

Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Ctrl300

Schumacher Legend Will Be Tainted By Mistakes

Recommended Posts

There is wisdom here after all. The prime factor in greatness is ethical behaviour. Stirling will never be a world champion, but he will always be greater than Michael. Ethical behaviour is the answer. What good is it to hold all the records yet be a villian?

It depends on your definition of "greatness". To assert that the definition you put forward - wherein ethical behaviour is the prime determinant - is the universal one, is deceitful and as my previous posting on the subject implies, it is also illogical. Formula 1 is not a contest of ethics :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Senna could have been a dirty driver like Schumacher. I dont know because i was only 6 when Senna died. I am however well aware of most of Schumacher's questionable actions and im certain he is a bad sportsman.

For those not familiar with Senna's personality should know that Senna was most like JV off the track. Honestly speak this mind out, standing by what he believed in. Not particularly loved by everyone on the paddock, but widely respected for his beliefs and conviction..

On the track, few if anyone have matched Senna's intensity or determination for winning on the track. He wrote the book on competetive drive and intensity. Even Schumacher pales in comparison....

None were like him before, everyone would want to be him in the future....

Cheating or no cheating, Both Schumacher and Senna will be remembered for the accomplishments on the track. They are legends of their time in the sport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I will never forget his celebration on Imola 94

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ccbOpItCg

Just shows the man in his essence.

:( ouch video brings back some sad memories, the blood and head covered with the cloth. Nobody knows what the true emotions of schumacher were at the time. The video could be misleading.... Senna was not declared dead for until a few hours later. Right after the race ended, most people knew that senna was seriously injured. few people realized he was dead. He was actually placed on a heart lung machine for many hours before he was officially declared dead.

I am not the one to judge schumacher's reaction, for i dont know.

I also remember him crying uncontrollably after he equaled senna's 41 wins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My friend, I don't think that video could be misleading. Here in the states, we have Steve Matchett pulling commentator duties for us during races. Now a year or so ago SpeedTV presented a program called 'Decade' that showed past F1 races, with the current commentary crew calling the past race. When they got to showing Imola, Matchett related that everybody knew that Senna was almost certainly fatally injured. Michael certainly knew before stepping onto the podium.

Defend the man's records and statistics, but please don't defend his character, you'll only look silly... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My friend, I don't think that video could be misleading. Here in the states, we have Steve Matchett pulling commentator duties for us during races. Now a year or so ago SpeedTV presented a program called 'Decade' that showed past F1 races, with the current commentary crew calling the past race. When they got to showing Imola, Matchett related that everybody knew that Senna was almost certainly fatally injured. Michael certainly knew before stepping onto the podium.

Defend the man's records and statistics, but please don't defend his character, you'll only look silly... ;)

This is character asasination at it's best I have the tape from the original broadcasts (both the Canadian and the US) and this wholy out of context, even the comentators said nothing during the race about Sennas impending death declaration and after the podium ceremony during the press conferance there was remarkable change in everyones demenor :nono1:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My friend, I don't think that video could be misleading. Here in the states, we have Steve Matchett pulling commentator duties for us during races. Now a year or so ago SpeedTV presented a program called 'Decade' that showed past F1 races, with the current commentary crew calling the past race. When they got to showing Imola, Matchett related that everybody knew that Senna was almost certainly fatally injured. Michael certainly knew before stepping onto the podium.

Defend the man's records and statistics, but please don't defend his character, you'll only look silly... ;)

I got a question for anyone?

Who did worst Schimi for being happy of winning his fourth race in a row, or those people on the race track who did not tell inmediately that Senna was dead just because they did not wanted to stop the race?

There was a lot of poeple who knew that Senna was dead in the scene, and they took a coupleof hours to tell it to the world, I saw that race and I didn't know that he was dead until I hear the news on the radio.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You label him a 'cheat' and then make a video to de-moralize him, even more. I mean I know that we should all respect other people's opinions and character. But this is just over the limit. How worse can it get? I've watched that race too, both in English and in German. And even after the race, nobody knew that he had died, all they said was "he had a very fatal crash". It's hard to imagine that people can even think that evil. Before pointing out someone's negative side, look at yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I got a question for anyone?

Who did worst Schimi for being happy of winning his fourth race in a row, or those people on the race track who did not tell inmediately that Senna was dead just because they did not wanted to stop the race?

There was a lot of poeple who knew that Senna was dead in the scene, and they took a coupleof hours to tell it to the world, I saw that race and I didn't know that he was dead until I hear the news on the radio.

Let me ask you this: If your neighbour steals is it then proper bahaviour for you to do the same?

Schumacher knew very well what had occured when he stood on the top of that podium and him feeling happy can not be justified by the fact that the race went on. If he did not know about Senna's death (which I refuse to believe) the death of Roland the day before should have been reason enough not to celebrate.

Schumacher is a piece of shiit. End of story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I got a question for anyone?

Who did worst Schimi for being happy of winning his fourth race in a row, or those people on the race track who did not tell inmediately that Senna was dead just because they did not wanted to stop the race?

There was a lot of poeple who knew that Senna was dead in the scene, and they took a coupleof hours to tell it to the world, I saw that race and I didn't know that he was dead until I hear the news on the radio.

Indeed :eusa_think:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Indeed :eusa_think:

Indeed what?

It is becoming obvious that all you 'tifosis' strugle from a selective memory complex.

Roland Ratzenberger died on track the day before, Senna dies on track that Sunday, and Ruebens got hospitalised after a horrific crash, yet you claim Schumacher knew nothing of this and was hence in his right to celebrate?

This discussion has given me further reason to stand by my observation that 90% of all Schumacher fans are severely brain-damaged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is character asasination at it's best I have the tape from the original broadcasts (both the Canadian and the US) and this wholy out of context, even the comentators said nothing during the race about Sennas impending death declaration and after the podium ceremony during the press conferance there was remarkable change in everyones demenor :nono1:

Bruce, I specifically said the SpeedTV broadcast 'Decade'. Matchett (who as you know was a member of Benneton at the time) was remembering that day and he remembers knowing, just after Senna was being helicoptered out, that he was in a near fatal condition. This was no doubt relayed to everyone, including Michael, knew the situation was severe (to be fair I cannot remember Matchett saying specifically that Michael was told). Look at the videos you have and tell me that Hakkinen and Larini weren't somber (because they knew). Also note the joyous look and smile on M$'s face. I know M$ drives for Ferrari, but you cannot possibly argue he is a good guy.... -_-

The commentators saying nothing about Senna's condition during the original broadcast really doesn't mean anything. I would expect them to keep quiet.

Lastly, I never intend to assasinate anybody's character and it should be obvious I'm not a 'Schumi-hater'. If I misremember the course of events 12 years ago, then I apologize for it. My memory of Matchett's comments a few years ago is a bit more dependable.

EDIT: Tell you what, I think I still have the tape of the 'Decade' broadcast. I'll go through it tonight and if I'm wrong, I'll be back here to seek an apology for my comments ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Indeed what?

It is becoming obvious that all you 'tifosis' strugle from a selective memory complex.

Roland Ratzenberger died on track the day before, Senna dies on track that Sunday, and Ruebens got hospitalised after a horrific crash, yet you claim Schumacher knew nothing of this and was hence in his right to celebrate?

This discussion has given me further reason to stand by my observation that 90% of all Schumacher fans are severely brain-damaged.

With all due respect, nobody said he had the right to celebrate. It is just impossible to think he is a sadist, really. It's hard to imagine he would actually do something like that. So for the most part, he must've never known about the climax of the incidents. However, it's not like he actually 'celebrated'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Indeed what?

It is becoming obvious that all you 'tifosis' strugle from a selective memory complex.

Roland Ratzenberger died on track the day before, Senna dies on track that Sunday, and Ruebens got hospitalised after a horrific crash, yet you claim Schumacher knew nothing of this and was hence in his right to celebrate?

This discussion has given me further reason to stand by my observation that 90% of all Schumacher fans are severely brain-damaged.

........and what do you say about Mika clapping, huh? Look at the press conferance, nobodys happy there, it's a bulls##t clip taken out of context.............

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With all due respect, nobody said he had the right to celebrate. It is just impossible to think he is a sadist, really. It's hard to imagine he would actually do something like that. So for the most part, he must've never known about the climax of the incidents. However, it's not like he actually 'celebrated'.

He must have known of at least two of the incidents and he celebrated a hell of a lot more than he did at A1-Ring 2002 and Indy 2005 where he did not as much as smile...yet he found it decent to smile and wave his hands at Imola after one of the most tragic weekends in F1 history. I think that says it all really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said, I'll look at my tape and get back to this thread. I do remember a somber attitude in the press conference.

But remember, even if I am completely wrong, all tifosi should realize that you don't need to back every Ferrari driver every moment, under every circumstance. A Ferrari driver is not Ferrari. M$ has made many mistakes in the past....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
........and what do you say about Mika clapping, huh? Look at the press conferance, nobodys happy there, it's a bulls##t clip taken out of context.............

What? Did you see Larini smile or clap?

Besides we are not talking about Mika and if he celebrated for his third would that justify Schumacher doing the same?

As I said, I'll look at my tape and get back to this thread. I do remember a somber attitude in the press conference.

But remember, even if I am completely wrong, all tifosi should realize that you don't need to back every Ferrari driver every moment, under every circumstance. A Ferrari driver is not Ferrari. M$ has made many mistakes in the past....

Indeed!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He must have known of at least two of the incidents and he celebrated a hell of a lot more than he did at A1-Ring 2002 and Indy 2005 where he did not as much as smile...yet he found it decent to smile and wave his hands at Imola after one of the most tragic weekends in F1 history. I think that says it all really.

From what memories I have in mind, I don't think he knew about Aryton's tragedy. But all he did was wave and smile, I don't think that's called 'celebrating'. Maybe that's why there is such a short clip, the video is directly intended to destroy his reputation and character. If we have more footage, then maybe we can judge. I think it's a bit unfair.

A couple races later in Monaco, when everybody knew about the tragedy, you can see his expression there. If he truly was a sadist, he wouldnt have acted like that, no? Infact, not only Monaco, but the next race itself, you can see the change of behaivour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What? Did you see Larini smile or clap?

Besides we are not talking about Mika and if he celebrated for his third would that justify Schumacher doing the same?

Indeed!

Oh I see Mika can do no wrong eh

.......and Mike you know from watching 'Decade' that they had to edit to fit a 40 minute window, watch the real time broadcast from begining to end not some damn cleverly edited clip with no sound..........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As I said, I'll look at my tape and get back to this thread. I do remember a somber attitude in the press conference.

But remember, even if I am completely wrong, all tifosi should realize that you don't need to back every Ferrari driver every moment, under every circumstance. A Ferrari driver is not Ferrari. M$ has made many mistakes in the past....

So have alot of people made mistakes in their past. I think because of his reputation and statistics, some of the die-hard Michael-haters have really taken it to the next limit. If you want to see bad of someone, then you will only see bad, if you to be open-minded about someone, then you will know his true colours. I respect everyones opinions on these forums, but just to think he would 'enjoy' the tragedies is going a bit too far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From what memories I have in mind, I don't think he knew about Aryton's tragedy. But all he did was wave and smile, I don't think that's called 'celebrating'. Maybe that's why there is such a short clip, the video is directly intended to destroy his reputation and character. If we have more footage, then maybe we can judge. I think it's a bit unfair.

A couple races later in Monaco, when everybody knew about the tragedy, you can see his expression there. If he truly was a sadist, he wouldnt have acted like that, no? Infact, not only Monaco, but the next race itself, you can see the change of behaivour.

Schumacher said in the press conference that he couldn't feel satisfied, couldn't feel happy for his win after hearing of Senna's death. WTF, what about Roland? and if he was that sad he would not smile at all. He says one thing and turns around and does the complete opposite. The hallmark of Schumacher, do as I say and not as I do.

Oh I see Mika can do no wrong eh

.......and Mike you know from watching 'Decade' that they had to edit to fit a 40 minute window, watch the real time broadcast from begining to end not some damn cleverly edited clip with no sound..........

I did not say that, but you of all people being a grandfather and all should know that one persons actions does not justify you doing the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Schumacher said in the press conference that he couldn't feel satisfied, couldn't feel happy for his win after hearing of Senna's death. WTF, what about Roland? and if he was that sad he would not smile at all. He says one thing and turns around and does the complete opposite. The hallmark of Schumacher, do as I say and not as I do.

No, he did not say that. Do we have a video of the press conference?

And I'm not sure if he even knew about Roland. I still don't think he is a sadist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, he did not say that. Do we have a video of the press conference?

And I'm not sure if he even knew about Roland. I still don't think he is a sadist.

well the roland incident was on the previous day

this video recaps the whole weekend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRM5LUT_xbY

this is a video of senna's reaction to ratzenburger's crash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fVoN6sJDhw&NR

who would have known the next day the world would be looking at a similar video of medics trying to revive him....

I clearly remember that day as it is the only day I will ever remember. Every little detail of that day is still fresh in my memory. the news of his death wasn't made public for many hours after the race. it was not known to the drivers at the time of the race restart and after the race the only thing announced was that Senna was on a life support machine (as he was kept for many hours). He was declared brain death much later and the machine was switched off. He had to be resuscitated by a track side tracheotomy.

Now i don;t know what schumacher and others knew at the time of the podium or what that smile was for or what it indicated. But it would certainly be cruel to brand schumacher as heartless and insensitive to senna's death. that is plain wrong. don't confuse racasse at monaco for imola 1994. i don;t think there was a single soul in the paddock who didn't admire and respect senna and to say Schumacher was celebrating knowing that Senna is dead is plain wrong. you don't know you what he knew or what the context of that shot is.

The forum is a place to discuss and talk and share our passions for F1. not a place to win arguments and make inane comments....

keep it truthful....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Schumacher said in the press conference that he couldn't feel satisfied, couldn't feel happy for his win after hearing of Senna's death. WTF, what about Roland? and if he was that sad he would not smile at all. He says one thing and turns around and does the complete opposite.

He clearly said "after this weekend". please watch the video.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh I see Mika can do no wrong eh

.......and Mike you know from watching 'Decade' that they had to edit to fit a 40 minute window, watch the real time broadcast from begining to end not some damn cleverly edited clip with no sound..........

Yeah, I know. I was referring to what Matchett said during his post-race statement on what he remembered from that day--that wouldn't be affected by any editing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...