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Schumacher Legend Will Be Tainted By Mistakes

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Yeah, I know. I was referring to what Matchett said during his post-race statement on what he remembered from that day--that wouldn't be affected by any editing.

here is the definitive proof, from the Speed's F1 Decade show the Puma is talking about. I hope this will bring the matter to rest....

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I think that to say Schumi was happy and didn't care that senna and roland had died is a stupid load of bollocks, just cos he smiled and waved. Schu may have controversial moments on the track but he's not some kind of heartless devil. Schu was on good terms with senna and had massive respect for him. He burst into tears in 2000 when reminded of senna, and I think recently all this anti-schumacher crap is being taken too far! People are going back over 12 years to find little snippets of schu that might make him look bad, now that he's retiring and everyone wants to prove that he's NOT a legend

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Let me ask you this: If your neighbour steals is it then proper bahaviour for you to do the same?

Schumacher knew very well what had occured when he stood on the top of that podium and him feeling happy can not be justified by the fact that the race went on. If he did not know about Senna's death (which I refuse to believe) the death of Roland the day before should have been reason enough not to celebrate.

Schumacher is a piece of shiit. End of story.

Piece of Sh#t? You seem to fit the bill pal B)

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Its pointless to argue about MS's emotions but if look closer, its obvious he simply responds to someone in the croud, probably team members.He points his head at someone and salutes him back.Senna was not announced dead then, but a few hours later.MS has said many times he admired Senna and was a big fan of his and if you remember the press conf where he started crying when he was told that he just beat AS most wins record, then that is a much better indication of what MS thinks of Senna.And i do think that this short clip is a dirty trick to fool those who are easily impressed...

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Indeed what?

It is becoming obvious that all you 'tifosis' strugle from a selective memory complex.

Roland Ratzenberger died on track the day before, Senna dies on track that Sunday, and Ruebens got hospitalised after a horrific crash, yet you claim Schumacher knew nothing of this and was hence in his right to celebrate?

This discussion has given me further reason to stand by my observation that 90% of all Schumacher fans are severely brain-damaged.

hypocrisy:

Do you know the meaning of this word, maybe you feel great when somebody treat you with hypocrisy beacuse you are asking for it from Schu, you want him to fake an emotion that he was not really having at that time, and by the way I remember that Jean Alesi used this word to refer about Prost for going to Senna's funeral when they were enemies, and I see that you his fan, maybe that's the kind of poeple that you like, well I prefer a sincere person no matter the situation, a bunch of you are calling a liar to MS and now you are talking all this about him because he was not behaving like lier, what is what you really wanted from him, I can see that you are just looking fro any possible reason to critize Michael and that way you are going to find a lot of reasons, believe me that you are going to find them even were they don't exist and I can do that with any driver but I won't do it, That's not me.

Its pointless to argue about MS's emotions but if look closer, its obvious he simply responds to someone in the croud, probably team members.He points his head at someone and salutes him back.Senna was not announced dead then, but a few hours later.MS has said many times he admired Senna and was a big fan of his and if you remember the press conf where he started crying when he was told that he just beat AS most wins record, then that is a much better indication of what MS thinks of Senna.And i do think that this short clip is a dirty trick to fool those who are easily impressed...

:clap3::clap3::clap3::clap3::clap3::clap3::clap3:

I got no words.

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Ctrl300 For President!!! or at least Head Moderator :)

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well the roland incident was on the previous day

this video recaps the whole weekend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRM5LUT_xbY

this is a video of senna's reaction to ratzenburger's crash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fVoN6sJDhw&NR

who would have known the next day the world would be looking at a similar video of medics trying to revive him....

I clearly remember that day as it is the only day I will ever remember. Every little detail of that day is still fresh in my memory. the news of his death wasn't made public for many hours after the race. it was not known to the drivers at the time of the race restart and after the race the only thing announced was that Senna was on a life support machine (as he was kept for many hours). He was declared brain death much later and the machine was switched off. He had to be resuscitated by a track side tracheotomy.

Now i don;t know what schumacher and others knew at the time of the podium or what that smile was for or what it indicated. But it would certainly be cruel to brand schumacher as heartless and insensitive to senna's death. that is plain wrong. don't confuse racasse at monaco for imola 1994. i don;t think there was a single soul in the paddock who didn't admire and respect senna and to say Schumacher was celebrating knowing that Senna is dead is plain wrong. you don't know you what he knew or what the context of that shot is.

The forum is a place to discuss and talk and share our passions for F1. not a place to win arguments and make inane comments....

keep it truthful....

Respect!

I saw the clip and have just read your comments above. My intial reaction was that MS was displaying insensitivity to Senna's death and his podium antics was plain disrespectful. I am now of the opinion that the clip and it's timing was designed to do just that, make MS look heartless and disrespectful. The drivers on the podium were not aware of Senna's death so behaved as if all was ok and celebrated accordingly.

As the saying goes, a picture can tell a thousand stories - That clip was not representative of that fateful day in 1994 and I watched the race live on tv.

For a true representation of MS the man, witness his reaction to 9/11

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Senna initially didn't even want to take part in the race but sadly decided against that decision.

I remember another story from a book of barrichello's where he was unconcious in hospital after a massive crash in friday practice of the same GP. When he came around, it was on the Sunday morning and Senna was sitting next to his bed looking over him. That was the last time RB would ever see his fellow countryman. Senna was a true superstar in every sence of the word!

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I remember another story from a book of barrichello's where he was unconcious in hospital after a massive crash in friday practice of the same GP. When he came around, it was on the Sunday morning and Senna was sitting next to his bed looking over him. That was the last time RB would ever see his fellow countryman. Senna was a true superstar in every sence of the word!

He and Rubens were close friends, what would u expect. When Ralf crashed at Indy 04 and wasnt moving, Schu slowed right down in his ferrari and had a good look as he went past, so maybe you see he is human and has feelings?

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Senna initially didn't even want to take part in the race but sadly decided against that decision.

I remember another story from a book of barrichello's where he was unconcious in hospital after a massive crash in friday practice of the same GP. When he came around, it was on the Sunday morning and Senna was sitting next to his bed looking over him. That was the last time RB would ever see his fellow countryman. Senna was a true superstar in every sence of the word!

And used doubtul behavior on the track on more than one occasion.

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He and Rubens were close friends, what would u expect. When Ralf crashed at Indy 04 and wasnt moving, Schu slowed right down in his ferrari and had a good look as he went past, so maybe you see he is human and has feelings?

No, Michael just wanted to ask his brother if he was in his will!

And used doubtul behavior on the track on more than one occasion.

But as we have all discussed not even nearly to the extent of a certain German.

I can understand why you are sour towards Senna though, since he did to your mate Berger what Alonso has done to Fisichello! Dont get me wrong though, I thought Berger was a great guy never the less!

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i wouldnt say senna visiting his friend in hospital makes him a superstar

I would say the fact that he was the greatest Motor Racing driver to ever race on this planet does though!

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I would say the fact that he was the greatest Motor Racing driver to ever race on this planet does though!

yes but thats irrelevant to what we're talking about! ah well i'm not that bothered

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yes but thats irrelevant to what we're talking about! ah well i'm not that bothered

I was just saying that even though he was this massive high profile driver, he still had time to go to a mates bedside. He was a great person, and used to donate A LOT of money to charities ect.

A lot of superstars in all sports drift off the ground and loose touch with reality, Senna didn't!

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No, Michael just wanted to ask his brother if he was in his will!

But as we have all discussed not even nearly to the extent of a certain German.

I can understand why you are sour towards Senna though, since he did to your mate Berger what Alonso has done to Fisichello! Dont get me wrong though, I thought Berger was a great guy never the less!

I'm not at all sour for Berger. He was a geat character and in my opinion a great driver as well. You probably don't remember that Senna and Berger got along very well. You probably don't know that Berger aknowledged the fact that he couldn't dedicate to F1 as much as Senna in order to beat him. Senna had a lot of respect for Gehrard. I have no problem about Senna beating Gerhard. Looks like you have a big problem with Schumacher incredible achievements though. B)

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I'm not at all sour for Berger. He was a geat character and in my opinion a great driver as well. You probably don't remember that Senna and Berger got along very well. You probably don't know that Berger aknowledged the fact that he couldn't dedicate to F1 as much as Senna in order to beat him. Senna had a lot of respect for Gehrard. I have no problem about Senna beating Gerhard. Looks like you have a big problem with Schumacher incredible achievements though. B)

The only problem I have is with how Schumacher has gone about getting his achievements done and dusted.

But this has has been going on in a tug of war in this post and others a bit too much now is is becoming a bit boring now.

Yeah, like I said although not a "great" in F1, Berger was a great personality! There is no doubt about that!

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This discussion is pointless.

The Schumacher side won't bugde, neither will the oposition.

I will make a couple of final remarks.

Everybody knew Roland was dead and that Ruebens was seriously injured at raceday. Furthermore, at least 90% of the drivers knew Senna was dead after the race.

If Michael (or Mika but as it has it we are not dicussing him) sees it fit to celebrate it is of very poor taste. He did not see it fit to celebrate or smile after A1 in 2002 nor after Idny 2005, why would he find the occasion to smile and put on a happy face after Imola 1994?

the fact that he did makes me, and hopefully most of the non-tifosi's, question his personality. I understand that the tifosi's can't undertand this due to extreme bias, but please understand why we question his morals as they appear to be rather narsisistic.

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I understand that the tifosi's can't undertand this due to extreme bias, but please understand why we question his morals as they appear to be rather narsisistic.

I'll venture a go. I'm not a tifosi, just a Schumacher fan, so in theory even less likely to agree with you but i'll try and put my objective hat on and step away from my Schumacher prayer mat.....

Can you give me one reason why Michael would have gone out of his way to intentionally insult not only the world of motorsport but the whole world by celebrating when it was inappropriate? I'll throw it you; your bias AGAINST Michael is stopping you from believing that maybe he meant no harm. I like to believe that more likely, in his naivety he didn't know how to react. Should he play down the achievement? Should he celebrate?

I think it's easy to assume the moral high ground, especially 12 years after the event. If it had been me, i would like to believe that i would have been more reserved, not celebrated and shown more respect, but i don't know. To bring into question Michael's morality for one public display of emotion is to do him an unreasnoble disservice in my opinion. You have no idea what kind of person he is really. Only a balanced asessment of Michael's character should draw you to conclusions about his morality.

I find it a little ironic that people use words like 'arrogant', 'devious' and 'selfish' to describe one of the only few drivers to balance a successful career with a beautiful family.

Look at Jacques, a self confessed loner and geek. Who lies awake at night wondering what could and should have been; Michael or Jacques?.....Where's Jacques wife and kids?

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here is the definitive proof, from the Speed's F1 Decade show the Puma is talking about. I hope this will bring the matter to rest....

Thanks for that, it shows my memory isn't as bad as I thought...and it showed that they knew about Ayrton on the podium and that although Mika was clapping, he wasn't smiling or looking happy (neither was Larini)--it was a polite clap for the anthem. So what was M$'s reaction? He was smiling, pointing at his crew and putting his fist happily in the air.

Here's what I think: M$ is a self-absorbed guy that didn't really care about Ayrton's condition. The only thought going through his mind appeared to be 'Yay, I won!'. In the press-conference, he did a good job to look somber, but that only shows he's good at PR.

(Bruce, I tried to look for the tape I have, but living with a toddler means my stuff sometimes goes missing and is found much later in odd places...the only tapes I could find of the '94 Decade were Brazil and Japan...excellent racing, especially by Alesi and the v12 Ferrari, but not exactly what I was looking for ;) )

I'll end my part in this thread by saying that even if you take this situation out of the equation, you are still left with a Schumacher legacy tainted by controversy. He holds quite alot of records, and is probably the best all-around driver on the grid, but he will carry his many questionable exploits with him along with those records.

Given the choice, I would rather be remembered like Sir Stirling Moss, with no grand records or statistics to his name, than be remembered like Michael Schumacher will be.

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Thanks for that, it shows my memory isn't as bad as I thought...and it showed that they knew about Ayrton on the podium and that although Mika was clapping, he wasn't smiling or looking happy (neither was Larini)--it was a polite clap for the anthem. So what was M$'s reaction? He was smiling, pointing at his crew and putting his fist happily in the air.

Here's what I think: M$ is a self-absorbed guy that didn't really care about Ayrton's condition. The only thought going through his mind appeared to be 'Yay, I won!'. In the press-conference, he did a good job to look somber, but that only shows he's good at PR.

(Bruce, I tried to look for the tape I have, but living with a toddler means my stuff sometimes goes missing and is found much later in odd places...the only tapes I could find of the '94 Decade were Brazil and Japan...excellent racing, especially by Alesi and the v12 Ferrari, but not exactly what I was looking for ;) )

I'll end my part in this thread by saying that even if you take this situation out of the equation, you are still left with a Schumacher legacy tainted by controversy. He holds quite alot of records, and is probably the best all-around driver on the grid, but he will carry his many questionable exploits with him along with those records.

Given the choice, I would rather be remembered like Sir Stirling Moss, with no grand records or statistics to his name, than be remembered like Michael Schumacher will be.

:yawn: Isn'it time to move to another subject :eusa_think:

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Here's what I think: M$ is a self-absorbed guy that didn't really care about Ayrton's condition. The only thought going through his mind appeared to be 'Yay, I won!'. In the press-conference, he did a good job to look somber, but that only shows he's good at PR.

Given the choice, I would rather be remembered like Sir Stirling Moss, with no grand records or statistics to his name, than be remembered like Michael Schumacher will be.

Well i suppose every other driver was in tears, totally destroyed and incapable of racing again were they? Michael lacked emotion due to being good at PR during the press conference? Would you have respected him more for declaring some sort of false love and respect for Ayrton?

Losing Ayrton upset me but it didn't shake me to the core, does that make me self absorbed too?

Once again i find myself frustrated at this tendancy to brandish Michael as a certain type of person based on your tainted perceptions.

If you would honestly prefer to be remembered in the vain of Stirling Moss then good luck to you and i mean that sincerely. I can think of many worse drivers who's careers i would want to emulate.

But i'll take Michael's thanks. I'm beginning to tire of repeating the same old sound bites so i won't pore them out here. You especially will have heard them a hundred times already and don't need reminding of Michael's achievements. I will say only this; show me another driver who has been in the sport at the front for as long as Michael without causing controversy. The very nature of being at the front is that you are in the limelight, your every move is scrutinised, analysed and judged. You will make mistakes and when you make them they will make the headlines because you are a big name. There is nothing shameful in making mistakes or allowing a part of your character flaw to enter the equation.

Frank Williams has always said that he would rather a driver fall off the road giving 100% than a driver come home safe having given 80%. Well, Michael gives 100% and that means mistakes, ruthlessness, unpopularity but a Sh#t load of great drives.

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Well i suppose every other driver was in tears, totally destroyed and incapable of racing again were they? Michael lacked emotion due to being good at PR during the press conference? Would you have respected him more for declaring some sort of false love and respect for Ayrton?

Losing Ayrton upset me but it didn't shake me to the core, does that make me self absorbed too?

Once again i find myself frustrated at this tendancy to brandish Michael as a certain type of person based on your tainted perceptions.

If you would honestly prefer to be remembered in the vain of Stirling Moss then good luck to you and i mean that sincerely. I can think of many worse drivers who's careers i would want to emulate.

But i'll take Michael's thanks. I'm beginning to tire of repeating the same old sound bites so i won't pore them out here. You especially will have heard them a hundred times already and don't need reminding of Michael's achievements. I will say only this; show me another driver who has been in the sport at the front for as long as Michael without causing controversy. The very nature of being at the front is that you are in the limelight, your every move is scrutinised, analysed and judged. You will make mistakes and when you make them they will make the headlines because you are a big name. There is nothing shameful in making mistakes or allowing a part of your character flaw to enter the equation.

Frank Williams has always said that he would rather a driver fall off the road giving 100% than a driver come home safe having given 80%. Well, Michael gives 100% and that means mistakes, ruthlessness, unpopularity but a Sh#t load of great drives.

Rubbish, Puma's analysis was spot on and I thank him for bringing Michael's depraved indifference to my attention - I for one, was not aware of it but now that I am, I have a different impression of Michael. Not only is he a poor sportsman, as has been amply demonstrated in this season as in past seasons, but he is a licentious degenerate as well. Were it not for his contribution to the Hurricane Katrina victims, I would be calling for his burning at the stake. How dare he celebrate on the world stage after learning of the departure of a colleague!?! It's an outrage that won't be forgotten...

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...you are still left with a Schumacher legacy tainted by controversy. He holds quite alot of records, and is probably the best all-around driver on the grid, but he will carry his many questionable exploits with him along with those records...

Amen, Bro...

Youve done my new signature... -_-

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