Clicky

Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Ctrl300

Williams F1

Recommended Posts

No, Mike, let's not confuse the term sports car with something that is sold under the Lexus badge. They do not produce any sports cars and never have. Sticking a high-output engine into a luxury coupe does not equate to producing a sports car - quite the opposite in fact. While such a car may run a fast 0-60mph or quarter mile time I dare say that it would fair much worse around a lap of the Nurburgring and would probably not be able to complete four laps at speed period.

I wasn't arguing reality, but perception. You are possibly correct (though I have seen some Lexi SCs at Autocross lap well....), but apparently my point is being missed despite how I try to explain it. It seems that I'm coming off saying that a Lexus SC is a 'sports car' as you and I would define it. That is not the case. I'm saying that Toyota is building up the SC and Lexus brand to be perceived as a luxury/performance line.

Key word there is 'building'. I don't believe my arguments regarding Toyota to be too far-fetched.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't arguing reality, but perception. You are possibly correct (though I have seen some Lexi SCs at Autocross lap well....), but apparently my point is being missed despite how I try to explain it. It seems that I'm coming off saying that a Lexus SC is a 'sports car' as you and I would define it. That is not the case. I'm saying that Toyota is building up the SC and Lexus brand to be perceived as a luxury/performance line.

Key word there is 'building'. I don't believe my arguments regarding Toyota to be too far-fetched.

Oh sorry, it seems I misread your comments on the subject. I have no doubt that you are correct in your assessment of Toyota's plans for Lexus... All of the luxury brands (Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, etc) place great emphasis on building the perception that their cars are sporty. Of course, you and I know that the reality is that none of them actually produce a proper sports car - save, perhaps BMW with their M3 and Mercedes with their SLK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Williams Supertech engines beat both of your in the Sh!te engine contest!

:lol: You have no clue what you are talking about, do you know they were just rebadged Renault engines, and they were bad, but not dire.

I nominate Asiatech by the way :D (though weren't they just old Peugeots?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:lol: You have no clue what you are talking about, do you know they were just rebadged Renault engines, and they were bad, but not dire.

I nominate Asiatech by the way :D (though weren't they just old Peugeots?)

Good to have big mouth back!

And clearly you didnt watch 97 & 98 And see the difference in pace of the Williams's in those too years!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And clearly you didnt watch 97 & 98 And see the difference in pace of the Williams's in those too years!

:rolleyes: It was the same engine in '97 and '98.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2004, FW26: Infamous walrus-nosed car designed by Gavin Fisher. I'm not sure why he didn't stay with the basic design of the FW25, but the 26 was decent and netted 4th in that year's constructor's championship.

this topic was discussed a few minths ago,and ultimately the agreement was that the dismal performance (TO the point of it being incompetent) of the drivers in the '03 season ultimately led to the generation of "pressure" from BMW which lead to relations souring,and head sidelining himself and the invention of the now (in)famous walrus .and ultimately had they developed the fw25 aggressively (and had Head not dropped the ball)we would not have seen this day.they still won brasil after they abandoned the walrus :eusa_think: . infact i remember Dan even alluded to the fact that should williams dissapear one day,JPM would be one of the main culprits.funny he disappeared quickly anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
this topic was discussed a few minths ago,and ultimately the agreement was that the dismal performance (TO the point of it being incompetent) of the drivers in the '03 season ultimately led to the generation of "pressure" from BMW which lead to relations souring,and head sidelining himself and the invention of the now (in)famous walrus .and ultimately had they developed the fw25 aggressively (and had Head not dropped the ball)we would not have seen this day.they still won brasil after they abandoned the walrus :eusa_think: . infact i remember Dan even alluded to the fact that should williams dissapear one day,JPM would be one of the main culprits.funny he disappeared quickly anyway.

I don't believe I agree with that concensus of opinon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
this topic was discussed a few minths ago,and ultimately the agreement was that the dismal performance (TO the point of it being incompetent) of the drivers in the '03 season ultimately led to the generation of "pressure" from BMW which lead to relations souring,and head sidelining himself and the invention of the now (in)famous walrus .and ultimately had they developed the fw25 aggressively (and had Head not dropped the ball)we would not have seen this day.they still won brasil after they abandoned the walrus :eusa_think: . infact i remember Dan even alluded to the fact that should williams dissapear one day,JPM would be one of the main culprits.funny he disappeared quickly anyway.

It was Terzi, who was responsible for the nose, not Gavin...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It was Terzi, who was responsible for the nose, not Gavin...

Gavin was responsible for the whole car. He may not have actually sat in front of the CAD computer for any given bit, but he signed-off on it. That being said, it wasn't a particularly horrid car; likely due to Gavin's excellent overall design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gavin was responsible for the whole car. He may not have actually sat in front of the CAD computer for any given bit, but he signed-off on it. That being said, it wasn't a particularly horrid car; likely due to Gavin's excellent overall design.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns12323.html

The new Williams-BMW FW26 is certainly rather different from some of the modern Formula 1 machinery and there is little doubt that the innovative design of the nose section of the car has come from the work of the team's aerodynamic department under former Ferrari engineer Dr Antonia Terzi, who joined the Williams team in the middle of 2002 and was involved in the development of the FW25. This time, however, Terzi had more freedom to be innovative and the result is very interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns12323.html

The new Williams-BMW FW26 is certainly rather different from some of the modern Formula 1 machinery and there is little doubt that the innovative design of the nose section of the car has come from the work of the team's aerodynamic department under former Ferrari engineer Dr Antonia Terzi, who joined the Williams team in the middle of 2002 and was involved in the development of the FW25. This time, however, Terzi had more freedom to be innovative and the result is very interesting.

Indeed, but lets remember the internal structure of Williams, shall we? Gavin was Chief Designer, which means that the aero department answered to him. Terzi may have been given free reign to design the nose, but the responsibility for the whole car, including the nose, rests with Gavin. Again, it is a testament to Gavin's brilliance that, despite the rather odd nose, the overall car performed well.

Here's a link describing Terzi's position within the team:

http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/teams/10

Here's a clip of the relevant part:

"One year after the successes, the Williams team hired Antonia Terzi from Ferrari as head of aerodynamics and came up with the tusk nosed Williams FW26. The car proved to be a trouble child and the team fired Terzi and reverted to a conventional nose. More and more problems arose between the management and BMW for not allowing BMW to buy a majority stake in the team. Montoya on the other hand was unsatisfied by the treatment he got at the team and decided to leave for McLaren in 2005. Although he managed to win the last race of 2004, the next season, McLaren proved to be the right choice for Juan Pablo."

Our views, Panchito, are not mutually exclusive ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some good news, and a fresh start to Williams F1:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17546.html

Williams building up aero department

Williams team is moving to improve its weakness this year with a major recruitment in the aerodynamics department, expanding Loic Bigois's team with the addition of Renault F1's Jon Tomlinson, who has been working in recent years with the aerodynamic team at Enstone. It is not clear when he will join the team but the team is confident that it will help to improve an area which has been a weakness in recent years.

The recruitment is good news for the team which has been having a tough time this year and is current seen to be struggling with just a few points. However in F1 perceptions are important and although performance has to some extent tailed off as the manufacturer teams have sorted out their V8 engines, the team did have a strong start to the year and but for reliability problems (admittedly a big weakness) Williams could have had as many as 50 points in the Constructors' World Championship. That would have put Williams fourth or fifth in the championship and perceptions would have completely changed as that would have been a very good effort against the big manufacturer teams.

This is obviously very frustrating for the team but at the same time an indication that the desire to win races has not for one minute gone away and that Williams is intending to be a big player again when the new relationship begins with Toyota in 2007.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...