Alonso: Is Nothing Good Enough For Him?

[Max Mosley 2]

Yeah Brad. (Actually it wouldn't be hard to out-earn me but thats not the point.)

[Loser Boy 0]

It's nothing to do with being Finnish, either. Mika Hakkinen, Juha Kankunnen and Tommi Makkinen, for example, all were great personalities. Kimi is just mind bogglingly dull. Dull, dull, boring and dull. But I'm sure he's a very nice chap and, anyway, I'm more interested in seeing him race (which, of course, is what he's paid for) than hearing him drone on monotonously.

1987? Toyota? Jousting with Miki Biason (Lancia Delta)?

Well , on the thread topic, Alonso better get used to an "unhelpful" team. McLaren have been wanting Kimi not to win for 5 years! If Alonso has indeed said this , there can be 3 interpretations:

1) He's cracking under pressure, feeling strangulated & venting his frustration by alleging untrue things.

2) It's a Renault game to lull Ferrari into complacency by giving the impression of infighting going on in the team.

3)Most unlikely, what he's saying is true.

[Jean Todt 4]

Few people excel at school. What your job at school is to learn known facts, whoever does this best is supposely clever. The others, they don't have a great capacity for learning. Their imagination is'nt fired up as it should be, maybe the facts is'nt presented in a interesting way. It does'nt mean they're stupid or boring in any way. They (the ones who memorise facts the best) are the ones who go further in life(education), get jobs and then stagnate. Unfortunately they get overtaken by these exact people who has'nt had a great capacity for learning, it's all down to one thing...ambition. Notice how the clever guys at school don't really get anywhere in life.

What is the purpose of this lesson?

Kimi hates talking!!!! His brother use to translate to his own parents what Kimi wanted when he was younger. Kimi would mumble and his brother would say, Kimi wants this or that. Kimi does'nt have a great capacity for talking. In fact, much as he has already improved from the first time we heard him talk, he'll never be an excellent speaker. It does'nt make him boring (do we know the guy personally??) or stupid. We do know his ambition to win the championship, no doubt in my mind he will get there. You're already admiring his skill, stop whining about him being annoyingly boring when he's talking, he's always gonna be that unless you accept it....

well said!

[Player(1) 0]

1987? Toyota? Jousting with Miki Biason (Lancia Delta)?

Well , on the thread topic, Alonso better get used to an "unhelpful" team. McLaren have been wanting Kimi not to win for 5 years! If Alonso has indeed said this , there can be 3 interpretations:

1) He's cracking under pressure, feeling strangulated & venting his frustration by alleging untrue things.

2) It's a Renault game to lull Ferrari into complacency by giving the impression of infighting going on in the team.

3)Most unlikely, what he's saying is true.

Feeling strangulated by the FIA!, thats completely true with all the bulls##t they are putting Renault through this year. He has no fear of MS and hasent shown any bad reaction to pressure from him, Renault and Alonso know they can beat MS and Ferrari in a fair fight but when the FIA are moving the goal posts who wouldnt get frustrated?

The untrue things are nicely explained by the article "Schumikonen" posted, think we can all call that friendly fire

[raikkonen_dominates 0]

and ofcourse Renault is happy for that part....what else does he expect them to do....some people take the postives of out a day's job...

Well, you expect them to let Fernando pass Fisichella in race, which actually also happened

[goferrarigo 0]

Kimi hates talking!!!! His brother use to translate to his own parents what Kimi wanted when he was younger. Kimi would mumble and his brother would say, Kimi wants this or that. Kimi does'nt have a great capacity for talking. In fact, much as he has already improved from the first time we heard him talk, he'll never be an excellent speaker. It does'nt make him boring (do we know the guy personally??) or stupid. We do know his ambition to win the championship, no doubt in my mind he will get there. You're already admiring his skill, stop whining about him being annoyingly boring when he's talking, he's always gonna be that unless you accept it....

never knew that fact

[Autumnpuma 0]

Of course Alonso is faster, what is also absolutely indisputable is that Renault used team orders to extremes, and that Fisi slowed down and let Alonso through - Symonds has admitted it. If you are going to remain in denial about that, of course you'll get stick.

I was focusing on one point and ignoring the intent of your thread. Sorry.

I agree that Renault has been using team orders and Alonso still isn't happy with how they've been doing it. Alonso seems to have a wrong-headed view on how team orders should work.

I'm all for bashing the guy for this idiotic outlook, but let's keep his driving skills out of the equation. You simply cannot compare Alonso to Fisico in this regard.

[Jenson_Rules 0]

Alonso is a cheeky b#####d, END OF!

[Schumikonen 2]

I was focusing on one point and ignoring the intent of your thread. Sorry.

I agree that Renault has been using team orders and Alonso still isn't happy with how they've been doing it. Alonso seems to have a wrong-headed view on how team orders should work.

I'm all for bashing the guy for this idiotic outlook, but let's keep his driving skills out of the equation. You simply cannot compare Alonso to Fisico in this regard.

Team order are illegal in F1 and everybody knows that, FIA can penalise Renault because of this and a bunch of people here will be here saying that FIA is helping Ferrari when all of you konws that Team order are banned and all of yopu knows and Symonds said that they are really giving team order to their drivers before the race, so it's not a secret, now a can say that FIA is helping Renault for not doing anything about this, everybody saw Fisi runnng in tanden with Alonso to block Schumi, that's illegal to and what FIA did about it? nothing.

FIA is not helping anybody they just have a bussines and they wanto to kepp it going, they knows that if they do something against renault a this stage, there would be a lot of critics in the press and in forums like this saying that FIA is helping Schummi or Ferrari, so they prefer to stay out of this even when they see thing that we all know that are illegal.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Team order are illegal in F1 and everybody knows that, FIA can penalise Renault because of this and a bunch of people here will be here saying that FIA is helping Ferrari when all of you konws that Team order are banned and all of yopu knows and Symonds said that they are really giving team order to their drivers before the race, so it's not a secret, now a can say that FIA is helping Renault for not doing anything about this, everybody saw Fisi runnng in tanden with Alonso to block Schumi, that's illegal to and what FIA did about it? nothing.

FIA is not helping anybody they just have a bussines and they wanto to kepp it going, they knows that if they do something against renault a this stage, there would be a lot of critics in the press and in forums like this saying that FIA is helping Schummi or Ferrari, so they prefer to stay out of this even when they see thing that we all know that are illegal.

The team orders rule is rubbish. I could care less whether they enforce it or not and I would be the last to complain about it either way.

[goferrarigo 0]

The team orders rule is rubbish. I could care less whether they enforce it or not and I would be the last to complain about it either way.

You may not but other people on the forum would surly flame fia for this

[Autumnpuma 0]

You may not but other people on the forum would surly flame fia for this

Rules are rules and I'm training myself to live with the bad ones....

[QWERTY 0]

I was focusing on one point and ignoring the intent of your thread. Sorry.

I agree that Renault has been using team orders and Alonso still isn't happy with how they've been doing it. Alonso seems to have a wrong-headed view on how team orders should work.

I'm all for bashing the guy for this idiotic outlook, but let's keep his driving skills out of the equation. You simply cannot compare Alonso to Fisico in this regard.

Alonso was too harsh on his tires and the 20 sec lead didn't do him any good. He had Fisi behind him and didn't need to push that hard to get a big gap. Yet he still manage to lose all the advantage he had. If Alonso had been saving tires he would have won square and fair but that was not the case. Is not the first time Fisi had to save Nando another race Alonso went out an excursion to the dirt and hadn't had Fisi behind him he would not score on that race. This has to do with driving skills and the boy still needs some lessons from MS he mite be now the one having the best raw speed but Schumi can still teach him few tricks.

[Autumnpuma 0]

Alonso was too harsh on his tires and the 20 sec lead didn't do him any good. He had Fisi behind him and didn't need to push that hard to get a big gap. Yet he still manage to lose all the advantage he had. If Alonso had been saving tires he would have won square and fair but that was not the case. Is not the first time Fisi had to save Nando another race Alonso went out an excursion to the dirt and hadn't had Fisi behind him he would not score on that race. This has to do with driving skills and the boy still needs some lessons from MS he mite be now the one having the best raw speed but Schumi can still teach him few tricks.

The whole grid could do with taking a few lessons from M$. Much as I dislike his occasional shady tactics, he is still the complete package.

As for the rest of it, I suppose you are, like me, entitled to your opinion on the matter;)

[BradSpeedMan 6]

The whole grid could do with taking a few lessons from M$. Much as I dislike his occasional shady tactics, he is still the complete package.

As for the rest of it, I suppose you are, like me, entitled to your opinion on the matter;)

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Team order are illegal in F1 and everybody knows that, FIA can penalise Renault because of this

No, its illegal to come on the radio and order a driver to move over. Its not illegal for a driver to move over and let another driver through. Renault and Ferrari will have a pre-race agreement with their drivers, and thats not against the rules

[Schumikonen 2]

No, its illegal to come on the radio and order a driver to move over. Its not illegal for a driver to move over and let another driver through. Renault and Ferrari will have a pre-race agreement with their drivers, and thats not against the rules

Does the rules says that?

I know that a driver can move over to let another one to win or take a better position, but now the have a pre-race agreement like you said, but this one it's impose by the team, Fisi was fighting for the third place in the WDC so he has no reason to let Alonso by when he was second because he was still doing the job for the team, they would get 14 points anyway, so Fisi was the big looser on that move that he only made because the team asking to do that before the race, that's a team order and if is like you said that only the call on the radio is illegal, we will have team order forever, they can put a digital display in the car and ask the driver to move over and that is not a call on the radio and still is a team order. I thought that teams order were banned at all, Fisi did the same that Rubens did in Austria, he moved over to let Alonso by, and this is worse because he is risking his position in the WDC.

I found this in Regulations http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/img/regulatio...006sport_en.pdf

F1 SPORTING REGULATIONS

THE RACE

147 Team Orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited.

I don't see anything here about radios, just that team orders are prohibited so I think that we are seeing some illegal situation on renault in last race and said about from FIA they must be supporting Renault. (I am just talking like Fa and Renault's fans)

[cavallino 2]

No, its illegal to come on the radio and order a driver to move over. Its not illegal for a driver to move over and let another driver through. Renault and Ferrari will have a pre-race agreement with their drivers, and thats not against the rules

Bollocks, that's just Renault trying to obscure the issue. The rule says "team orders that interfere with the race result are illegal", there is nothing about when the orders are given. What Renault have been doing for the past two years and what Mclaren did last year is quite cleatrly illegal.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

But they cant make it totally illegal altogether, cos teams will find ways of getting round it, and there's no way it can be stopped. Alonso could be catching fisichella, and then Fisi could 'accidentally' run a bit wide, and alonso would go through. There would be no proof at all that they were using team orders. But you're right, there will still always be team orders and its just part of F1. If Fisi was a better driver and was still in with a chance of winning the title himself, he wouldnt have to be a victim of team orders. He's part of a team who are fighting for both championships, so its normal that he will have to play the team game

[Schumikonen 2]

But they cant make it totally illegal altogether, cos teams will find ways of getting round it, and there's no way it can be stopped. Alonso could be catching fisichella, and then Fisi could 'accidentally' run a bit wide, and alonso would go through. There would be no proof at all that they were using team orders. But you're right, there will still always be team orders and its just part of F1. If Fisi was a better driver and was still in with a chance of winning the title himself, he wouldnt have to be a victim of team orders. He's part of a team who are fighting for both championships, so its normal that he will have to play the team game

the thing is that at this moment team orders are illegal and they are clearly using them, and nobody in FIA or any other body in F1 is saying anything about this even when Symonds confesed that they do a pre-race agreement

[cavallino 2]

Nowadays we have telemetry that can tell us when anything was done intentionally and when drivers make a mistake

Seriously, of course the rule is silly and unimplementable, but it sickens me when hypocritical b#####ds like Ron Dennis and Flavio use team orders after the ruckus they created after Austria 2002.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Seriously, of course the rule is silly and unimplementable, but it sickens me when hypocritical b#####ds like Ron Dennis and Flavio use team orders after the ruckus they created after Austria 2002.

But to be fair, at Austria 02 it was already 99% clear that Schuey was on his way to another championship. There really was no need to swap positions, especially when Barrichello had outpaced schumi all weekend.

The team orders being used in these final races of the season are justified and make sense

[cavallino 2]

But to be fair, at Austria 02 it was already 99% clear that Schuey was on his way to another championship. There really was no need to swap positions, especially when Barrichello had outpaced schumi all weekend.

The team orders being used in these final races of the season are justified and make sense

Let us leave that for the teams to decide shall we? Ferrari have lived through years like 97, 98, 99 - they didn't want to risk that. This year, with 7 races done, some of us felt that the season was over. Things can turn very quickly, especially in the tyre war era. Let's leave the decision to the teams rather than set stupid arbitrary boundaries about when team orders are justified. The drivers drive for the team - they disagree, they are welcome to leave. Irvine accepted that, Fisichella has accepted that. Rubens never could, but until Honda he didn't have a choice.

[mock 0]

You're already admiring his skill, stop whining about him being annoyingly boring when he's talking, he's always gonna be that unless you accept it....

I think this is very fairly put. In any case, we want to see him race and not talk, whats the point about whining about Kimi being dull and at the same time castigate Alonso for talking too much ??

[pabloh20 1]

I think this is very fairly put. In any case, we want to see him race and not talk, whats the point about whining about Kimi being dull and at the same time castigate Alonso for talking too much ??

Agreed - we want to see drivers race at the end of the day.

There are other good points in this thread, but I think the overwhelming trend is that we don't really care that teams have team orders because they will go on no matter what. I suppose F1 is a slightly odd in that it's a team sport, but with the drivers competing against each other and yet the team is still trying to get the drivers to win the wdc as well as them trying to win wcc!