Autumnpuma

Poll: Most Important Factor In Winning The Wdc?

What has been the most important factor in winning this year?   42 members have voted

  1. 1. I know it's a bit of all three, but choose the MOST important

    • Driver
      3
    • Team/Car
      27
    • Tyre
      8
    • Engine
      2
    • FIA decisions
      2

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65 posts in this topic

Same old, same old. JV is no longer in F1. Get over it and move on OK, or are you going to continue throw crap at him for decades. I brought up JV only to demonstrate that who drives what matters very little in today's F1. Lets for a moment discount MS and FA's points this season. Who would be leading the points championship now, and who would be second. Imagine that.

Murray

Kubica is fast, but so are many others with the technology available today. Kubica is as good as NH and JV in the BMW/Sauber. A little more experience and who knows how far he can go. BMW have done a lot of things right this year, and if they can deliver a car capable of winning, I think both he and NH will do fine.

Is there a driver in F1 who has the character to be bigger then F1? MS, JV and soon DC are the end of an era. I see no one coming up the ranks who can hold a candle to those three for appeal. Button comes close, but the rest of the guys are robots to me. They don't seem to have a life or an opinion on anything. Maybe the media spotlight will be focused on someone else who will emerge as a character player. Right now, I have no idea who that will be.

I like that post. I just do. :)

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Yeah I agree that RK has lots of potential, most drivers are boring and technology is far too important now.

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Your reasons are not very factual...

1)Felipe Massa last year was in a Sauber and this year is in a Ferrari, you just can't compare the situation okay, but the driver was still there, he often outpaced JV and, anyway, he is young and is improving year after year (just look at his progression since 2002)

2)Face it, JV has simply ended his cycle in F.1. He is 35, he has been out for a year in 2004 after some seasons in an uncompeititive BAR team and that coul have hurted his motivation not to mention that last year, apart from some good performances, he was constantly slower than Massa, while Kubica is fairly an hot talent and has a lot of motivation

3)Last year Ferrari's third place in WCC was just down to Michael...Ferrari wothout him would have finished in an even worse position with such uncompetitive tyres (just look at where Rubens was). MS finished the year ahead of Fisichella and Montoya, who both had a better car than Michael's Ferrari F2005

I based my opinion on my perception of the sport. Yours maybe different. Post a "fact" that contradicts my opinion. MS is a great driver, I am not saying that he is not. As a matter of fact he is the only driver in F1 in my opinion that can actually make a difference in the c#ckpit, unfortunately in today's F1 that matters very little any more. If MS wasn't at Ferrari, FM would be challenging for the championship this year. Is FM a great driver??? maybe, maybe not, but the fact remains that FM would be in the hunt for the WDC with Ferrari. So even without MS, Ferrari would be gunning for the WDC.

As far as Kubica goes. He stepped into a car he knows very well and has performed well. I haven't seen anything out of him that was stellar other then he didn't screw up too bad. He has made lots of mistakes, and benefitted by some retirements. He is capable, young and will get better, so his future looks promising. He may be the next Jenson Button, who knows, but where has Kubica been the last couple of races????

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I like that post. I just do. :)

Thank you.

Yeah I agree that RK has lots of potential, most drivers are boring and technology is far too important now.

On this we agree 100%. :D

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I based my opinion on my perception of the sport. Yours maybe different. Post a "fact" that contradicts my opinion. MS is a great driver, I am not saying that he is not. As a matter of fact he is the only driver in F1 in my opinion that can actually make a difference in the c#ckpit, unfortunately in today's F1 that matters very little any more. If MS wasn't at Ferrari, FM would be challenging for the championship this year. Is FM a great driver??? maybe, maybe not, but the fact remains that FM would be in the hunt for the WDC with Ferrari. So even without MS, Ferrari would be gunning for the WDC.

As far as Kubica goes. He stepped into a car he knows very well and has performed well. I haven't seen anything out of him that was stellar other then he didn't screw up too bad. He has made lots of mistakes, and benefitted by some retirements. He is capable, young and will get better, so his future looks promising. He may be the next Jenson Button, who knows, but where has Kubica been the last couple of races????

In Chine Kubica could have been in for another point finish but BMW did the wrong thing (as they admitted) and pitted him to change his tyres from wet to dry too early and he lost a lot of time.....

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id say being a total backstabbing d#ckhead!! hey its work for alonso 4 the last 2 years he cnt even reconise all reno r doin 4 him

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Good work Autumnpuma. Your American but you still managed to spell tyre correctly. :)

...but in America, we spell it "You're" :lol:

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That's a plan !! By far the most brilliant. We can get FIA to strip Alonso of his Suzuka title for having some extra thingammy jig in his car, or even for bringing the sport into disrepute by his ape like jump on the podium..........

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you get funnier with each post Mock :lol:

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I brought up JV only to demonstrate that who drives what matters very little in today's F1.

It proves quite the opposite. The fact that a rookie can come and be faster than JV just proves that the rookie is good and the JV was well past his sell by date. You are using one example which coincidentally exonerates JV, against most other teammate pairings on the grid where there is a great difference between driver performance over races and over the year. You viewpoint on Massa is also goes against Occam's razor - he beat an ex world champion last year and beat the best driver of this generation more than once this season. Massa is a good driver, as you'll see next year, when the overrated Finn is paired against him.

Kubica is fast, but so are many others with the technology available today.
No they aren't. Look at Rosberg.
Is there a driver in F1 who has the character to be bigger then F1? MS, JV and soon DC are the end of an era. I see no one coming up the ranks who can hold a candle to those three for appeal. Button comes close, but the rest of the guys are robots to me. They don't seem to have a life or an opinion on anything. Maybe the media spotlight will be focused on someone else who will emerge as a character player. Right now, I have no idea who that will be.

Why? Appeal in talking rubbish? Have you read/ heard interviews of Christijan Albers, Robert Kubica, Nico Rosberg etc.? Who the hell cares whether they have what you define as 'life'. Again your JV centric view, you feel you are staring at the end of the world.

If MS wasn't at Ferrari, FM would be challenging for the championship this year.

Why do you say that? Why is he nowhere near Michael despite Ferrari not using team orders for most of the season?

So even without MS, Ferrari would be gunning for the WDC.
Again, why do you make that odd statement?
He may be the next Jenson Button, who knows, but where has Kubica been the last couple of races????

He's made mistakes because he's a rookie, it is a good time to make mistakes. He was good in China, until he made the mistake of switching to dries too early.

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It proves quite the opposite. The fact that a rookie can come and be faster than JV just proves that the rookie is good and the JV was well past his sell by date. You are using one example which coincidentally exonerates JV, against most other teammate pairings on the grid where there is a great difference between driver performance over races and over the year. You viewpoint on Massa is also goes against Occam's razor - he beat an ex world champion last year and beat the best driver of this generation more than once this season. Massa is a good driver, as you'll see next year, when the overrated Finn is paired against him.

No they aren't. Look at Rosberg.

Why? Appeal in talking rubbish? Have you read/ heard interviews of Christijan Albers, Robert Kubica, Nico Rosberg etc.? Who the hell cares whether they have what you define as 'life'. Again your JV centric view, you feel you are staring at the end of the world.

Why do you say that? Why is he nowhere near Michael despite Ferrari not using team orders for most of the season?

Again, why do you make that odd statement?

He's made mistakes because he's a rookie, it is a good time to make mistakes. He was good in China, until he made the mistake of switching to dries too early.

For the record

Last year I said Massa was good and he would be stepping up into the realm of "best drivers"

I have no issue with Kubica. I said he is a very good driver

You kind of contradicted yourself. You are critical of my comments that FM would be challenging for the WDC in a Ferrari if MS wasn't there, and then you go and spout the exact same viewpoint with your views on Massa next year.??????

Someone is fixated with JV, but it sure isn't me. Can you stuff a sock in it already.

Thanks

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First i would lke to welocome you back YHR , and yep i agree with all your comments on this , yep they are always talking against JV ...those recently interesting in F1 these days they don't know nothing about F1 ....so i can understand them for that me and persons like YHR always debate hard on these issues ....

yes NasCar i think it dbetter then f1 don't tell that all these young drivers 16 years to 20 are all superstar yeah F1 can be driven by anyone these days and for that they lost the interset once had ,

why theres always people debating that SEnna is Better then MS cos people know what i am saying so trying to compare the ers between them everyone or atleast fan of F1 not if drivers agree that the 80's and the beginnig of the 90's where more intersting and to drive in you have to be really talented ..

16 or 17 vettel impressed in BMW if that the case or this boy is superman or the sport is rubbish i go to the second one ....

and again regards JV all MS fan you need to digestive the fact that JV beat MS and that MS never beat JV ...it irelevant that MS wins a 5 titles when JV was there , but you can't say he beat Jv ...you know what i mean .....

so continue to talk against JV means that MS with all his records and titles he still can't say i beat JV

but with all his bad luck and all JV can say i beat MS ......and that time there where no excuse that MS is old he was in his best years..

so get over it now ....

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and again regards JV all MS fan you need to digestive the fact that JV beat MS and that MS never beat JV ...it irelevant that MS wins a 5 titles when JV was there , but you can't say he beat Jv ...you know what i mean .....

so continue to talk against JV means that MS with all his records and titles he still can't say i beat JV

but with all his bad luck and all JV can say i beat MS ......and that time there where no excuse that MS is old he was in his best years..

so get over it now ....

I am having touble understanding this - what constitutes JV beating Schumacher, that doesn't translate to Schumacher beating JV ?

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and again regards JV all MS fan you need to digestive the fact that JV beat MS and that MS never beat JV ...it irelevant that MS wins a 5 titles when JV was there , but you can't say he beat Jv ...you know what i mean .....

so continue to talk against JV means that MS with all his records and titles he still can't say i beat JV

but with all his bad luck and all JV can say i beat MS ......and that time there where no excuse that MS is old he was in his best years..

Only a JV fan would say this kind of nonsense. Look at it this way - with the 1997 williams car, JV should've destroyed everyone and taken the title easily. But schumacher managed to fight him all the way in a ferrari that was nowhere near as good as the williams (just look at irvine's results). So I really, really doubt that MS thinks to himself "oh no, i never beat JV" cos MS knows that he's ten times better than JV

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Indeed Jem. JV was a great champion but his fans are somewhat fanatical and its sad because it gives the great man a bad name.

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No Murray. His music does that. ^_^

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I also chose Tires (TYRES) only because of what has transpired between the two suppliers this year and last year.

I would normally say team/car because pit stops and reliability cause more drivers to win or lose as a direct result of a good or bad pit stop or mechanical failure of some part of the car.

Drivers are a major part of the equation of course, but even the best driver cannot win without a good car and, good rubber, just look at what happened to Big Red last year as a perfect example of this....

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I believe the car and the team are the most oimportant factrs and I'm happy I'm not alone at this conviction... I thinka great driver on an awful car cant do much, but the opposite (a bad driver on an amazing car) can do miracles :P

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Indeed Jem. JV was a great champion but his fans are somewhat fanatical and its sad because it gives the great man a bad name.

To be fair, I casually compared Kubica rookie's pace to a WDC veteran in the same car to demonstrate technology has reduced the driver input in today's F1. Someone else chose to turn this into a JV thing, which in turn goads people into defending the guy. I don't see how any of my comments should be construed to be anything more then they are.

Cav seems intent to spin everything into a JV bash. I don't know why and I don't care. Seems like a waste of energy to me. JV isn't in F1 anymore, and I seriously do not understand Cav's motives to suggest I am some how defending JV with my recent comment. I think I former WDC veteran(in this case JV) and a rookie(Kubica) performing similiarily with the same machinary is a valid comparison on how much technology play in todays results. This is dead on topic with the thread. If there is a better case comparison then those two to demonstrate my point, I don't know who it would be. Seems to me I was presenting a reasonable example, and then Cav puts the old spin on it , and reads a bunch of stuff between the lines that was never actually said or implied and turns it into a JV thing. Too bad really

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I was just talking about our friend kenneth here. Your posts I agreed with, I think.

Hmm that does sound suspicious. Maybe I should check that...

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To be fair, I casually compared Kubica rookie's pace to a WDC veteran in the same car to demonstrate technology has reduced the driver input in today's F1. Someone else chose to turn this into a JV thing, which in turn goads people into defending the guy. I don't see how any of my comments should be construed to be anything more then they are.

Cav seems intent to spin everything into a JV bash. I don't know why and I don't care. Seems like a waste of energy to me. JV isn't in F1 anymore, and I seriously do not understand Cav's motives to suggest I am some how defending JV with my recent comment. I think I former WDC veteran(in this case JV) and a rookie(Kubica) performing similiarily with the same machinary is a valid comparison on how much technology play in todays results. This is dead on topic with the thread. If there is a better case comparison then those two to demonstrate my point, I don't know who it would be. Seems to me I was presenting a reasonable example, and then Cav puts the old spin on it , and reads a bunch of stuff between the lines that was never actually said or implied and turns it into a JV thing. Too bad really

Some of us understood your post to mean what you intended and indeed most of the posters on this forum agree with your contention that the cars are far too easy to drive nowadays. Your providing Kubica's stunning debut form as an example is a good one. Equally, you could have pointed to Rosberg's drive in Bahrain. Whichever the example, the argument is a valid one: if a rookie can step into a car and perform at the top level, say within a few tenths of a WDC, the cars are too easy to drive. Peter Windsor said the same thing but the WDC he was speaking of was Michael Schumacher!

Good post, YHR :thbup:

Edited by bajo39

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Some of us understood your post to mean what you intended and indeed most of the posters on this forum agree with your contention that the cars are far too easy to drive nowadays. Your providing Kubica's stunning debut form as an example is a good one. Equally, you could have pointed to Rosberg's drive in Bahrain. Whichever the example, the argument is a valid one: if a rookie can step into a car and perform at the top level, say within a few tenths of a WDC, the cars are too easy to drive. Peter Windsor said the same thing but the WDC he was speaking of was Michael Schumacher!

Good post, YHR :thbup:

Ditto. Fine post. :thbup:

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You kind of contradicted yourself. You are critical of my comments that FM would be challenging for the WDC in a Ferrari if MS wasn't there, and then you go and spout the exact same viewpoint with your views on Massa next year.??????

No I didn't, I said Massa will be close to the Finn, possibly ahead, definitely closer than many people expect. You are still to explain how Massa would have been challenging for the WDC if Michael wasn't there - that would imply he would have been right behind Michael or up with him most of the time, which he hasn't.

To be fair, I casually compared Kubica rookie's pace to a WDC veteran in the same car to demonstrate technology has reduced the driver input in today's F1. Someone else chose to turn this into a JV thing, which in turn goads people into defending the guy. I don't see how any of my comments should be construed to be anything more then they are.

No because it is a completely incorrect example, because JV has not been driving at a WDC level for ages, not since he was beaten by a young Button at the very least. ie he isn ot a benchmark of a top driver, I woul consider him a lower mid field driver, I would expect a good rookie to be competitive against his performance. You could have chosen Heidfeld, a driver who actually beat his teammate last year for comparison. JV is no benchmark, I see the point you are making and I partially agree with it, but you try to prove it with statements like Massa would have been challenging for a WDC this year or that JV is a benchmark as an ex WDC.

Cav seems intent to spin everything into a JV bash.
No, however I shall take every oppurtunity to criticise him, as I despise him.
I think I former WDC veteran(in this case JV) and a rookie(Kubica) performing similiarily with the same machinary is a valid comparison on how much technology play in todays results.

No, it simply shows you that JV was well past it (corroborated by the fact that no team boss took any interest in him). How do you explain the huge disparities in points scored for example among most teams? The gap is a few tenths, a second at most, but it is there. And it is crucial.

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Some of us understood your post to mean what you intended and indeed most of the posters on this forum agree with your contention that the cars are far too easy to drive nowadays. Your providing Kubica's stunning debut form as an example is a good one. Equally, you could have pointed to Rosberg's drive in Bahrain. Whichever the example, the argument is a valid one: if a rookie can step into a car and perform at the top level, say within a few tenths of a WDC, the cars are too easy to drive. Peter Windsor said the same thing but the WDC he was speaking of was Michael Schumacher!

Good post, YHR :thbup:

I agree that the cars are too easy to drive, but it could also mean, conversely, that finding a a few extra tenths over your team mate becomes more difficult than it was in the past.......just a thought.

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