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Jem of the Shire

Webber Regrets Williams Move

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Webber laments stint at Williams

Mark Webber ends his two-year spell with Williams in Brazil this weekend admitting he made "a costly mistake" in joining the team.

The Australian was advised by manager and Renault team boss Flavio Briatore not to sign for Williams.

Webber, who joins Red Bull next year, says he should have heeded the advice.

"Flavio was never keen for me to go to Williams and I know I made a costly mistake by not listening to him," said the 30-year-old.

"He was very keen for me to go to Red Bull next season, so I wasn't going to ignore his advice a second time.

"It's a joint management decision and one we all think is the best option for my career. We've rolled the dice so now we just have to see how it tumbles."

Webber joined Williams from Jaguar in 2005 but has seen the team slip down the field to eighth in the constructors' title.

He is languishing in 15th in the drivers' championship after only finishing seven of the 18 rounds in the run-up to Sunday's season finale in Brazil, with a best of sixth in San Marino and Bahrain.

Reminiscing on his time at Williams, Webber told the Sydney Morning Herald: "I think it's fairly safe to say I won't be looking back with any fond memories.

"When I signed with the team, I was hoping to stay at Williams for a long, long time, but it wasn't to be.

"Frank (Williams) will probably look back at me and think it wasn't successful either.

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I agree with Webber. Originally it loooked like a really good move. Webber had options to move to Renault and Williams and he chose the team with the massive experiance and proven record. Unfortunatly it was deffenatly the wrong move as he could have been driving a Renault in 2005 and 2006 and we all know how good those cars were.

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I agree with Webber. Originally it loooked like a really good move. Webber had options to move to Renault and Williams and he chose the team with the massive experiance and proven record. Unfortunatly it was deffenatly the wrong move as he could have been driving a Renault in 2005 and 2006 and we all know how good those cars were.

but to be honest if he did become a renault driver he'd probably be in the same situation as fisichella

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but to be honest if he did become a renault driver he'd probably be in the same situation as fisichella

Maybe. I guess we will never know. But i do rate Webber as a better driver than Fisichella.

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I find it odd how Webber's move to a team coincides with the teams decline in performance. Is it a coincidence?

In 2004, his final year at Jaguar, "Webbo" scored 7 points. Jaguar were sold in to Red Bull November that year. The RBR 2005 car that got it's first competitive outing in March 2005 was the same car, except now a year behind, that Webber raced the year before, but Coulthard managed to get 24 points in it.

This suggests two non-mutually exclusive points: one, Coulthard is brilliant, two, Webber is crap.

Looking at this year Webber has a grand total of 7 points (so far) and his rookie team mate has 4 (plus a string of stupid mistakes that have cost him a lot more points). One again the same two possibilities: his team-mate is great, Webber is crap. Do you see a common theme developing?

Now, 2003 at Jaguar he scored 17 points, and in 2005 at Williams he got a very respectable 36 points, but when you look at his results it shows that any team he is at have a drop in results once he's been there a year.

Is Webber consistently unlucky, or just not very good. I'd say not very good, and the results suggest that he's very poor at car development.

If he gets his arse kicked when he's back at Jaguar-renamed-Red Bull Racing I suspect he'll retire before the end of the season.

Seems like a really nice bloke though.

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Welcome Ptolemy. Nice name. FWIW I think Webber is a reasonable driver, nothing amazing, and the declines you point out are probably coincidences.

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Webbo has never impressed me, he got lucky one time in a Minardi and then everyone thought he was the $hit, well he was $hit..................

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yeah a driver doesnt cause a teams downfall. Williams and BMW were having their own issues which had nothing to do with the drivers. Its the designers and engine people who make the car fast

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Welcome Ptolemy. Top name :thbup: Amusing observations about Webbo. I don't think he's anything special, but he's not bad either. Journeyman springs to mind. He'll have a respectable career (probably with some wins)without setting the world alight. A sort of Thierry Boutsen for the 21st century.

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Webbo has never impressed me, he got lucky one time in a Minardi and then everyone thought he was the $hit, well he was $hit..................

He had an impressive year in 2003 - but thats about it in my eyes. The times that he did well in 2005, his team-mate was 1 place ahead doing even better

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Yeah like Malaysia and Monaco...

Ralf and Fisi taking him out didn't help Nick look good there, and the bullcrap pitstop that Nick got to get apst Mark whilst he was held up behind Alonso...

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Thanks to you all for the welcome - always a bit worrying starting off with criticism of a generally nice bloke - sometimes people take it as a personal affront.

My thoughts all of your comment are

Pumpdoc - totally agree - except I'm not sure he was ever lucky at Minardi - I've had a suspicion for a while that the Minardi was a half decent car and its drivers let it down.

Jemstride - what problems are BMW having currently? - after binning Villeneuve (which I thought would be a mistake) they're doing rather well - as for Webber causing the downfall of a team - bad results mean loss of sponsorship - loss of sponsorship means loss of staff and development - means loss of performance - means bad result. Jaguar had the might and money of Ford behind it and look what happened there.

Monza gorilla (now that is a good name) - journeyman? nearing the end of his journey I'd say - he was 30 a couple of months ago - when there are the likes of Alonso, Kubica, Rosberg, possibly Vittel (spelling?), Hamilton) the emphasis is on youth (and probably smaller experienced related pay packets).

I repeat (just so I can say "told you so" later) if he doesn't perform at RBR he'll be leaving early.

PS - What's so great about "Ptolemy" - are you all history buffs?

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You are only the second living (I assume you are alive!) person I know of to use the name. Rarity value. Nothing to do with dead Egyptians.

On topic, I'll stick with the Boutsen comparison.

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Webber might have done well to have a little chat with Ralf and Monty to see why they were leaving Williams before going there. That, and listening a little bit more to Flav's direction. Anyhow hindsight is 20/20. Had he chosen to go to Renault I suspect he might be in the same boat Fisi was in for the last two years, Alonso is better period.

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but to be honest if he did become a renault driver he'd probably be in the same situation as fisichella

I agree that he would have been eclipsed by the superior Spaniard but probably not to the extent that the Italian was. In any case, this could be forgiven and he would have landed in the number one spot at Renault. All in all, I think it was the wrong move...

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but to be honest if he did become a renault driver he'd probably be in the same situation as fisichella

I agree.

Welcome Ptolemy. Top name :thbup: Amusing observations about Webbo. I don't think he's anything special, but he's not bad either. Journeyman springs to mind. He'll have a respectable career (probably with some wins)without setting the world alight. A sort of Thierry Boutsen for the 21st century.

:clap3:

I agree that he would have been eclipsed by the superior Spaniard but probably not to the extent that the Italian was. In any case, this could be forgiven and he would have landed in the number one spot at Renault. All in all, I think it was the wrong move...

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it? He seems overly bitter to me. Why is he so keen to aportion all of the blame on his team? You win and lose together. His exit from Team Willy is not a gracious one. You made a mistake Mark, live with it.

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...I don't think he's anything special, but he's not bad either. Journeyman springs to mind. He'll have a respectable career (probably with some wins)without setting the world alight..

I knew there was something else I wanted to say.

Which team is Webber going to get his wins with? Since the start of the 2004 season the only teams to have been race winners are Ferrari, Renault and McLaren - with a couple of very lucky showings by Williams and Honda. Although a Newey designed Red Bull-Renault is an unknown quantity it's expecting a lot for Webber to get their maiden victory and if he doesn't shine at RBR who will want him after that? Super Aguri will be set with Sato (unless Japan can find another driver) and Davidson, he's too old for Torro Rosso - maybe Spyker will want him - if he's lucky (which he usually isn't).

My prediction for Webber's Brazilian GP is showered and giving interviews by lap 35. Good job he's not paid by the hour.

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You are only the second living (I assume you are alive!) person I know of to use the name. Rarity value. Nothing to do with dead Egyptians.

Just as a point of pedantry Ptolemy is a Greek (well hellenic) name.

name

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But one also used by the Ptolemaic Egyptian dynasties. So I'm right either way you look at it. :D

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Wecome Ptolemy.

You sure have come out fighting :D

Webber has just been in the wrong place at the wrong time it's as simple as that. He has admitted that Flavio didn't want him to sign for Williams but I think the whole Alan Jones won with Williams thing played on this heart a little bit more than it should of.

Webber is not a driver that will whinge for the sake of whinging he freely admits when he has made a mistake as he has done so in the interview above.

I'm not claiming Webber is the best thing since sliced Bread but he has many quality years left in the sport no doubt. Here is a driver that has fought tooth and nail to get to the pinnacle of world motorsport he won't make the same mistake twice.

My prediction for 2007 is: Webber will out qualify DC and out race him to be offered the 2008 Renault race seat alongside HK.

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But one also used by the Ptolemaic Egyptian dynasties. So I'm right either way you look at it.

Not really, Ptolemaios Sator, the founder of the Ptolemaic empire was one of Alexander's generals - so it's still Greek. Cleopatra, for example, is Greek for "Glory-of-my-father". They were all Greek. Sorry, I am a history buff - which explains the name - a point any future children may really come to regret.

*****

Hi aussief1

I'm not trying to fight - I just think what I'm saying (writing) is obvious and I've thought so for quite a while. Webber's performance at Williams has done absolutely nothing to change my view and I'm amazed that some people haven't noticed the factors - people like Christian Horner for instance.

Undoubtedly anyone in F1 (or any top flight sport, motorised or otherwise) has slogged their guts out to get there and made sacrifices that most normal people would say "f**k that" to - but this doesn't necessitate ability - indeed Webber may be where he is because he was willing to do things while more talented drivers opted for a proper job and stable life.

We'll have to see how he goes at RBR, but is it possible that national pride has more to do with with your view than realistic expectation? I've never seen anything in Webber that suggests he's anything other than a occasional point scorer - with those occasions becoming very scarce. Coulthard (who I've never been a fan of until he moved to RBR) is a consistent point scorer, frequently against the odds. I'm sure he's going to make Webbo look even more average than I think he is.

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Not really, Ptolemaios Sator, the founder of the Ptolemaic empire was one of Alexander's generals - so it's still Greek. Cleopatra, for example, is Greek for "Glory-of-my-father". They were all Greek. Sorry, I am a history buff - which explains the name - a point any future children may really come to regret.

Unless you argue geographic location. For instance, the term 'Jew' has two meanings 1) A person of the tribe of Judah 2) A person living in the geographical area known as Judea. Hence was Paul a Benjamite (tribe of Benjamin), a Hebrew by ethnicity, and a 'Jew' by location (lived in Judea). In that same vein, the Macedonian general Ptolemy, after taking residence in Egypt, would be called 'Egyptian'. :D

I'm not trying to fight - I just think what I'm saying (writing) is obvious and I've thought so for quite a while. Webber's performance at Williams has done absolutely nothing to change my view and I'm amazed that some people haven't noticed the factors - people like Christian Horner for instance.

I believe that Webber comes with the engines, no? Horner probably had precious little to say about it.

Welcome, btw! Fiery posters are always welcome!

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