Webber Regrets Williams Move

[aussief1 4]

Hi aussief1

I'm not trying to fight - I just think what I'm saying (writing) is obvious and I've thought so for quite a while. Webber's performance at Williams has done absolutely nothing to change my view and I'm amazed that some people haven't noticed the factors - people like Christian Horner for instance.

Undoubtedly anyone in F1 (or any top flight sport, motorised or otherwise) has slogged their guts out to get there and made sacrifices that most normal people would say "f**k that" to - but this doesn't necessitate ability - indeed Webber may be where he is because he was willing to do things while more talented drivers opted for a proper job and stable life.

We'll have to see how he goes at RBR, but is it possible that national pride has more to do with with your view than realistic expectation? I've never seen anything in Webber that suggests he's anything other than a occasional point scorer - with those occasions becoming very scarce. Coulthard (who I've never been a fan of until he moved to RBR) is a consistent point scorer, frequently against the odds. I'm sure he's going to make Webbo look even more average than I think he is.

It's all good mate

My comment about him fighting tooth and nail to get to Formula One is based on no Australian companies backing the bloke. (apart from yellow pages which threw him a couple of dollars)

I agree we will have to wait and see how MW performs next year at RBR against a seasoned professional in DC. It will either make MW or back up your arguement against him.

Form an unprejudiced appraisal of MW next year, he might just prove you wrong.

Peace

[dribbler 6]

[quote name='aussief1' post='147718' date='Oct 19 2006, 11:30 PM']I'm not claiming Webber is the best thing since sliced Bread but he has many quality years left in the sport[/quote]


Ah, who could forget the drives by sliced bread.......

[Autumnpuma 0]

mmmmmmmmmmmmm....Weber's sliced bread......

[Jem of the Shire 0]

But not if they dont agree with me.

no-one agrees with you

[Sato 0]

I do... sometimes..... Maybe not next year with Webber Vs DC though

[monza gorilla 1]

Not really, Ptolemaios Sator, the founder of the Ptolemaic empire was one of Alexander's generals - so it's still Greek. Cleopatra, for example, is Greek for "Glory-of-my-father". They were all Greek. Sorry, I am a history buff - which explains the name - a point any future children may really come to regret.

You seem to be claiming that anyone called Ptolemy must be Greek (BTW, I didn't claim it to be an Egyptian name, just that my post had nothing to do with dead Egyptians). I stand by my post!

Your future children will have an interesting upbringing.

[Ptolemy 0]

Unless you argue geographic location....

I understand you're meaning, but I don't think the geography is the entirety of the matter. Culture and ethntity are important aspects.

The Ptolemies - the ruling dynasty of Egypt until the death of Cleopatra (as in Anthony and...) were renowned for the their pale skin and blue eyes - as trait that was associated with Greeks prior to the 400 hundred year occupation by the Ottomans.

Apart from that the worship of Greek gods flourished, as did the use of Greek script while hieroglyphs declined - The Rosetta stone for instance bears ancient hieroglyphs, a younger simpler version and Greek - because Greek was the official language of the "pharohs" - although the Ptolemies called themselves king not pharoh.

In short, if the entire population of Japan move Bolivia but continued to speak Japanese and practise Japanese culture it doesn't make them Hispanic. It not so clear cut with the classical emigrations as acknowledging the resident culture played an important part in not being murdered in your bed. Take Roman Britain, for instance - baths, spoke Latin, togas, temples, there was a mixing of gods, but the overwhelming cultural identity was Roman.

[ykickamoocow 0]

no-one agrees with you

Then everyone should leave the forum barring me. I can have some conversations with myself.

[Ptolemy 0]

I believe that Webber comes with the engines, no? Horner probably had precious little to say about it.

When I first read that I thought "yeah, that explains a lot", but now I'm not so sure.

Webber is managed by a company that Flavio runs. OK.

Flavio works for the RenaultF1 Team, true.

Renault will be supplying engines to RBR, also an indisputable fact.

But the Renault F1 engine manufacturer is not the same company as RenaultF1.

So does Flavio have the authority or the ability to ensure that his client is part of the deal?

Flavio is happy to talk (albeit rather incoherently) about the engine deal, but was he actually involved in it?

Surely the Renault engine people want to see their product put it its best use, and would they be willing to compromise that for the sake of Flavio's management company's customer? I can't see that myself.

My conclusion remains unchanged - Webber is crap. Red Bull have chosen him.

[monza gorilla 1]

I really don't think he (Webber) had many options. The paddock didn't seem to be beating a path to his door.

[Chris Strange 0]

I really don't think he (Webber) had many options. The paddock didn't seem to be beating a path to his door.

Indeed and it is doubtful he'll have more success at Red Bull. The fact that Flavio B didn't sign him at Renault speaks for itself.

[Ptolemy 0]

I really don't think he (Webber) had many options. The paddock didn't seem to be beating a path to his door.

Yes, but I'd have thought that Red Bull did.

It's only my speculation, but I'd have thought a Newey chassis, good engines (Renault or Ferrari) and Red Bull's bank account is an attractive package. I was surprised (and disappointed) that Montoya opted for driving round in circles in a taxi instead of choosing RBR (if the rumours were true).

RBR have looked very good, DC did well in 2005, and a podium at Monaco this year, plus their interest in promoting young drivers - I'd have thought they'd have gone for someone more like Kubica to partner the very experienced (old) Coulthard. Instead they choose someone nearing the end of a not very illustrious career.

I don't get it, but that might be why I'm not running an F1 team.

[monza gorilla 1]

I suppose it's a case of just who was out of contract. As for bringing on young drivers, isn't that what Toro Rosso is for?

[Ptolemy 0]

... As for bringing on young drivers, isn't that what Toro Rosso is for?

Yes, but if they're not progressing to the big boys team where are they supposed to go? Stay at TR until retirement? I had assumed that TR drivers would do a year - either shine and move up or disappear to be replaced by a new hotshot. Instead it's Liuzzi and Speed (what an inappropriate name) again.

Of course my surprise is based on my apparently erroneous assumption, but I'm still surprised they didn't promote from the junior team instead of choosing Webbo (sounds like an Aussie version of Spiderman).

[monza gorilla 1]

Yes, it is odd that the supposed junior team isn't promoting drivers to the mother ship. Maybe they only get promoted if they're any good, and neither Speed or Liuzzi strike me as anything special. But if they're no good, why are they kept on? With Speed (aka Captain Slow) it must, of course, be a marketing device but what of Liuzzi? More questions than answers, as usual. did RBR approach Webber, or was it Flavio approaching RBR? I don't recall.

[Ptolemy 0]

Your comment about Speed and marketing may also explain Webber's signing.

How big is Red Bull in Oz, and are they looking for a higher profile?

[monza gorilla 1]

Good point. Maybe some our Australian members can help.

[ykickamoocow 0]

How big is Red Bull in Oz, and are they looking for a higher profile?

Good point. Maybe some our Australian members can help.

Red Bull is already a established brand in Australia. They have a regular add campaign and everyone is well aware of Red Bull

[Ptolemy 0]

...they have a regular add campaign...

So that means they are looking to raise their profile and increase sales. I'm sure Webbo driving a big Red Bull can (or probably talking to reporters in the pit lane wearing the overalls by lap 35) has the same result, and proably works out cheaper - tv air time is very expensive, while they've got Webber to wave their flag for a whole season.

[cavallino 2]

Don't see how they can raise sales much there, maybe get some kids off the local energy drink stuff to RB?

[Ptolemy 0]

maybe get some kids off the local energy drink stuff to RB?

Surely that would raise sales then. But I'd guess that Red Bull really to try aim at a more adult market - they're the people with money.

Get the Aussie blokes of the beer and on to RB. Pubs are a big part of Aussie life (or they were when I was there) and a bit of customer indentification with "top bloke Webbo" might put a few dollars in Red Bull's pockets.

[cavallino 2]

aren't that many kids here. small market.

[Ptolemy 0]

aren't that many kids here. small market.

You're talking about kids. I'm not. Besides, what's Australia's popilation 22 million, 25? What's the age demographic? Lots of "kids" (under 30s) looking for energy for an out door life.

According to your info "here" is India????

[pabloh20 1]

You're talking about kids. I'm not.

According to your info "here" is India????

Think he might be referring to here as in F1 circles.

[cavallino 2]

nah sorry here as in Oz, I am here for another month or so.

My intuitive understanding is people who would drink it already do so.