schumisuckssssssss

The Red Car Rule

22 posts in this topic

:thbdn::thbdn::thbdn:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17670.html

OCTOBER 20, 2006

The red car rule

There has long been a joke in F1 circles that Ferrari can get away with whatever it pleases because of a mythical FIA regulation which is called "The Red Car Rule". Read any F1 forum and you will see endless references to the fact that the FIA and Ferrari are seen to be too close.

The announcement that Ferrari will be allowed to supply two teams with engines in 2008 is not going to help this perception. Article 43 of the 2008 FIA Sporting Regulations states that "a major car manufacturer may not directly or indirectly supply engines for more than two teams of two cars each without the consent of the FIA". The rule goes on to define a major car manufacturer as "a company whose shares are quoted on a recognised stock exchange or the subsidiary of such a company". The FIA has now ruled that "Ferrari's request to supply two teams with engines in the 2008 championship has been accepted". This presumably means that Ferrari will supply itself and two customers and thus will have engines in six cars.

Shares in Ferrari are not quoted on a major stock exchange - the plan for that was aborted in June - but its parent company, at least according to the FIAT website, is FIAT and the Italian giant says it is listed "on the Italian Stock Exchange (Borsa Italiana), and on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) through American Depositary Receipts". Thus Ferrari qualifies as a major manufacturer. One can perhaps argue that there are holding companies involved but as FIAT itself admits that it owns Ferrari, then they should not be allowed to gain an advantage when most of the time they are only too keen to claim ownership of the team.

Having established this, one has to ask why Ferrari should be allowed to supply more teams than others as it will mean a material benefit given that there is now a testing restriction which means that a team running six cars will get more information than a team running four engines. This is the problem that has developed in recent years in NASCAR where the big teams gain an advantage by doing more tests and thus drive the smaller operations out of business.

It is also a disastrous announcement for Cosworth because it means that there is now almost no chance of an engine deal in the future. The aim of the rule changes was to protect the smaller companies in F1 - at least that was one of the stated aims - but the reality is that Cosworth is being driven out of the sport because it cannot subsidise its engines as the other teams do. Ferrari, on the other hand, is being allowed to subsidise its engines by selling more to others.

Worst of all, however, is the fact that the new ruling means that the perception of the FIA being too close to Ferrari is strengthened rather than weakened. And that is no good for anyone in the sport.

In addition..........

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_new...es_art_id=28250

Why Ferrari always gains extra benefits from FIA??? The wheel cover, Massa Monza lies, ..........

By the way,

Fcuk Ferrari.........

Fcuk Schumi........

:thbdn::thbdn::thbdn:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:thbdn::thbdn::thbdn:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17670.html

OCTOBER 20, 2006

The red car rule

There has long been a joke in F1 circles that Ferrari can get away with whatever it pleases because of a mythical FIA regulation which is called "The Red Car Rule". Read any F1 forum and you will see endless references to the fact that the FIA and Ferrari are seen to be too close.

The announcement that Ferrari will be allowed to supply two teams with engines in 2008 is not going to help this perception. Article 43 of the 2008 FIA Sporting Regulations states that "a major car manufacturer may not directly or indirectly supply engines for more than two teams of two cars each without the consent of the FIA". The rule goes on to define a major car manufacturer as "a company whose shares are quoted on a recognised stock exchange or the subsidiary of such a company". The FIA has now ruled that "Ferrari's request to supply two teams with engines in the 2008 championship has been accepted". This presumably means that Ferrari will supply itself and two customers and thus will have engines in six cars.

Shares in Ferrari are not quoted on a major stock exchange - the plan for that was aborted in June - but its parent company, at least according to the FIAT website, is FIAT and the Italian giant says it is listed "on the Italian Stock Exchange (Borsa Italiana), and on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) through American Depositary Receipts". Thus Ferrari qualifies as a major manufacturer. One can perhaps argue that there are holding companies involved but as FIAT itself admits that it owns Ferrari, then they should not be allowed to gain an advantage when most of the time they are only too keen to claim ownership of the team.

Having established this, one has to ask why Ferrari should be allowed to supply more teams than others as it will mean a material benefit given that there is now a testing restriction which means that a team running six cars will get more information than a team running four engines. This is the problem that has developed in recent years in NASCAR where the big teams gain an advantage by doing more tests and thus drive the smaller operations out of business.

It is also a disastrous announcement for Cosworth because it means that there is now almost no chance of an engine deal in the future. The aim of the rule changes was to protect the smaller companies in F1 - at least that was one of the stated aims - but the reality is that Cosworth is being driven out of the sport because it cannot subsidise its engines as the other teams do. Ferrari, on the other hand, is being allowed to subsidise its engines by selling more to others.

Worst of all, however, is the fact that the new ruling means that the perception of the FIA being too close to Ferrari is strengthened rather than weakened. And that is no good for anyone in the sport.

In addition..........

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_new...es_art_id=28250

Why Ferrari always gains extra benefits from FIA??? The wheel cover, Massa Monza lies, ..........

By the way,

Fcuk Ferrari.........

Fcuk Schumi........

:thbdn::thbdn::thbdn:

Welcome. May i be the first to tell you to **** off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Welcome. May i be the first to tell you to **** off.

Its a legit article. The FIA have let Ferrari brake the rules again. Also its not like either Torro Rosso or Red Bull even want Ferrari engines next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Welcome. May i be the first to tell you to **** off.

If Pump is gone for a week for what he said.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great article....

:thbup:

This only shows the name FIArrari is for real....

Scuderia FIArrari should be the new name!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If Pump is gone for a week for what he said.....

Nope, you are allowed to tell people to f$%k off.

Been a while since we had a new troll, though something tells me this one is a reincarnation.

The article of course is complete rubbish, and no surprise considering its dubious origins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nope, you are allowed to tell people to f$%k off.

Been a while since we had a new troll, though something tells me this one is a reincarnation.

The article of course is complete rubbish, and no surprise considering its dubious origins.

It looks that FIArrari fans cant face the truth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

new troll meet old troll, old troll meet new troll I hope you two have a lovely time together :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
new troll meet old troll, old troll meet new troll I hope you two have a lovely time together :rolleyes:

The only troll here is you as you cant face the truth - you're blinded by a FIArrari and that's why your posts are partial and have no purpose at all.

Edited by UrKo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see that the people on this forum are intelligent enough to come up with constructive posts. They ALL have a point. I would rather my posts had no point than they were all aimed at disrupting the reputation of a racing team.

As has been said before - **** off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Racing team????

You mean cheating team!

as u only have 2 posts i think u're too much of a greenhorn.

btw... :welcome:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Its a legit article. The FIA have let Ferrari brake the rules again. Also its not like either Torro Rosso or Red Bull even want Ferrari engines next year.

how do you know it's a legit site? it herdly mosts up f1 news on it and is quiote a shady site

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh...i

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nope, you are allowed to tell people to f$%k off.

Been a while since we had a new troll, though something tells me this one is a reincarnation.

The article of course is complete rubbish, and no surprise considering its dubious origins.

Wait now, Cav. I know you dislike grandprix.com, but have Ferrari been given permission to supply engines to 2 customer teams? If so, does this not violate the spirit, if not the actual wording, of the regulations? Does this not seem like preferential treatment to Ferrari by the FIA?

Despite the website, the news is correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The only troll here is you as you cant face the truth - you're blinded by a FIArrari and that's why your posts are partial and have no purpose at all.

You can't face the truth that Ferrari simply had better engineering.

There is nothing in the rules saying how many teams an engine supplier can supply. Remember the 1970s? Most teams had Cosworth DFV engines.

Edited by AutoRacer5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, Chris, the article is correct about the 2 team per engine-supply rule. Look it up on the FIA site if you doubt that.

Now, reading the article again, I notice that it says Ferrari have asked to supply 2 teams, not three. I think there is too much speculation going on about this...

...perhaps someone can post an absolute number of teams, in addition to the Ferrari factory team, that are confirmed to be running Ferrari engines in '08.....

Edited by Autumnpuma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it two other teams or two teams in general?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wait now, Cav. I know you dislike grandprix.com, but have Ferrari been given permission to supply engines to 2 customer teams? If so, does this not violate the spirit, if not the actual wording, of the regulations? Does this not seem like preferential treatment to Ferrari by the FIA?

Despite the website, the news is correct.

The news is correct, the way they have presented it isn't. The rule says any team that wants to supply more than one customer team needs FIA approval, Ferrari asked for it and got it. I don't remember any other team making any such request and being refused. The most ridiculous part of it is the claim that it has pushed Cosworth out of the sport, quite ironic considering how a while ago Cosworth was supplying the entire grid part from Ferrari, as anyone without the popular ignorant 'I read it on the internet that Ferrari cheat' perspective on the sport will know (not aimed at you obviously Mike, but some nameless people in this thread). How the hell is it Ferrari's fault or problem that noone wants to use Cosworth engines? And how long ago was it when Ferrari was supplying Prost and Sauber, how the bloody hell is it the end of the world if it happens again? Cosworth had a great era, but that's over, pity but we move on.

The approval is to supply Spyker and presumably STR.

That site is run by a bunch of vindictive b#####ds, they want Massa disqualified because someone handed him a flag. Fine him by all means warn him whatever, but seriously :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed on Massa and the flag issue. He's violated the rules, but fine him or something...don't take away his victory in front of his home crowd....that would be low.

Thanks for the clarification on the engine supply. The key point is that no other manufacturer asked to supply more than two teams. Cav, you are correct that it's not the FIA's fault if teams want the unbreakable Ferrari engine.

Personally, I would take the Cosworth over the Ferrari. No Ferrari customer team has ever been equal to the factory team, whereas all Cosworth lumps are pretty much equal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed on Massa and the flag issue. He's violated the rules, but fine him or something...don't take away his victory in front of his home crowd....that would be low.

Thanks for the clarification on the engine supply. The key point is that no other manufacturer asked to supply more than two teams. Cav, you are correct that it's not the FIA's fault if teams want the unbreakable Ferrari engine.

Personally, I would take the Cosworth over the Ferrari. No Ferrari customer team has ever been equal to the factory team, whereas all Cosworth lumps are pretty much equal.

Mike and Cav areeing on an issue, now i have seen everything. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cav, you are correct that it's not the FIA's fault if teams want the unbreakable Ferrari engine.

It's just not that I think, I feel Ferrari need the engine deals, while Ferrari are commercially comfortable, they are constantly on the lookout for new commercial deals, and they have to brace for the post Schumi era when (temporarily hopefully) the name loses that little bit of sheen. It doesn't seem like the other manufacturers are really bothered for the small gains that you get from supplying engines. The other factor perhaps is political support - Ferrari are never going to get any. People love to cite that no Ferrari customer engined car has won a race, but how many other manufacturer owned (owned and not supported) teams have even bothered to supply engines, at least in recent times, and which one has done it for a competitive team? That is why the Williams deal is unusual, and leads me to believe that there might be something more behind it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now